Do First Time Plots Need Tilled?

treeguy

Yearling... With promise
Hello, last year we bought some land that had previously been cattle pasture. I was wondering if I would need to have it tilled for the first year? I thought it would probably be more compacted because of all the years of cows. I currently don't have a way to till it, I would need to try and hire a farmer nearby.

Last year I did a practice plot at a different property, maybe 1/8 acre. I tilled that with my garden tiller and planted rye and clover, it turned out nice. I was planning for 2 one acre plots this year . I don't want to till that. I sprayed a week ago and am going to spray again this coming weekend, so it should be pretty clean after that.

Current equipment: 700 cc ATV and 25 gallon 10' boom sprayer. There's a JD 4610 I'm going to bid on this week, but I probably won't get it. I'm not opposed to buying a small disk for the ATV and I might try to get a cultipacker. I will hopefully have a tractor eventually.


In the future I would like to be no till or limited till.
 
You do what you can do. Cattle pasture is going to be a little worse because of soil compaction, but an easy germinating seed like winter rye or wheat is probably going to produce results - especially if you can plan your planting just before a rain. A problem here would be birds eating the seeds before germination, especially on sprayed, bare ground. I would seed heavy
 
Always lots of questions.....like soil type, and soil test, etc. But.....many of us feel you dont need or want to till.

Get the pasture killed via a few applications of glyphosate.....then broadcast seeds and then mow to about 3" to create improved seed to soil contact yet retain some duff to cover the soil. Drive over the seeded and mowed land too with whatever you have to get better seed to soil contact (cultipacker is best....but ATV tires may make do). Radish and clover is a good suggestion....and rye makes a good cover crop while the clover establishes itself and may prevent weeds from taking over. Rain would seal the deal.

There is another recent thread on seeding with clover into a grassy area. Similar answers are posted. I would plant some (5 lbs/a) medium red clover, maybe a few pounds of white ladino, and maybe another variety or two of clover (crimson?). I almost always plant rye with clover. Lick Creek used to say "clover and rye go together like peanut butter and jelly". I'd also plant some groundhog radish.
 
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To help break up the soil compaction, you can try daikon tillage radishes. The have large tubers that can go down to 18" in the soil.

 
I've planted into old pasture several times, rarely have I tilled it.
If you are planting rye and clover like mentioned, my favorite is to kill and then burn the grass off. At that point, if you can time a rain or two, you don't even really need to cultipack.
 
My new farm was mostly pasture, so every food/kill plot I have put in has been through mostly 70+ years of pasture. I think the big thing is timing with rainfall and just making sure the pasture grasses are dead for at least a few weeks before seeding anything.

I have used nothing more than a backpack sprayer and a shoulder sling broadcast seeder to what most would consider success.

My brother has a farm that is connected to this one and he has really struggled. We soil tested, terminated, no-till drilled, broadcast seeded, or any combination of the above multiple times. He has had terrible luck in two of his ridgetop plots. In a few weeks he is going to roto-till and then seed a fall mix to see if that helps. I don't think it is a compaction issue, but at this point he is willing to try anything.

I would try without tillage for the first year. Once you get a full growing season in, then you should decide. Tillage brings in all kinds of problems of its own.
 
Thanks for everyone's reassurance. I'm going to give it a shot with not tilling. That will save me from having to pay someone to till it, which should cover most of my seed and fertilizer for the year. It has me questioning if I'll really need a tractor. We'll see how it goes. Thanks!
 
Thanks for everyone's reassurance. I'm going to give it a shot with not tilling. That will save me from having to pay someone to till it, which should cover most of my seed and fertilizer for the year. It has me questioning if I'll really need a tractor. We'll see how it goes. Thanks!

That's crazy talk!
 
Thanks for everyone's reassurance. I'm going to give it a shot with not tilling. That will save me from having to pay someone to till it, which should cover most of my seed and fertilizer for the year. It has me questioning if I'll really need a tractor. We'll see how it goes. Thanks!
I've thought allot about the equipment and tractor I now own. At one time I was all about stump grinding (which I am done with now) tilling the land, dragging and cultipacking and applying lots of fertilizers to crops I planted in rows with my 3 point JD 71 planter......yadda yadda.

