Fleet Farm sold

[Bowsnbucks]

That's admirable, Bill, if none of the employees had to take a pay cut where you were involved. That's great. But sadly, that does happen in too many places and all the employees did was show up for work - do their job - and still got shafted. I realize we won't sterilize the world of greedy slobs who only see numbers. But if none of us ever speaks up, or tries to shed light on those kinds of problems - I think we're allowing it to continue unabated, and falling into the trap of thinking " why should I care ? - I got mine. " Sooner or later ....... someone will look at us and our situation and say " why should I care ? - I got mine. "

I read an article probably 15 years ago about the PolarTec fleece company up in Mass. I believe. The factory burned and the owner wondered if he'd be able to rebuild and keep the company going. Unknown to the employees at first, he kept their pay coming. The employees were so overwhelmed by the owner's goodness and concern, they told him not to worry - they'd help rebuild. They all came in and worked night and day cleaning machinery, ordering material, helping with paperwork, - whatever it took. Within months, the factory was up and running again and the owner had kept their pay coming the whole time. When interviewed, many employees said they were so moved by the owner's concern for them, keeping their pay coming, they had to show their appreciation and get his company back in business. Success all around, and loyalty from all the employees to the owner who cared.

Just think how good things could be if we all looked after each other like that. Before someone makes a Kumbaya comment or says " group hug " - if it was OUR families' welfare on the line, how would we feel then ??

Obviously not all businessmen are bad guys. Just too many bad guys out there with too much control on purse-strings. And they have too much influence on our whole economy. God bless the good ones !!!

 

[Bill]

I hear you BUT don't misunderstand me.

I don't want to make people here think I'm a kissy, huggy, take care of the masses kinda guy.

I've worked with lots of "good" people who were terrible employees.

When we made those acquisitions my favorite job was "firing" people.

I know that sounds harsh. I've told people that and they look at me like I'm some kind of satin creature. :) :(

The first person I ever had to fire was a pregnant 19 year old girl with no husband. I felt like crap and it took me a week to get up the nerve.

But then her replacement showed up and busted her a$$ to make the company succeed.

It was a life changing moment for me. I could have felt bad for the useless pregnant girl and put everyone's job in jeaporty. Or I could man up and send her packing to save many families.

From that day on I decided firing one saved many. Deep down I hope firing that one led them to door that gave them success.

If not, it wasn't my concern. The employees that understood what we were doing counted more.

I know that sounds hard. But the world is full of needy people who hope all they have to do is show up.

If anyone needs a hatchet man I'm retired but......I'll work for tree stands and such.

 

[Reagan]

Bowsnbucks,

Can you tell me what is the purpose of a company? Is it to provide jobs? Something else? I'd love to hear your opinion.




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[wiscwhip]

so the difference between 40k/year ff employee/400k/year snot nosed b school shlup and a 40 million /year ceo would be education, hours and stool hardness.

Think what you want, but that CEO isn't 1,000 times more important to any company than an 40k a year "floor employee", I don't give crap how much edjumacshun he has or how much BS he puts up with. Could he produce the product and profit of 1,000 of his employees? No way in hell! Most of them are lying, crooked hacks who hand-jobbed their way to the top and the middle-tier guys making 10 times less than him are the ones saving his ass every day and making him look good, in almost every single case. Those middle-tier guys would likely take that position for the same pay they earn in mid-management and kick the CEO's ass as far as work performance goes. Again, if the CEO man can't handle the extreme, explosive bowel pressure you speak of, maybe HE should step down and take a no pressure shop floor job for that 40k a year and at the end of the day he could just punch out, go home, and proceed to drink his 18 cans of Anheuser swill and breed his fat wife, forgetting all about the "pressures of the day". I have NO problem with someone getting rich, but this shit has gone too far, 10 times, even 100 times the "workers salary" is one thing, but 1,000 times what your average employee is making..........ridiculous and uncalled for. Greed, plain and simple.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I am also college educated. ( and graduated ) I know fully what the value of education is ......... and by the way........... hard work. I've done plenty of it for over 35 years in my field. Nobody handed me a thing. Including Mommy & Daddy. I worked gobs of overtime and also did jobs on my own in my field. So don't try to paint me as a kissy, huggy, give everybody a free ride guy either. ( Bill - I wasn't suggesting you were that either !! ) I WILL NOT defend someone who is lazy. Or unqualified for a specific position. If you don't have the skill - you don't have the skill.

