First Attempt at no-till/no-plow food plot

[omicron1792]

Yep, definitely already have a plan in place to address the low pH.

Lawnmower Plot 2022

I've really come to enjoy putting in food plots with my lawnmower. I saw a tremendous amount of rain forecasted 2 weeks ago and couldn't stop myself. This is the before and after:

habitat-talk.com

Hope you slay them!!!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

As long as we're straying from the OP's primary focus on thatch..

The description from whitetail institute on the imperial no-plow mix sounds great for the OP's intended application. Any chance we could get a picture of the seed tag to see what the mix actually is?

 

[archer8030]

As long as we're straying from the OP's primary focus on thatch..

The description from whitetail institute on the imperial no-plow mix sounds great for the OP's intended application. Any chance we could get a picture of the seed tag to see what the mix actually is?

The bag is at the property so I don't have the label close by. I don't remember the percentage breakdown but I do know the mix contains Fria annual ryegrass, dwarf Essex annual rape, Berseem clover, Crimson clover, Yuchi Arrowhead clover, Trophy annual rape and WINA 412 Radish.

 

[yoderjac]

The lane I mowed is 10' wide, not the entire area. The area I chose to build this plot is roughly 50-60 yards wide on the south side of the lane and very open. There aren't any large leaf-bearing trees on the south and west side of the lane and the trees on the north and east side of the lane that do possess large leaves are a little further back from the lane so the leaves that drop will fall mainly outside of the lane. The lane itself gets very little in the way of fallen leaves.

While this is my first attempt at this type of food plot, I have years of experience on this piece of property and I am very familiar with the area this plot is being made in. There's a reason I selected this site. If it was an area that didn't get ample sunlight or got too choked out with leaves or held too much standing water or was too rocky or too sandy or whatever obstacles that stand in the way of successful food plots, I wouldn't have selected this area to create a food plot.

I'm not discouraged at all. Like I said, my expectations for this plot in its first year are extremely low. I plan to use this area as a test lab, if you will. I will learn what to do, what not to do, what to do different before formulating a proven process/approach and going to different parts of the property to create more small food plots. We already have large destination food plots on the property and they do very well. We try to hunt those plots as little as possible and typically only take youth/new hunters to those areas. I'm a bow hunter so I like to get back into the woods and that's why I'm looking to create these little "kill plots." I am aware of and have accepted the challenges that lie ahead.

Truthfully, while I've gotten a bunch of responses, I was really only looking for input on what to do with the thatch. Lol! I appreciate the constructive criticism and differing perspectives though. Thank you, Jack.

Maybe I just got the wrong perspective from the pics. I would leave the thatch. but I would seed first then mow. The dead vegetation will act as mulch.

 

[PatinPA]

Here is a before and after, where I plant on a woods road. it's on the left fork of the road. Usually all of the deer walking it are heading back to bedding. It's just to hopefully stop them for a second or two for a shot. It doesn't get very good sunlight. It's right at the base of a hill on the north side of the hill. That's why I stick to cereal grains here. This year I think I might try to run it down the fork to the right which leads to the camp and one of my other plots.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

The bag is at the property so I don't have the label close by. I don't remember the percentage breakdown but I do know the mix contains Fria annual ryegrass, dwarf Essex annual rape, Berseem clover, Crimson clover, Yuchi Arrowhead clover, Trophy annual rape and WINA 412 Radish.

Furthering the thread hijack (sorry) - I'm just a newby to this stuff but I've never read a positive comment about having ryegrass in a mix (besides that it grows easy and makes people feel successful) and to the contrary have read lots of negatives.

Annual Rye Grass in Food Plots?

I have never planted a seed of annual ryegrass in my food plots. They have existed fine for years with no annual ryegrass present. About three years ago, annual ryegrass started making a pretty strong showing in my food plots, and now, all of them are solid annual ryegrass this time of year...

habitat-talk.com

 

[archer8030]

Maybe I just got the wrong perspective from the pics. I would leave the thatch. but I would seed first then mow. The dead vegetation will act as mulch.