Now, I am done with stumps.....but I still have things to pick up with the loader and grapple at times. Also I do some mowing with a flail mower.....and I need a tractor to operate my drill. But long gone are the tillage tools and prior methods used. I'm pretty sure that I could get along with a good wheeler and my sprayer if not for the mowing, loader work, and operating my grain drill. Still.....that tractor of mine can get allot of work done at times.

A high HP UTV with a PTO and mower may be all that would be needed if chosen wisely. This type of machine could handle mowing chores, spraying, broadcast seed and fertilizer needs and packing and roller crimping, etc. I often wonder if a good Brutus wouldn't be a great machine......but they cost as much as a tractor......or more.
 
I think I answered a similar post you had. Thatch. The seed has to make it's way to the soil. Tillage turn the thatch in the ground. Cultipackers help push it int othe thatch layer or push the thatch in the soil some. MY opinion there's 2 kinds of cultipackers. Lighter ones that help procide good seed to soil contact on tilled or lighter soils. No till in clay, you need a heavier cultipacker. Cold be as easy as adding weight, or need one with larger wheels, heavier diameter shaft, good bearings. The concrete filled ones made from culvert pipes are pretty good.


Working with thatch, you can get a drag harrow. It stirs up that thatch and works your seed into the soil. Tire drags don't stir the seed into the thatch that well. However, putting a tire ontop of the harrow makes the tetth work harder if needed. IT can depend on what is growing there. Some stuff is bulky sized leaves / stems. Some stuff compost quicker. Other stuff can be real fine and be a bit tough to get the seed down enough. Could just be too much of it there. Either the seed doesn't get down low, or the young plant can't grow enough to make it past it. Light rain vs heavy rain can help out too. Of course the dead stuff keeps moisture on the top soil layer. It can be a 2 edged sword.



Some no till seeds are easier than others. IT doesn't get easier than rye, turnips and some brassicas like daikon raddish are good. Some seeds are nautally very small, so tillage can be hurtful. Like clover. LAdino, medium red, and dutch clover works good.

IF you got the acerage, basic nothing to brag about food plot provide alot more than some shrubs and fruit trees. Minor oak tree maintance, like clearing competiton is another big bang for the buck.

Several years I did a foodplot with just a weedwhacker. I got an ATV, sprayer, cultipacker, lawn roller, discs, and spring tine harrows. Discs are nice for some minimum tillage in clay. Throw the big seeds down, run the dics once maybe twice Then throw the small seeds over it, ten cultipack, drag something like a log or tires, or run the heck out of it with your ATV wheels. I do something similar with my spring harrows and ATV wheels. I got a 1/2 ton truck and a 6x12 enclosed trailer that can only hold maybe 1100lbs, so I can't bring every tool I got. Also got a tow behind mower. Easily my most used implement. I also maintain a few miles of snowmobile trails and a few camper spots at my camp. Sometimes have parties with 3 or 4 campers and 2 or 3 tents onyop of the 20x20 cabin stuffed with people sleeping in there.

If you get the discs, you cna make a wooden box around the discs and add a 12v spreader. The box keeps the seed right on the discs. You can even add some plywood louvers to get the seed right into the the line of soil on the disc. Almost like a funnel. My coworker hot rodded a set of 6ft discs for his tractor. Works good enough He passed up on getting a seed drill. He also added a set of tire to the discs, so they dont dig too deep, much like a depth setting on a seed drill. The same disc will dig differently based on time of year ,soil moisture, or on different soils. Some guys have one tye on the hill and another type by creek beds. Or, like me clay at home sandy at camp.

Tractors don't quite save you time, they make you do more things. Definitely worth it though. Not everyboy needs 4wd or alot of goodies for them. Basic ones can be just fine.

We have several members who put out several acres of quality food with just an ATV and some basic
 
If the land isn't horribly uneven, I wouldn't worry about tilling. Be prepared to see a hundred years of weed seeds to show next year. Not all of them, but there will be surprises. Consider throwing in a hot rate of rye at some point before winter.
 
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