And I didn't say ALL MBA's were evil either. You're putting words in my mouth. I was - and am - talking about the types looking to game the system like the " creative accounting " folks I mentioned earlier. And let's not equate hard work with ETHICAL. I've worked for companies that were working extremely hard to finish projects ....... all while short-changing the customers in what they were providing when it came to materials and processes. ( out of sight - out of scrutiny ). Workers fault, no doubt ?? Some of the cheating could have cost someone their life. I quit those 2 companies. One of those places involved the leak of a lethal gas, that once a few breaths are inhaled, you cannot be saved. Your bones dissolve inside you. Over several months. All this happened after a Broadway production of a 2-day safety " school " - and alarm lights, bells, and sirens that were all over the facilities for alerting the people of any leaks ( of a variety of gases and chemicals ). When a leak of that lethal gas occurred while I was there, no lights or bells or sirens went off. In fact - all of the " responsible " managers ran outside. Somehow THEY knew of the leak. Thanks be to GOD there was nobody in the labs at the time where the leak occurred. People would have died.

I think some of you guys took what I was saying as " all business people are crooks. " Not so. I stated that in the last sentence of my post #25. A capital system is needed to facilitate business ventures and keep the economy moving. But if anyone denies there are people in the system ( not just 1 or 2 ) that blur the lines of laws and " ethical " behavior, you have blinders on. Loopholes and clauses get written into laws and practices that further blur those lines either incidentally or purposely. When we see whistleblowers get black-balled from their chosen field because they had the ethics to expose problems / hazards / cheating, are we to conclude they should have kept their mouth shut and let the dangerous / deceptive / cheating continue ??

How do you guys feel about the corporate executives who run the businesses into the ground or to the brink of bankruptcy, maybe get fired - or not - and still walk away with huge bonuses and " golden parachute " packages ?? Their golden parachutes come out of OUR investment returns via 401-K's, pensions, mutual funds, Keogh's, 403-B plans, etc. If any of you out there screw up to that degree ( or usually much less ) and you get fired - do you get rewarded by a fat severance package and invitations to appear on CNBC to give financial advice ?? ( Like say, Carly Fiorina ) to mention just one.

Hard, HONEST work should be applauded. Work that involves behind-the-scenes concocting of devious laws and practices for the purposes of enhancing profit at the expense of safety or safeguarding investors' hard-earned savings is at very least unethical. I WILL NOT apologize for standing up for ethical behavior in any field of endeavor. The end - ( profit ) - doesn't always justify the means.

This will end my comments on the subject - for all the " bleeding heart " accusers who claim to be Christians .......... Whose HEART bled for you ?? Was it your hard work or business expertise that earned THAT ????? In this life, what counts ............ more money - or more doing of good / right / ethical ??????

 

[MN Slick]

Bill, what was the end game for the companies you turned around? I've had 1 experience with an equity group that specialized in turn arounds. They came in, cut some bodies, asked the remaining folks take a pay cut for the greater good, promised they were in it for the long term, THEN sold out to a company that "bundled" up our company as soon as the profits returned and dumped 99% of us onto the street. Maybe 3 years was long term for them, hahahahaha. At least I got a severance package........

 

[wiscwhip]

^^^ Nothing more than an old wives tale from the info I have found.

 

[kabic]

^^^ Nothing more than an old wives tale from the info I have found.

Yup one is owned by the Mills family one is owned by the Blain family.

 

[Big Snow Man]

Wow we can tell it's the dead of winter and nothing to do when a Fleet Farm post goes two pages on Corporate America.

 

[wiscwhip]

Thx for the clarification.

I was always under that same impression. I did a little research a while back when they put in the indoor shooting range in at the FF in Brainerd, MN and found out otherwise.

 

[Bill]

Bowsnbucks,
I didn't assume you meant all MBA's where evil. I get exactly what your piont(s) are. I've seen it first hand. I think maybe you misread my postings. For the large majority I agree with your sentiment. I just like to point out that there are still some good big businesses. I've dealt directly with the scummy ones your lambasting.

Bill, what was the end game for the companies you turned around? I've had 1 experience with an equity group that specialized in turn arounds. They came in, cut some bodies, asked the remaining folks take a pay cut for the greater good, promised they were in it for the long term, THEN sold out to a company that "bundled" up our company as soon as the profits returned and dumped 99% of us onto the street. Maybe 3 years was long term for them, hahahahaha. At least I got a severance package........

For us back then the end game was vertical integration. Fancy term for bring more of what you buy outside in house. We started as a cable assembly manufacturer that bought wire and cable, connectors, etc brought them in house and assembled them into something else.

