First timer- for clover over grassy area

[Wanabhunter]

So I am attempting to do a smaller plot, some would call it a poor man’s plot or kill plot. It’s about 30x30 yards in a retangluar shape. It currently is over grown grass that as of today was chest high. I did go out today and weed whack it down as far as possible (till I hit dirt). So now it’s only 1-3 inches in height.

The spot gets full sun for the majority of the day as it is basically the edge of a field before the woods.

My plan is to go out next week and spray it with round up to kill the grass, till the ground, and then cast domain no BS food plots seed.

Looking for suggestions.
1. If I spray it, do I need to till it? Can I just mow it back down and cast the seed over the dead grass?

2. Or should I spray the grass, wait a day or two for it to die, then till the dead grass in and then cast the seed?

 

[Tree Spud]

Spray with GLY (much cheaper than Roundup).
Wait a week or 2 and see what didn't get killed or weeds that need addressing. Spray again if necessary.
After you broadcast clover, best to cultipack in to insure good soil contact.

If you till, you will be turning over the seedbank in the soil and you should wait at least 3 weeks after initial spraying/tilling to see what comes up.

 

[Foggy47]

Agree with Spud.....but if you dont have a packer.......after you spray and have the weeds under control......I would just broadcast the seeds and THEN mow. The "throw and mow" method gets discussed on here allot.....and it works. Mowing or culitpacking or just driving your wheeler on it....will all aid in getting seed to soil contact.....which is what you need.

Leaving a little duff over the seed provides some resistance to drying out your ground and the "mulch" created will keep the seedbed moist and a bit cooler than bare dirt. Tilling reduces moisture and can do more harm than good.

Foget about tilling......join the throw and mow crowd. Check the thread on it.

 

[SD51555]

1. Where are you located?

2. Wait

3. What do you plan to do with this spot next year?

4. Answer #1 for the rest of the story.

5. Spread some lime in there now if you need it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wanabhunter]

Spray with GLY (much cheaper than Roundup).
Wait a week or 2 and see what didn't get killed or weeds that need addressing. Spray again if necessary.
After you broadcast clover, best to cultipack in to insure good soil contact.

If you till, you will be turning over the seedbank in the soil and you should wait at least 3 weeks after initial spraying/tilling to see what comes up.

So should I even bother tilling? Seems like I should kill the grass, mow it down as far as possible and then seed?

 

[birdog]

Kill the grass along with everything else and wait until it's all dead
Broadcast your seed ideally with rain in the forecast
Mow
Pray the rain forecast was correct

 

[Tree Spud]

So should I even bother tilling? Seems like I should kill the grass, mow it down as far as possible and then seed?

Yes, you could do that. Tilling will bring up the seed bank and you would need time to do multiple sprayings. Not knowing the condition of the soil and how much thatch there is, spray now. Make sure when you spread the clover seed, the thatch is completely dry to keep the seed from sticking to it. You might want to throw in a 1 lbs of purple top turnips to add some diversity.

 

[Wanabhunter]

As this is not the biggest piece and very high deer numbers I think I want to put that snow fencing up around it till it is established.

Any suggestions?

 

[SD51555]

As this is not the biggest piece and very high deer numbers I think I want to put that snow fencing up around it till it is established.

Any suggestions?

Absent any additional info, here's what I'd do.

If you've got high deer numbers and 1/5 of an acre, I'd just plant rye and throw that blend you bought in with it. Anything better, and high deer numbers will eat that to the dirt in a matter of days and before you are ready to hunt. 400 feet of snow fence and posts to hold it up would be more well spent making your plot bigger.

I'd also burn your duff that you just laid down with the weed whacker, if you can do it safely. Give it a couple weeks to green up, spray it, and put the rye down. That's gonna keep a lid on your response weeds next year too.

 

[Mike O]

You absolutley can do a no till seeding into the dead grass but you first need to make sure the grass is all dead. Nuke it now, like others have said wait two weeks and hit anything still green. I dont know where you are located but here in Michigan I do not seed my clover until mid August and before a timely rain. Let the dead grass really dry out and it will make a great protective thatch for your new clover seedlings. That being said do not expect much this year from a new perennial clover plot as the young plants need time to establish roots and you wont see much growth untill next year. Tilling the soil will only bring up weeds that are already in the seed bank. Perennial clover plots take time to do properly so if you gotta have somthing in there this year maybe broadcast some rye in there as a nurse crop and then mow it down next spring.