No worries. I was focused on the lane, that is to be the food plot, so the pictures definitely doesn't represent the surrounding area. If you can visualize, the right side of the first picture and the left side of the second picture is the NE side. The left side of the first picture and the right side of the second picture is the SW side. The NE side is a stand of various mature river bottom hardwoods (mostly poplar, river birch, hickory, maple and sweetgum) with a fairly thick canopy. The SW side is wide open for a little less than 60 yard before it runs into a short ridge loaded with mainly white oaks with a few red oaks mixed in. Straight east goes back into a big and thick bedding area and the straight west end is my access point. The entire northern and eastern sides of this area is bordered by a decent sized creek that has water year round. The neighboring property on the other side of that creek is nothing but a big 90 acres clear cut. Some deer are bedding in that young clear cut and crossing the creek but the majority are bedding in the tall river cane in the big bedding area I mentioned. This food plot, in conjunction with the standing white and red oaks, is the closest food source to them and the first food source they encounter before heading elsewhere on the property.

As far as the thatch, as I mentioned, it's roughly 1/4" to 1/2" thick but not matted yet. You're recommending seed and then mow again? I closed off the side discharge on my push mower so it's in "mulching mode." That's how I initially mowed the plot and why there is some thatch remaining. Obviously I still have yet to fertilize/lime but that is already on the schedule prior to planting.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I wouldn't worry about the thatch. Add a bunch of lime, spread some seed and see what happens and make future adjustments as needed.

My first thought after seeing the picture is that the good stuff you want to draw in the deer won't thrive in that shade. The trees in your woods have very few lower branches, so not much sunlight is hitting the ground there. Lots of woods plants can grow tall in shade, but the good food plot blends need more sun. Again, it's certainly worth a try since you would only be out the cost of the seed and lime. In shaded logging roads I've had decent luck planting clover since it is more tolerant of lower sunlight levels than other plants. It doesn't thrive, but it will give the deer a bite or two to eat on their way to their destination. Rye grass can also grow in shade, but in the deer on my place didn't like to eat it.

 

[archer8030]

Furthering the thread hijack (sorry) - I'm just a newby to this stuff but I've never read a positive comment about having ryegrass in a mix (besides that it grows easy and makes people feel successful) and to the contrary have read lots of negatives.

Annual Rye Grass in Food Plots?

I have never planted a seed of annual ryegrass in my food plots. They have existed fine for years with no annual ryegrass present. About three years ago, annual ryegrass started making a pretty strong showing in my food plots, and now, all of them are solid annual ryegrass this time of year...

habitat-talk.com

I was concerned about that as well so I did some digging and actually spoke with several people that have used this product and none of them voiced any issues with the ryegrass. Trust me though, it's definitely something that caught my attention.

 

[archer8030]

I wouldn't worry about the thatch. Add a bunch of lime, spread some seed and see what happens and make future adjustments as needed.

My first thought after seeing the picture is that the good stuff you want to draw in the deer won't thrive in that shade. The trees in your woods have very few lower branches, so not much sunlight is hitting the ground there. Lots of woods plants can grow tall in shade, but the good food plot blends need more sun. Again, it's certainly worth a try since you would only be out the cost of the seed and lime. In shaded logging roads I've had decent luck planting clover since it is more tolerant of lower sunlight levels than other plants. It doesn't thrive, but it will give the deer a bite or two to eat on their way to their destination. Rye grass can also grow in shade, but in the deer on my place didn't like to eat it.

Hey Ben.

Thanks for your input on the thatch.

As far as the shade/sunlight, I've addressed that, ad nauseam, previously in this thread. The picture was taken in the morning. The area gets considerably more than the 3-4 hours of sunlight recommended for the product I'm considering planting. The picture was purposefully focused on the food plot itself and does not represent the area as a whole.

 

[Tree Spud]

I am looking at those pictures and I see limited sunlight. Clover needs 4-6 hours of direct sunlight.

The bag is at the property so I don't have the label close by. I don't remember the percentage breakdown but I do know the mix contains Fria annual ryegrass, dwarf Essex annual rape, Berseem clover, Crimson clover, Yuchi Arrowhead clover, Trophy annual rape and WINA 412 Radish.

Rye grass ... you'll plant that once and will probably regret it for several years.

 

[yoderjac]

Furthering the thread hijack (sorry) - I'm just a newby to this stuff but I've never read a positive comment about having ryegrass in a mix (besides that it grows easy and makes people feel successful) and to the contrary have read lots of negatives.

Annual Rye Grass in Food Plots?

I have never planted a seed of annual ryegrass in my food plots. They have existed fine for years with no annual ryegrass present. About three years ago, annual ryegrass started making a pretty strong showing in my food plots, and now, all of them are solid annual ryegrass this time of year...

habitat-talk.com

I too was confused about ryegrass for many years. I had a bad experience with a BOB mix containing it. But then, I would read about highly experienced guys that were using ryegrass as part of their program. Eventually, I did some deeper research.

