Deer hunting in IN suffers again....

[j-bird]

Gov. Pence signed to bills into law recently. SB109 which legalizes hunting preserves and treats captive deer as livestock and not wild animals. HB1231 allows the use of 5 high powered rifle calibers to be used to hunt deer.

My issue with the rifles is that the legislature should NOT be the mechanism to implement this change. The DNR found a 50/50 split among hunters for and against them and as such did not implement the change and suggested against it. Those applying pressure to the DNR for the use of HPR's then went to the legislature to get this accomplished. I see no NEED for HPR's in Indiana. The DNR has already set liberal bag limits, added additional seasons and expanded weapons to include x-bows and handgun cartridge rifle use. Allowing the legislature to dictate to the DNR what can and can not be used is NOT a good idea. What happens when the next group with enough political pull wants to end deer season altogether?

As for the captive deer bill I don't support it either. Deer behind a fence is a bad idea. They link CWD to these places all the time. These places are not going to be the one to foot the bill when CWD spreads across IN. The wild deer suffer, hunters will suffer and the entire tax paying base of Indiana will foot the bill. Hardly seems fair to me.

If I see anything it's that it isn't about "fair" anymore. It's about who ever has the most money using the political system to get what they want. The legislature voted against it's own state DNR....Who does that? We are no longer represented by people interested in the "greater good" or by folks that will admit that it isn't there place to make those sorts of decisions. They are simply lining their pockets and only interested in their own self preservation and their own agenda. Natural resources as a whole are up for sale in this country - you just have to grease the wheels of the political system with enough money to get what you want. As you can see I am just more than a little upset by all of this.

 

[bueller]

I wish IL would change to allow rifles. Way to many injured deer running off after the shot likely to succumb to their injuries later.

And shotgun slugs have been proven to be more dangerous to other hunters in the woods compared to rifles.

 

[gwm]

How long is the IN rifle season? What rifle caliber can you use and who made the choice of the five?

 

[j-bird]

Indiana previously limited rifles for use during our general firearms season which is 16 days long in the second half of november - this rule law will still limited the to that time. Rifles where limited to those that would shoot a .357 caliber bullet with a case length of 1.16 to 1.8 inches in length. This essentially limited them to .357 mag, .44 mag, .45 colt and the like. There are others but it was essentially designed to be limited to traditional handgun type cartridges. The new law allows the use of only:30-30, 30-06, .300, .243 & .308 They are limited to use on private land as well. Many in Indiana are concerned about the ability of these rounds to be able to travel significant distances in flat agricultural areas of central and northern Indiana. Some say that these rifles are no more a danger than shotgun slugs. All I know is that we don't NEED the effective ranges of some of these rounds to be effective at killing deer.

My issue with the entire rifle thing is how it can to be. Involving the state legislature is a mistake in my book. You are giving people way too much power over a subject they know next to nothing about. The DNR recommended against the use of these high-powered rifles because of the 50/50 division among hunters about there use......yet those who wanted them, pushed it thru the legislature and went around the DNR and the legislature ignored the DNR recommendation.

If the legislature is given the authority to determine what you CAN hunt with, someone will soon figure out they can use the legislature to tell you what you CAN'T hunt with! That is what I fear....this has paved a way for changes to come that may or may not be supported by the DNR, but a group with the political and financial backing to get what they want at the expense of the natural resources and sportsman.

 

[chickenlittle]

What exactly is a high powered rifle? Sounds like the cousin of the assault weapon.

 

[chickenlittle]

I have seen many suggestions lately that if you want to accomplish change in your state hunting regs, forget the DNR and go to the legislature. Seems your state has learned that lesson.

 

[chummer]

We switched from shotgun to riffle a few years ago. I have noticed no difference other than I have more options to hunt with(I like to take whatever gun I feel is going to be lucky that day). Probably different in your area but here there are very few place to hunt where you can shoot over 100 yards anyway. I still use my 12 ga if I am going to be hunting out of a stand with no shooting rail.

 

[sandbur]

We switched from shotgun to riffle a few years ago. I have noticed no difference other than I have more options to hunt with(I like to take whatever gun I feel is going to be lucky that day). Probably different in your area but here there are very few place to hunt where you can shoot over 100 yards anyway. I still use my 12 ga if I am going to be hunting out of a stand with no shooting rail.

Haviing always been a rifle hunter, even in close quarters, I am struggling with your choice of the shotgun and no shooting rail.
Or are you using buckshot?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Agree with NoFo. I see the same stuff here. Guys get 300 mags., 3 to 9 or 4 to 12 Leupold or Nikon, shoot 2 or 3 shots of practice .......... then miss several deer over a couple seasons. Must be the damn gun. Or scope is crap. These are shots under 100 yds. in mature woods. Shotgun with slugs ???? Deer better be climbing up the ladder into the stand. o_O

 

[chummer]

Haviing always been a rifle hunter, even in close quarters, I am struggling with your choice of the shotgun and no shooting rail.
Or are you using buckshot?

My shotgun weighs half of my riffles. I am very comfortable shooting 50-75 yards off hand with my shot gun. Riffle I do not like to shoot off hand at all. I have a few old stands without shooting rails. Any stands I have bought in the last few years I have made sure they have rails.

