New to this site so I apologize if this has been asked a thousand times. I was directed here from archerytalk because several people said you guys were the ones to ask. We have a farm/ranch in north central SD, only 5 miles from ND, with a substantial deer herd. We have been doing a ton of work over the last decade when it comes to habitat and food plots for deer and pheasants. However, the one thing we don't have is any fruit trees. I don't think there is an apple or pear tree within 15 miles of us. We want to build a fenced in enclosure to plant apple and pear trees tonlet them mature for a few years and then open it up. What kinds/varieties of apple and pear trees will let have fruit ripening all fall. It would be ideal to have some ripen and start dropping as early as mid-October and some as late as possible in the year. Also, how many trees would you recommend planting? I was thinking 4 apple and 4 pear but after reading some other threads I am wondering if I should plant more. Any advice and suggestions are more than welcome!
First deer apple/pear tree orchard help
- Thread starter hManSD
- Start date
Lot2Learn
5 year old buck +
Welcome aboard!
There are a lot of guys here that live/farm in colder climates and they'll have lots of good advice.
Do you know what USDA Zone you're in? You can check here: http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/
Your zone will guide (but also limit) what varieties will work best for you.
If you can stop at eight trees, you'll be the first to do so <grin>.
There are a lot of guys here that live/farm in colder climates and they'll have lots of good advice.
Do you know what USDA Zone you're in? You can check here: http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/
Your zone will guide (but also limit) what varieties will work best for you.
If you can stop at eight trees, you'll be the first to do so <grin>.
I've looked at the hardiness map before for other projects and were in zone 4a, but pretty close to 4b. I have a feeling this will be the first of many fruit tree plantings. We have a lot of friends with apple trees and this last summer was an exception year for apples. People were darn near paying people to take them. So of course I put some piles in front of trail cameras. Once deer found them they absolutely devoured them. So it only makes sense to have as many trees as possible.
roth2000
5 year old buck +
Apples would be my focus if I were in your shoes. I'm located just on the other side of the nd/sd border but a little more east of you. As far as obtaining trees check with you local soil conservation district for healthy bareroot trees, its probably not too late even for this spring. I've been very impressed with the trees I've recieved and I'm pretty sure most are coming from baileys nursery out of MN. Once you begin growing fruit trees you can make them available to animals and still protect them if you cage them like many on here do. Some varieties to consider for both deer and yourself for our area would be zestar, chestnut crab, fireside/Connell red, centennial crab, sweet sixteen, ure pear, early gold pear, summer crisp pear and there are many others as well.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Yep - The Minnesota guys ( or S.D. guys ) are best suited to give you that advice for varieties. The best advice I can offer is to plan on looking at St. Lawrence Nursery in Potsdam N.Y. this fall for NEXT spring's tree order. They're sold out already this year. They are in zone 3 and have really good cold-hardy apple and crab varieties. They have a great reputation for nursery stock - I've used them for the last 4 years and have been well pleased. The nursery is right up against the Canada border. Owner is Connor Hardiman, e-mail him at Connor@stlawrencenurseries.com to get a catalog sent to you. The deadline for this past fall's order ( for this spring's planting ) was Nov. 15th. You need to be early to get your order in. I have no affiliation with them - just a satisfied customer.
Looking at a previous St. Lawrence catalog, - Goodland, Minnesota 1734, Prairie Magic, Prairie Spy, and Sherry are all highly rated for extreme cold hardiness.
Another good place to get an idea for cold weather varieties is www.coldhardyfruittrees.ca They are located in Canada ( I don't know if they'll ship to the U.S., but you'll get some good variety names for the cold north country ). They also list Goodland & Minnesota 1734, - like St. Lawrence does - as well as a number of other great choices.
Looking at a previous St. Lawrence catalog, - Goodland, Minnesota 1734, Prairie Magic, Prairie Spy, and Sherry are all highly rated for extreme cold hardiness.
Another good place to get an idea for cold weather varieties is www.coldhardyfruittrees.ca They are located in Canada ( I don't know if they'll ship to the U.S., but you'll get some good variety names for the cold north country ). They also list Goodland & Minnesota 1734, - like St. Lawrence does - as well as a number of other great choices.
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4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
I am in zone 3, and live in zone 4. University of Minnesota has designed many apple trees for our area. I would look a more at apples, and less at pears. Not saying don't plant any, I would just plant less, with lower hopes. I started off like you, the thought 4 will be plenty. I have about 20 now, and will be adding more. Just remember it takes several years to produce apples, so plant them now, and make sure to protect them, or the deer will eat them. Other people much smarter then me will chime in. When I have more time I will give you a list of apple trees I have. But starting off with a couple crab apples would be a good idea. Whitneys, Dolgo, and Chestnuts are a good choice.