As a newbie, I would avoid mixes that contain ryegrass. Annual Diploid ryegrass is not a preferred deer food and it can become invasive in some areas and hard to get rid of. It is very easy to grow, so some BOB companies put it in the mix because many folks see green and think they did well.

So, it turns out that there are some ryegrass that is used much more by deer. It is a tetraploid ryegrass that is high in sucrose. I'm finally brave enough to try it. I hate fescue it has zero wildlife value, takes over, and is very hard to get rid of. It forms turf that impede turkey and other game bird poults. I'm putting in a quarter mile driveway to our retirement property. I did a bunch of cleanup and drainage shaping along it with the excavator and needed to plant something along it. I decided to give the perennial tetraploid ryegrass a try.

It was planted this spring. I'm sure it is much better than fescue. It is quite easy to grow. It has only been a few months, but I have not seen much deer use of it yet. I'm not ready to put it in my food plots yet, but I'll report back and it goes through a couple seasons to see if deer begin using it during some part of the year.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Barndog56]

That thatch shouldn't be a problem, but since you are seeding on top of it I would be as sure as possible that you get plenty of rain immediately after broadcasting. That will help insure you get good seed to soil contact, and get it growing right away so the seeds don't get eaten.

 

[archer8030]

That thatch shouldn't be a problem, but since you are seeding on top of it I would be as sure as possible that you get plenty of rain immediately after broadcasting. That will help insure you get good seed to soil contact, and get it growing right away so the seeds don't get eaten.

I will definitely be watching the weather closely when the time to plants draws near. I'm shooting for mid-September so hopefully the weather cooperates.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Wild Thing]

As long as we're straying from the OP's primary focus on thatch..

The description from whitetail institute on the imperial no-plow mix sounds great for the OP's intended application. Any chance we could get a picture of the seed tag to see what the mix actually is?

The bag is at the property so I don't have the label close by. I don't remember the percentage breakdown but I do know the mix contains Fria annual ryegrass, dwarf Essex annual rape, Berseem clover, Crimson clover, Yuchi Arrowhead clover, Trophy annual rape and WINA 412 Radish.

As a matter of fact....I just happened to take a pic of the Whitetail Institute No-Plow seed tag last week. Mind you - this is some very old seed that was given to me by a buddy who no longer owns his hunting property. The newer version of this seed may very well be different.



It contains 25% Gulf Annual Ryegrass... I doubt that this old seed would have given a very high percentage of germination...but, I am not interested in growing any ryegrass in my food plots anyway so this old seed went out with the trash - please don't tell my buddy.


Regarding thatch - Thatch is your friend. My goal is to grow lots of future thatch in my cover crops so I can plant into it. Thatch prevents erosion, suppresses weeds, retains soil moisture, reduces heat from direct sunlight, and feeds nutrients back into your soil as it decomposes - reducing or eliminating the need for synthetic fertilizers. What is not to love about thatch??

This thatch is just about perfect:







And new plants have no trouble at all growing right up through it....

 

[archer8030]

As a matter of fact....I just happened to take a pic of the Whitetail Institute No-Plow seed tag last week. Mind you - this is some very old seed that was given to me by a buddy who no longer owns his hunting property. The newer version of this seed may very well be different.

View attachment 45186

It contains 25% Gulf Annual Ryegrass... I doubt that this old seed would have given a very high percentage of germination...but, I am not interested in growing any ryegrass in my food plots anyway so this old seed went out with the trash - please don't tell my buddy.
View attachment 45187

Regarding thatch - Thatch is your friend. My goal is to grow lots of future thatch in my cover crops so I can plant into it. Thatch prevents erosion, suppresses weeds, retains soil moisture, reduces heat from direct sunlight, and feeds nutrients back into your soil as it decomposes - reducing or eliminating the need for synthetic fertilizers. What is not to love about thatch??

This thatch is just about perfect:

View attachment 45188

View attachment 45189

View attachment 45190

And new plants have no trouble at all growing right up through it....
View attachment 45191

Great info! Definitely making me feel better about leaving the thatch. Just by kicking a little over, I can see the moisture is hold so that is definitely a good thing. I believe I've turned the corner and planning on leaving the thatch.

Looking at your label, the only differences I could find were the Fria Rye vs the Gulf Rye (I believe Fria is a bit more cold tolerant...?), Trophy Annual Rape vs Athena Rape, WINA 412 Radish vs ECO-till Radish and no lettuce. I know a lot of folks aren't big on the pre-mixed name brand seed mixes but I'm going to give this a go and see how it goes. I haven't used this particular blend before but we have used Whitetail Institute products in some of our larger food plots and they've performed well so we'll see how this goes.