 

[j-bird]

Thing with rifles here is that in central and the northern part of the state we have large agriculture fields. I can see from one county road to the other......which is a mile away. Lots of folks like to sit at the edge of these large fields and let the range of the gun make up for their abilities as a hunter. A reasonable range of 150 yards is fine. We have no NEED to be able to double that by using some of these other rounds. If there is no threat - why not allow them on public land as well????? Why only these five calibers???? There seems to be a fair amount of logic missing and that scares me! I don't thing we need AR platforms in 308 and 10 round magazines to hunt deer or essentially. 300 win mag sniper rifle to hunt deer!

 

[Bill]

30-30, 30-06, .300, .243 & .308

Of the 5 listed I'd take the 30-30 and .243 off the worry table. 30-30 is a brush gun. No better than a shot gun. .243 has low powder and light bullet. Good to 200 yards. But I have a browning gold 12 gauge with a rifled 5 inch choke tube that patterns slugs at 2" at 100 yards.

30-06 and .300 win are both great rounds if you take the time to really learn them. Most guys won't hit chit past 100 to 200 yards. They'll over compensate for the .06 and think the .300 is a flat shooter. It's not.

308 is a great round, but, again if you don't truly study muzzle velocity, bullet coefficient, and altitude you're not going to understand the bullistic involved and you'll miss.

Of all the rounds listed I'd bet cold hard cash that most fudds are going to shoot over any deer past 150 yards.


If you're a wacko like us. All bets are off. :D

 

[Buckly]

The typical scenario here in NY on opening day is to have a case of slugs with you and when you see brown, empty the gun as fast as you can so you can reload and do it again! We went to rifle 3 years ago and I assumed it would be just like where I hunt in PA, people sit in stands and one shot one kill. Not happened. Everyone I know kept their shotguns just so they could keep blasting away. I really thought everybody would switch right to rifles but, it's been 3 years now and everyone still uses shotguns. You might be surprised at how many people won't switch.

 

[j-bird]

This is farm country and every tractor, back porch and combine has a 30-06 in it to bust yotes and other critters. Many will switch simply because they can and they feel they can increase their range. We are limited to 10 total rounds on the hunter, but that doesn't mean they won't burn thru them as quickly as possible. I agree that any weapon is only as effective as it's user and most are more accurate than the user - however a 300 win mag can shoot a long way. I do not fear the use of a 30-30 - I actually have one. It was my "critter gitter" before I ponied up for my 22-250!

Maybe I am wrong, but I still don't see a NEED. WANT is an entirely different thing. The whole thing of going around the DNR is still a bunch of BS in my opinion as well.

 

[chickenlittle]

My only complaint would be being limited to such boring chamberings. No .250, 6.5, .270, or 7? I love my .30-30 but give me options beyond what I can buy at Walmart.

But these are the type of reg changes that get people's shorts bunched up. You get guys boasting on the internet or the bar about 1000yd shots and watch people boil.

I have no idea how capable slug guns are nor am I interested. Now that I started hunting a shotgun only county in NY, I was happy to use one of my muzzleloaders instead.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

In the " woods " counties of Pa., shots are commonly 100 yds. or less. In the thickest areas ( such as where I hunt ), you can use any caliber you want - though I wouldn't go as low as a .222 myself. 30-30, .243, 6MM, 25-06, .270, 30-06, .308 - all good guns. The more open, farming counties - guys shoot farther. Not as far as mid-west guys, probably - but 150 to 300 yds. isn't uncommon. Those guys use appropriate loads and longer-range gear because they need it.

My comments in post #10 refer to guys that spend big $$$ on fancy, high-power rigs and then miss deer at 40 - 50 yds. out of a tree stand !! How does THAT happen ??? Not enough practice ......... afraid of the blast of a big gun ??? We have guys in my camp that miss deer every time they see them, but they sure have impressive rifles and scopes !!!

 

[j-bird]

This bill is just the tip of the iceberg. I expect they will open it to all calibers larger than .243 in the next few years simply because they can. The "Wal-mart" calibers are exactly what these are and I think the outdoor market retailers had a significant say in what was allowed. I can kill a deer just as effectively with my 12 gauge slug (rifled barrel) at 100 yards or my smokepole as I can with a 30-30. And that was my point we don't NEED the capabilities of a high-powered rifle to kill deer in this state. The thing is what happens when that deer is at 200 yards or more. Before, you pretty much had to watch.....now, these guys are going to be blasting away. They won't truly practice at those ranges, but it won't stop them from shooting at those ranges either. Those that hunt field edges of the large ag fields here will have opportunities to shoot 200 and 300 yards and further and that is what many folks fear. Like I said some areas you can see for a mile or more....because it's wide open and flat corn or bean field.

Maybe - long term this is a non-issue....I hope so. I just don't like the legislature screwing with my hunting that's going to end badly.......that I am pretty sure of!

 

[Bill]

Sorry but the .243 is an amazing long range gun. I have taken 300 lb. Mulies in Montana@480 yards. The 87 grain Nosler is lethal. In fact if a young guy asked me what he needs in North America besides Grizz I would tell him a PSE bow. inline .50 cal mz, .243 and a .308. Good to go.

I'll keep my 7mm rem mag and 120 grain bullets. 700 yard Mulies in WY.