One acquisition was a connector manufacturer this let us then build some of the connectors that we used in our assemblies in house. Eventually led to designing custom product for in house and other outside customers. That led to buying a screw machine house, Which allowed us to turn our own connector shells and contacts. In the end, while it wasn't always cost effective, we had the ability to make an entire assembly in house from winding and jacketing custom cables to manufacturing the connectors that went on them.

Eventually it did go the way Bowsandbucks and you describe. We were approached by a public company that noticed us in the market place. They gave an offer that was stupid and we took it. That's when I really got to see some MBA's operate in the vacumn that was their world. They lost $ from the first month until they spun it off 5 years later. The managers that made the acquisition and the decisions for how to operate the place had long since been promoted and removed from the consequences of their decisions. It was sad really, but they paid for it so it was their baby.

Wow we can tell it's the dead of winter and nothing to do when a Fleet Farm post goes two pages on Corporate America.

Ain't that the truth.

NoFo,
Ask you engineer if she ever heard of Viking electronics? Boeing is a big place so it's doubtful

 

[Tree Spud]

Bowsnbucks,

Can you tell me what is the purpose of a company? Is it to provide jobs? Something else? I'd love to hear your opinion.

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I think Peter Drucker summed it up best ...

If we want to know what a business is, we have to start with its purpose. And the purpose must lie outside the business itself. In fact, it must lie in society, since a business enterprise is an organ of society. There is only one valid definition of business purpose: to create a customer.

The customer is a foundation of a business and keeps it in existence. The customer alone gives employment. And it is to supply the customer that society entrusts wealth-producing resources to the business enterprise.

 

[Reagan]

My answer to my own question was going to be

Serve the customer and produce profit.


I found this on the wiki page for Drucker.

"A company's primary responsibility is to serve its customers. Profit is not the primary goal, but rather an essential condition for the company's continued existence and sustainability."


A company does not exist to provide jobs. Though a good deal of what I read here leads me to believe that many don't agree. Employees need to be productive and help the company. If they work for good people, they will be rewarded for their worth to the company. If they work for idiots, then they will have to live by the decisions made by those idiots. Or they can choose to find another job and a good employer.

If people don't like that, start your own business. It is done every day. Be a leader, take the risk and do it. If you are afraid of leading, quit complaining about those who do it for you.

The owners of FF built a business and sold it. It was their business and their right to sell it. If the new owners run it into the ground, shame on them. If it grows, good for them. But they should never be obligated to keep an employee.

I say this and I am an employee. I hope the owner makes a fortune. I hope my boss makes a fortune. I work hard to help them make their money and I am rewarded for it. If I no longer help in that cause, they should fire me.

It is no wonder Bernie Sanders is so popular. Just look at this thread. Cry for the little guy and bash corporate leaders seems to be getting a lot of support lately.


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[Peeps]

Interesting reads but what do you see as the future of the Fleet Farm stores for the average customer? I think that they will expand to other locations. Recently before the sale I spoke to a "higher up" in the company during unrelated business. Expansion was mentioned and I think this will occure. One such spot that seemed like a real possibility was Iron Mountain Mi. Look to locations such as that for Fleet sores in the future. I believe prices will creep up and some selection will change. Imagine a Fleet/Walmart type store minus the grocery department. I

 

[Steve Bartylla]

Reagan, I completely get what you are saying. Capitalism is built on business and I'm a BIG fan of Capitalism. Here is what is troubling me about today's toxic political environment. Everyone here I'd bet agrees that having fewer and fewer super big organizations owning more and more "small" businesses isn't a good thing. It concentrates wealth disproportionately in fewer and fewer pockets. That doesn't mean that big business is evil or doesn't serve many important/vital purposes, but too much of that just can't be seen as a good thing.

In today's world, we can't even talk about stuff like that without the right pretending big business can do no wrong and the left pretending it can do no right. That's very troubling to me, as constructive conversation is required to get dang near anything important done.

 

[BJE80]

The only fleet i know is in clintonvile and i love it. Will i drive to new london/shawano? Nope. They have a monopoly for 20 miles in any direction. My favorite is the canadian canned jam and old time candy aisle. Tposts, fert, tree wire, license, yep. Sporting goods are low end but 7 minutes away. Besides i get to see locals talking bs about me cuz i aint in the clan. Great entertainment value.

The Clintonville store is one of the smallest in the chain. If you ever get a chance to get in the Antigo store you would be in heaven. The sporting goods department is as big as the entire Clintonville Store itself.

 

[wiscwhip]

I think Peter Drucker summed it up best ...