 

[Wanabhunter]

You absolutley can do a no till seeding into the dead grass but you first need to make sure the grass is all dead. Nuke it now, like others have said wait two weeks and hit anything still green. I dont know where you are located but here in Michigan I do not seed my clover until mid August and before a timely rain. Let the dead grass really dry out and it will make a great protective thatch for your new clover seedlings. That being said do not expect much this year from a new perennial clover plot as the young plants need time to establish roots and you wont see much growth untill next year. Tilling the soil will only bring up weeds that are already in the seed bank. Perennial clover plots take time to do properly so if you gotta have somthing in there this year maybe broadcast some rye in there as a nurse crop and then mow it down next spring.

I am in upstate central NY. Area. This is great stuff. I am going to get the below picture to kill off the grass and weeds. So to establish the roots I am going to fence it in too

 

[bigboreblr]

2 rounds of spraying if possible. No till vs till, there's one potential issue. How the thatch. Leyer of dead grass between the soil and your seed. IF you can drag something with an ATV to get some soil contact, that would be great. Could weedwhack int the soil at an angle. Will kick out the thatch. Pushing it in with a cultipacker helps too. IF not getting into the thatch well, expect to use 2x the seed. Most folks do about 80lbs an acre. An overgrown place like that may need around 150 lbs/ ace. Using a full bushel about 56lbs I think it is will do the trick. Tos what you can get for clover seed too.

1st year with a rototiller is not a bad idea. Throw n mow might be a toss up how well it goes.

What can you get over there for equipment? Good leaf blower can help too.

 

[Wanabhunter]

I am in upstate central NY. Area. This is great stuff. I am going to get the below picture to kill off the grass and weeds. So to establish the roots I am going to fence it in too

 

[Mike O]

I am in no way recommending "Throw and Mow". What I have suggested is spraying, wait two weeks and hit again, then probably right before you broadcast your clover you spray again to kill anything that has germinated due to the sun now reaching the ground. If you do this mid to late August any new weeds that do germinate at that point will likely be killed by the first frosts (guessing early October). Clover is a really small seed and it seems to find its way down to the ground when broadcast into dead thatch. I have no idea what your soil is like but I have done this exact thing in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan and it worked really well.

 

[Mike O]

What clover variety are you considering? I would probably do a blend but really depends on what your soil is like and if the area you are working with stays really dry or somewhat moist throughout the growing season. I like what I am hearing about Aberlasting clover, maybe mix that with one other white variety and if your area is a little wet add some Alsike and maybe a splash of Chicory. I love creating my own blends. Made the mistake of using store bought IWC the first plot I ever did and paid for all that Berseem they mix in as a cheap filler. Sooner you get that first spraying done the better then go from there.

 

[Wanabhunter]

What clover variety are you considering? I would probably do a blend but really depends on what your soil is like and if the area you are working with stays really dry or somewhat moist throughout the growing season. I like what I am hearing about Aberlasting clover, maybe mix that with one other white variety and if your area is a little wet add some Alsike and maybe a splash of Chicory. I love creating my own blends. Made the mistake of using store bought IWC the first plot I ever did and paid for all that Berseem they mix in as a cheap filler. Sooner you get that first spraying done the better then go from there.

I went with Domain no bs which has VARIETIES OF FORAGE OATS, RED AND WHITE CLOVER, FORAGE RAPE, RADISH AND CHICOR and the same brand called green machine which has VARIETIES OF WINTER RYE, FORAGE OATS, WINTER PEAS, FORAGE RAPE AND TILLAGE RADISH.

 

[Mike O]

The peas and oats in your mix probably wont work out but the smaller seeds like the clovers and the brassicas should. The other issue with store bought seed is the age of the inoculant. All clovers usually come with an inoculant coat which is a living bacteria. It has a shelf life and depending on how long yours has been sitting in a bag in a warehouse it may be beyond that. I have had very good results getting seed from Welters Seed and Honey. The only no till plots I have ever done were straight clover plantings so I don't really know how this will work out for you but good luck.

 

[Wanabhunter]

So I went this morning and sprayed the are with glyphosate. Can I go till tomorrow or should i give it some time?

I plan on spraying it agin and planting mid August. So there will be some time for the soil to settle.

 

[Tree Spud]

So I went this morning and sprayed the are with glyphosate. Can I go till tomorrow or should i give it some time?

I plan on respirating again.

Wait at least a week, ideally 2 weeks. You want the Gly to move into the plant. You want to see what all was killed or if you missed anything.

Once you till, you will need to wait at least 3 weeks as germination will take time and can be delayed because of lack of rain.

This is not a fast process, it takes time.