Thanks again for the information.

 

[Rit]

Hey Ben.

Thanks for your input on the thatch.

As far as the shade/sunlight, I've addressed that, ad nauseam, previously in this thread. The picture was taken in the morning. The area gets considerably more than the 3-4 hours of sunlight recommended for the product I'm considering planting. The picture was purposefully focused on the food plot itself and does not represent the area as a whole.

Maybe relax about the shade. New guys shows up post two very shady pictures then let’s everyone know how he has addressed that ad nauseam and request we are patient. Looking at the photos it looks incredibly shaded regardless of what time of day it was. Maybe that leads to mildew problems for your expected crops because all the fall dew that is on the way won’t get to dry out until early afternoon. I know for a fact clumps of thatch will get pockets of mildew with prolonged exposure to moisture. You have very large trees all over those photos and ZERO sunlight. That was some very good assumptions by some really smart guys that have planted thousands of acres.

 

[archer8030]

Maybe relax about the shade. New guys shows up post two very shady pictures then let’s everyone know how he has addressed that ad nauseam and request we are patient. Looking at the photos it looks incredibly shaded regardless of what time of day it was. Maybe that leads to mildew problems for your expected crops because all the fall dew that is on the way won’t get to dry out until early afternoon. I know for a fact clumps of thatch will get pockets of mildew with prolonged exposure to moisture. You have very large trees all over those photos and ZERO sunlight. That was some very good assumptions by some really smart guys that have planted thousands of acres.

I understand the "assumptions" being made were based on their assessments from the pictures. That's why I took the time, multiple times, to describe the area and to point out the pictures aren't an accurate representation of the area as a whole. I concede that, on forums like this, and especially threads with several posts, most people don't read the thread from the beginning to get caught up before posting on it. That said, I explained the area, multiple times, throughout the entire thread to address these assumptions. the information was there. It's not my fault some chose to post without having a complete grasp of all the information first.

Thank you for taking the time out of your day just to come wag your finger at me. I'm sorry you won't be able to get that time back but I do hope you have a better day, sir.

 

[Rit]

I understand the "assumptions" being made were based on their assessments from the pictures. That's why I took the time, multiple times, to describe the area and to point out the pictures aren't an accurate representation of the area as a whole. I concede that, on forums like this, and especially threads with several posts, most people

I understand the "assumptions" being made were based on their assessments from the pictures. That's why I took the time, multiple times, to describe the area and to point out the pictures aren't an accurate representation of the area as a whole. I concede that, on forums like this, and especially threads with several posts, most people don't read the thread from the beginning to get caught up before posting on it. That said, I explained the area, multiple times, throughout the entire thread to address these assumptions. the information was there. It's not my fault some chose to post without having a complete grasp of all the information first.

Thank you for taking the time out of your day just to come wag your finger at me. I'm sorry you won't be able to get that time back but I do hope you have a better day,

I understand the "assumptions" being made were based on their assessments from the pictures. That's why I took the time, multiple times, to describe the area and to point out the pictures aren't an accurate representation of the area as a whole. I concede that, on forums like this, and especially threads with several posts, most people don't read the thread from the beginning to get caught up before posting on it. That said, I explained the area, multiple times, throughout the entire thread to address these assumptions. the information was there. It's not my fault some chose to post without having a complete grasp of all the information first.

Thank you for taking the time out of your day just to come wag your finger at me. I'm sorry you won't be able to get that time back but I do hope you have a better day, sir.

Right on new guy

 

[PatinPA]

I understand the "assumptions" being made were based on their assessments from the pictures. That's why I took the time, multiple times, to describe the area and to point out the pictures aren't an accurate representation of the area as a whole. I concede that, on forums like this, and especially threads with several posts, most people don't read the thread from the beginning to get caught up before posting on it. That said, I explained the area, multiple times, throughout the entire thread to address these assumptions. the information was there. It's not my fault some chose to post without having a complete grasp of all the information first.

Thank you for taking the time out of your day just to come wag your finger at me. I'm sorry you won't be able to get that time back but I do hope you have a better day, sir.

Do you have an aerial photo you could post? Might be easier to see what you're describing. Two of my plots are partially shaded. Some things grow ok and some things don't grow well at all. At times I've gotten better growth in the shaded areas I think because I have a pretty thin soil layer that sits on nothing but rocks and it dries out very quickly in the sun.