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Thanks for all the info already guys! When you talk about getting an order in this November for next spring, would that be for seedling trees? I thought about buying trees that are already a few years old for my first round of planting so they produce quicker. Would that be advisable or not?
Lot2Learn
5 year old buck +
The term 'seedling tree' refers to a tree that grew from a seed. Since apples don't grow 'true to seed' (meaning a seed from a Honeycrisp won't grow to be a Honeycrisp), if you want specific varieties and characteristics (e.g., cold hardiness, disease resistance, flavor, drop time) you'll buy grafted trees or learn to graft yourself.
Most fruit trees you buy from vendors (e.g., Cummins Nursery, Adams County Nursery...see the sticky thread at the top of this forum for a more complete list) will be (a) a known/clonal rootstock and (b) a known variety that has been grafted onto that rootstock. The trees you buy will be about two years old when they reach you. There are a very few vendors that sell older trees, but the general wisdom is that digging an older tree does so much damage to the roots, that you're really no better off than planting a two-year old tree.
This is not to say that there isn't a role for planting seedling trees, but that's a topic for another day.
Most fruit trees you buy from vendors (e.g., Cummins Nursery, Adams County Nursery...see the sticky thread at the top of this forum for a more complete list) will be (a) a known/clonal rootstock and (b) a known variety that has been grafted onto that rootstock. The trees you buy will be about two years old when they reach you. There are a very few vendors that sell older trees, but the general wisdom is that digging an older tree does so much damage to the roots, that you're really no better off than planting a two-year old tree.
This is not to say that there isn't a role for planting seedling trees, but that's a topic for another day.
buckvelvet
5 year old buck +
People in the zones that your in grow fruit trees grafted on to standard or semi stock. Usually they choose Antonovka, Ranetka, B118, or Dolgo. Everyone that I've talked to the last few years on these forums have had good luck with those stocks in that 3-4 zone type environment. You want the tree to get tall to compete with the snow for critters. Higher the snow the taller the wildlife is in the winter. :)
Certainly you be caging these trees but I see your going to fence the entire area where the orchard will be started until the trees are 'mature'. Certainly a good idea if you have the resources/man power/time to do so. However even fencing out big critters you need to put aluminum window screen around the trunks to deter the rabbits, mice, & voles from eating your trees/girdling.
There are multiple varieties that folks have used in the MN region specifically that have grown fine, are cedars a concern in the dakotas? If they are you will have to factor CAR (Cedar Apple Rust) into your decision as well. Are you going to be doing a spray program? If not then you'll want to focus more heavily on disease resistant types suited for your zone which makes the list a bit shorter. :)
Certainly you be caging these trees but I see your going to fence the entire area where the orchard will be started until the trees are 'mature'. Certainly a good idea if you have the resources/man power/time to do so. However even fencing out big critters you need to put aluminum window screen around the trunks to deter the rabbits, mice, & voles from eating your trees/girdling.
There are multiple varieties that folks have used in the MN region specifically that have grown fine, are cedars a concern in the dakotas? If they are you will have to factor CAR (Cedar Apple Rust) into your decision as well. Are you going to be doing a spray program? If not then you'll want to focus more heavily on disease resistant types suited for your zone which makes the list a bit shorter. :)
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
hManSD - As the other guys above stated, the trees you get from nurseries are generally 2 yrs. old and anywhere from 3 ft. tall to usually 4 to 6 ft. tall when they ship them to you. Easier to dig up - for the nurseries - and easier to plant for you. Some of my 3 and 4 year old ( in the ground ) trees are now 11 to 12 ft. tall - just to give you an idea of growth rate.
When I said order in November for next spring - that is St. Lawrence Nursery's deadline. You can order as soon as this coming August or September for some nurseries ........ it just depends on when they know for sure what varieties they'll have ready for next spring's shipments. Nurseries observe all summer long how their trees ( which are grafted to certain rootstocks ) are growing and then make a determination as to how many of which varieties will be mature enough to ship in the spring. It's wise to make contact with several nurseries and get on their mailing lists so you get catalogs as soon as they mail them out. Then you can order early.
Crab apples are generally tougher trees than regular apple trees. Less fussy to care for and very cold-hardy. Post #8 above listed 3 good crabs. If you want less headache using regular apples, go for disease resistant ( DR ) varieties. 5 ft. tall concrete mesh cage for deer and aluminum window screen around the trunks for mice / voles / rabbits. Protect trees from day 1. - - - - Posts # 10 and 11 above have good info too. Good to re-read them.
Check out the " sticky " at the top in this fruit tree category. ( the red push-pin icon ) Much good info there.
