Don't shoot deer you don't have tags for...

[Boone]

In Wi you cannot cross property lines without permission unless your leo. I agree with this 100%. It forces everyone to not hunt close to fences, make a good shot, and be very respectful to your neighbor because someday more than likely you will have to ask to trail a deer. It goes both ways. I cant imagine not having this law in place.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

In Wi you cannot cross property lines without permission unless your leo. I agree with this 100%. It forces everyone to not hunt close to fences, make a good shot, and be very respectful to your neighbor because someday more than likely you will have to ask to trail a deer. It goes both ways. I cant imagine not having this law in place.

I have one neighbor that owns land, but doesnt hunt, and I have never seen her around. I have only talked to her 1 time, and that was when I wanted to see if she wanted to sell the land to me. She told me she would love to sell the land, but her asking price was about 3 times what the market was in the area, so I was polite and told her I would keep it in mind. The owner is from over 500 miles away, in another state, the land is not posted, so I have gone on her land to retrieve a deer in the past, without asking. Not because I think I am getting away with something, but just because the inconvenience of trying to locate her, and contact her just to retrieve a deer.

 

[roymunson]

I have one neighbor that owns land, but doesnt hunt, and I have never seen her around. I have only talked to her 1 time, and that was when I wanted to see if she wanted to sell the land to me. She told me she would love to sell the land, but her asking price was about 3 times what the market was in the area, so I was polite and told her I would keep it in mind. The owner is from over 500 miles away, in another state, the land is not posted, so I have gone on her land to retrieve a deer in the past, without asking. Not because I think I am getting away with something, but just because the inconvenience of trying to locate her, and contact her just to retrieve a deer.

I have a similar siuation to my south. Lady lives in Florida. Did finally get ahold of her and offered to hang posted signs on her property. I may do some heavy posted sign hanging in february and march. You know, shortly after most of the deer have shed their antlers.

 

[yoderjac]

Ethics and regulations are two totally different animals. To me ethics trump regulations all day long. Today for instance I am going trout fishing. It is catch and release only season up until mid April. It is unlikely that i would have a fish die but if I did it sure as hell wouldnt be going back into the water. There is also no way i would spend the time or waste the breath to call and telling a CO about it.

In my view you are correct, ethics trump regulations....But only if you are willing to turn yourself in and accept the consequences of your actions.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

In my view you are correct, ethics trump regulations....But only if you are willing to turn yourself in and accept the consequences of your actions.

I'm am by no means saying you are wrong and I am right. What you just said though is the kind of thought process "they" have created. Police state at its finest. I could see someone starting a war over it 250 years ago.

 

[Telemark]

In my view you are correct, ethics trump regulations....But only if you are willing to turn yourself in and accept the consequences of your actions.

I disagree. If ethics trump regulation, there is no moral obligation to turn yourself in. Turning yourself in is just a good idea to avoid harsh penalties and a bad reputation among LEOs.

I break traffic laws every day. It would be absurd to go turn myself in for every infraction.

 

[yoderjac]

I disagree. If ethics trump regulation, there is no moral obligation to turn yourself in. Turning yourself in is just a good idea to avoid harsh penalties and a bad reputation among LEOs.

I break traffic laws every day. It would be absurd to go turn myself in for every infraction.

I think you have somewhat of a point when it comes to practicality, but not principle. I understand the traffic example, however, when you see the blueberries in your mirror to you immediately pull over? Do you accept the ticket? Do you plead guilty? Or, do you try to "get away with it" and avoid the consequences? If you are willing to stand up and take the consequence and not avoid them, you are yielding.

I would also suggest that when I break the traffic laws on a regular basis, it is not because I'm making an ethical choice that is trumping the law. Perhaps if I'm rushing someone to the hospital with a life threatening condition, I would be making an ethical choice, but we don't do this on a daily basis. When I violate the traffic laws, it is out of selfishness, not out of an ethical choice.