If we want to know what a business is, we have to start with its purpose. And the purpose must lie outside the business itself. In fact, it must lie in society, since a business enterprise is an organ of society. There is only one valid definition of business purpose: to create a customer.

The customer is a foundation of a business and keeps it in existence. The customer alone gives employment. And it is to supply the customer that society entrusts wealth-producing resources to the business enterprise.

My answer to my own question was going to be

Serve the customer and produce profit.


I found this on the wiki page for Drucker.

"A company's primary responsibility is to serve its customers. Profit is not the primary goal, but rather an essential condition for the company's continued existence and sustainability."


A company does not exist to provide jobs. Though a good deal of what I read here leads me to believe that many don't agree. Employees need to be productive and help the company. If they work for good people, they will be rewarded for their worth to the company. If they work for idiots, then they will have to live by the decisions made by those idiots. Or they can choose to find another job and a good employer.

If people don't like that, start your own business. It is done every day. Be a leader, take the risk and do it. If you are afraid of leading, quit complaining about those who do it for you.

The owners of FF built a business and sold it. It was their business and their right to sell it. If the new owners run it into the ground, shame on them. If it grows, good for them. But they should never be obligated to keep an employee.

I say this and I am an employee. I hope the owner makes a fortune. I hope my boss makes a fortune. I work hard to help them make their money and I am rewarded for it. If I no longer help in that cause, they should fire me.

It is no wonder Bernie Sanders is so popular. Just look at this thread. Cry for the little guy and bash corporate leaders seems to be getting a lot of support lately.


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I'm not sure what the hell the owner of the General Store in Hooterville has to do with any of this, but whatever.....

So, per these "definitions" it is all about the "customers". First off, BS! Secondly, that is a loaded term to some extent, as some would say a "customer" is defined as the end consumer of a product, I think we all get that. Others would say that the stockholders of a company would also be "customers" of that business as well. So now who are we working for and to what end? Are we working to provide the "customers" with a quality product at the lowest price point possible, or are we working to provide the "stockholders" with maximum profits to increase their ROI dollars. The whole "serve the customers" thing really starts to fall apart at this point. Let's muddy the waters a bit further with the whole "customer is king" theory as it pertains to the salaries of some of these large corporate CEO's. Are they reeeeaaalllyyyy looking out for the best interests of "creating and serving" the customers when they take these 400 million dollar per year salaries and giant nest-egg retirement packages? :rolleyes:Really??? :rolleyes:If they would take a more modest compensation for the work they provide, would it not better serve both the "end consumer" customer base and the "stockholder" customer base by allowing the company to provide both it's goods at a lower cost to the end user and an increase in profits to the stockholders, thus making the whole "serve the customer" thing a bit more believable. You can defend these crooks all you want, but it will be a cold day in hell before I believe that any of these guys have the best interest of any of their "customers"(be they end consumers or stockholders) in mind. A person would have to be an idiot if they really believe that.

I hope those of you "in the know" got the Green Acres reference in my first sentence.;):D

Pretty sure Mr. Drucker's philosophy would be something like, "An honest day's work for an HONEST day's pay, but not 1,000 times an honest days pay." I'm betting that goes for both Drucker's as well.

 

[bwoods11]

For those that have kids, you probably have watched an episode of SpongeBob Squarepants. How about a famous comment from The Krusty Krab owner.... Mr. Krabs..."I like Money!!"

 

[Reagan]

I don't consider a stock holder to be a customer. Customers purchase a product or service.

For those who oppose the big compensation packages, what is the solution? How much money is too much? Who should limit it, the government? If you want to talk about big, bloated money stealing people, Washington is sleazier than most CEOs.


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[wiscwhip]

I agree Reagan, I wouldn't consider them a customer either, but the fact remains that many people do, both in the financial world and in the private sector. Even if you believe the stockholders aren't customers, it is undeniable that the costs of goods are influenced by and linked to performance on Wall Street and the stock market, forever binding the relationship between the end user and the stockholder, regardless of what you believe.

As far as the compensation would go, I have a very viable solution. Their compensation should be performance based. It should also be "scheduled" on a bell curve. Fill in the criteria on the bell curve in whatever suitable manner fits your business(because they will all be different). And who should limit it............certainly not a "Board" of 8 members who are all your cronies, and where the CEO could quite possibly control the paychecks of some or all of those 8. Nothing like everyone writing each others pay increases on the backs of the stockholders and at the expense of consumer pricing. Pretty sure we are in this mess partially because that is exactly what is going on now and it obviously isn't working for anyone other than the "upper crust".