When I said order in November for next spring - that is St. Lawrence Nursery's deadline. You can order as soon as this coming August or September for some nurseries ........ it just depends on when they know for sure what varieties they'll have ready for next spring's shipments. Nurseries observe all summer long how their trees ( which are grafted to certain rootstocks ) are growing and then make a determination as to how many of which varieties will be mature enough to ship in the spring. It's wise to make contact with several nurseries and get on their mailing lists so you get catalogs as soon as they mail them out. Then you can order early.
Crab apples are generally tougher trees than regular apple trees. Less fussy to care for and very cold-hardy. Post #8 above listed 3 good crabs. If you want less headache using regular apples, go for disease resistant ( DR ) varieties. 5 ft. tall concrete mesh cage for deer and aluminum window screen around the trunks for mice / voles / rabbits. Protect trees from day 1. - - - - Posts # 10 and 11 above have good info too. Good to re-read them.
Check out the " sticky " at the top in this fruit tree category. ( the red push-pin icon ) Much good info there.
These guys have it covered. I have a bunch of apple trees in SE MN and NW WI and the advice they gave is right on. I really like St. Lawrence Nurseries and I order some fruit trees from them every year. I generally like the standard sized trees from SLN to be the backbone of my orchards since they are supposed to live 100 years and grow into very large trees. Semi-dwarf or semi-standard rootstocks grow trees that aren't quite as large, but they generally fruit a little bit faster than the larger standard trees. I have a bunch of these semi-dwarf and semi-standard trees in my orchards to give me some fruit quicker while I wait for the big trees to produce. Don't use dwarf trees though.
If I were in your shoes, I'd find a way to order 4+ trees and get some ordered right now for delivery in a month. That way you'll get a year's growth on some fruit trees this year and you can come up with a long term plan for next year's spring order. Cummins nursery still has some trees and you also might be able to order some from other nurseries like Woodstock nursery in WI and others. NW greening, Haralson, yellow transparent, Sweet 16, prairie spy, MN 1734, dolgo crabapples and other crabapples have all done well for me. Put 5 or 6' tall cages around the trees (I use 12.5' per tree), stake in place with a fencepost, staple window screen (18" per tree) around the trunk to protect against vole damage and paint the SW half of the tree with a diluted white latex paint in early fall to prevent SW injury in the winter and you'll be good to go. Good luck
If I were in your shoes, I'd find a way to order 4+ trees and get some ordered right now for delivery in a month. That way you'll get a year's growth on some fruit trees this year and you can come up with a long term plan for next year's spring order. Cummins nursery still has some trees and you also might be able to order some from other nurseries like Woodstock nursery in WI and others. NW greening, Haralson, yellow transparent, Sweet 16, prairie spy, MN 1734, dolgo crabapples and other crabapples have all done well for me. Put 5 or 6' tall cages around the trees (I use 12.5' per tree), stake in place with a fencepost, staple window screen (18" per tree) around the trunk to protect against vole damage and paint the SW half of the tree with a diluted white latex paint in early fall to prevent SW injury in the winter and you'll be good to go. Good luck
Thanks for all the great info guys! I will be calling around to some of the nurseries mentioned to see if I can still get my hands on some trees. The only question I can think of now pertains to the fenced in inclosure. From the research I've done and what's been said here, I should plant the trees 25-30 feet apart. But how far back from the fence should they be? Would that all depend on the type of tree itself? I know from apple trees some of our friends have, some go "out" while some go "up." I just want to make sure I don't get too close to the fence that I would have cut the tree back.
4wanderingeyes
5 year old buck +
20-30 feet is a good distance. They don't need to be exact. As for how close to the sides, I have each trees fenced, and the deer keep the lower branches trimmed that I don't prune, I would say a couple feet from the fence is enough to protect the tree itself.
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ruskbuckss
5 year old buck +
I live almost 5hrs from my land so I don't have a lot of time to pamper my trees. I have a few apple trees that are doing ok,(lost a few) but I really like the crabs. I might just stick with them from now on. Everyone I have planted have done great so far( Dolgo,Chestnut, Whitney, and Zumi. They seem to grow fast and are the only trees that produced any fruit so far. All thou the fruit is smaller, I think they might make just as much or maybe more as the apples. I order mine from Woodstock and have always been happy with them.
I am going to pop into this thread with another newbie question. I'll be planting fruit trees first time this spring.
I will be using metal conduit for the stakes to support the tree. Does it matter what I use to tie the tree to the stake? I'm guessing these is a recommended method of doing this too. Thanks in advance everyone. I really dig this site.
I will be using metal conduit for the stakes to support the tree. Does it matter what I use to tie the tree to the stake? I'm guessing these is a recommended method of doing this too. Thanks in advance everyone. I really dig this site.
You don't need to support the trees with any stakes. Just put a 5' tall fence around them to protect from deer browsing and you are good to go. Put window screen around the trunk to protect against mouse damage too.