Hopefully, folks are not shooting deer illegally on a regular basis based on an ethical choice either. I see no ethical basis for saying I'm going to intentionally violate regulations and shoot deer without proper authorization. That boils down to selfishness pure and simple. On the other hand, someone who make the ethical choice like putting a severely wounded animal out of its misery and turns themselves in, they are saying that they respect that law and are taking responsibility for breaking it. The ethical point is not to avoid harsher penalties (although that is often the result), it to ensure that choice is really ethical and we are not fooling ourselves in to thinking our selfish choices are really ethical ones. In fact, 90+% of the time, if you do not turn yourself in there are zero consequences, and if you do turn yourself in there are usually some consequences, even if they are less severe than if you hide it and get caught. For example, a game warden may decide not to charge you if you make an obvious ethical choice and turn yourself in with no threat of getting caught, but they will often confiscate the game.

When I say that ethics trumps regulations, I mean when there is a conflict between my ethics and the law, ethics will prevail. I'm not saying that each time we break the law it is an ethical choice.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I'm am by no means saying you are wrong and I am right. What you just said though is the kind of thought process "they" have created. Police state at its finest. I could see someone starting a war over it 250 years ago.

There is always a tension between my liberty and your liberty. When I chose to do something that impacts you, I've reduced your liberty. That is why we have a political system to determine how to balance personal and collective liberty. It is not a perfect system but as Churchhill is often paraphrased; It is the worst system except for all the others. I don't always like it when I have to pass a harvest opportunity I would otherwise take because of some regulation. On the other hand, I don't want to go back to the old days of Market Hunting. The "they" is all of us!

My attitude might be better than yours simply because our state game department has been very good in my opinion. I can't speak to other states, and I may feel the same frustrations you feel if I lived in your state.

That said, always keep in mind that our opportunities to hunt are in the hands of non-hunters whether we like it or not. How folks who don't understand our passion will make decisions based on their perception of how we conduct ourselves.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Telemark]

when you see the blueberries in your mirror to you immediately pull over? Do you accept the ticket? Do you plead guilty? Or, do you try to "get away with it" and avoid the consequences?

I pull over and fess up. Cops hate being lied to.

You don't have to be selfish to speed. If there is an empty road, daylight, and no precipitation, i naturally just drive faster than normal without realizing it.

 

[Telemark]

Perhaps if I'm rushing someone to the hospital with a life threatening condition, I would be making an ethical choice

Would you call the cops and report yourself for speeding?

 

[yoderjac]

I pull over and fess up. Cops hate being lied to.

You don't have to be selfish to speed. If there is an empty road, daylight, and no precipitation, i naturally just drive faster than normal without realizing it.

True (I guess some don't have cruise control), but that is more akin to not understanding complex regulations or thinking it is Tuesday rather than Wednesday and not realizing that game was now out of season. Not at all akin to the original post story where it describes a knowing, intentional violation with cover-up efforts.

 

[Telemark]

My point is it's not always unethical to drive over the speed limit, and I don't need to turn myself in when I do it. It was an example to demonstrate that there is no moral obligation to turn yourself in if you have broken the law but not done so unethically.

 

[Telemark]

When I violate the traffic laws, it is out of selfishness, not out of an ethical choice.

Do you turn yourself in?

 

[yoderjac]

My point is it's not always unethical to drive over the speed limit, and I don't need to turn myself in when I do it. It was an example to demonstrate that there is no moral obligation to turn yourself in if you have broken the law but not done so unethically.

Would you call the cops and report yourself for speeding?

Probably wouldn't have to in that case as they would likely be at the hospital or on my tail as I arrived. I doubt that in a life threatening situation, it would be a high enough priority to enter my mind. Having said that, I'd admit in a heartbeat and even volunteer it if it entered my mind.

Do you turn yourself in?

I think we are on different wavelengths. Perhaps my point was not clear. We violate the law all the time, whether it is unintentional or intentional having nothing to do with ethics trumping the law. In the case, when one violates the law based on an ethical decision to intentionally violate the law, to evade the consequences of the violation in my book is unethical.

Ethics are what we set our mind to with no external pressures (how do we act when no one is looking and there is no chance of being seen). So, in the case of driving someone to the hospital in an emergency, I doubt turning myself in would ever enter my mind because in that situation I would be so concerned with what is happening in the moment. However, If I thought about it, or was asked by law enforcement, or whatever caused it to come up, if I did not readily admit to it, I would be trying to evade the consequences and acting unethically.

I think we've beat this horse to death...