Critique my '23 fall plot plan

[Wind Gypsy]

As of right now, i'm abandoning my lick creek'ish split plot plan and going to plant the same blend on nearly all the plots with the exception of a 10' clover/chicory perimeter ring where things are more likely to be shaded. Also like the idea of perennial clover/chicory for when i have burn down the rye/clover from prior year but have young sorghum coming up for screen as an alternative because the sorghum got browsed heavily last year when young and the main plots were nuked.

I'm about to finalize order that would result in the below blend to be drilled in July into last year's rye/clover after spraying for burndown. I would follow up with 100# of rye surface broadcasted around labor day. The poundage for each is way higher than green cover seeds mix calculator would come up with and generally lower than what was used in lick creek mix or other established lick creek nock-off blends. This will receive heavy browse pressure so the rates seemed reasonable to me. Assuming AWP will largely be wiped out, forage oats will be heavily browsed (and about a month from frost kill), and clover will hardly be started by the time rye is broadcasted. Idea is that there will be sufficient rye/clover to keep things covered through the next spring/summer when i plant the following fall plots.

#/acre
Forage Oats 28
AWP 35
Radish 5
PTT 0.5
Fixation C 4
Alsike C 2
MRC 3

Thoughts or comments welcome, i'll likely finalize my order this evening.

 

[Foggy47]

I'd add some collards or DER.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'd add some collards or DER.

Primary reason for brassica category being mostly represented by radish is giving them more real estate to work on my hard pan issues (and the deer seem to love em). The 0.5# PTT came from the 4# of leftover northwoods sweet feast blend from last year that i'm going to throw in with the radish but it also has some rape and kale in it. I have some DER left over from spring frost seeding order though too if I wanted to add it.

 

[Foggy47]

Primary reason for brassica category being mostly represented by radish is giving them more real estate to work on my hard pan issues (and the deer seem to love em). The 0.5# PTT came from the 4# of leftover northwoods sweet feast blend from last year that i'm going to throw in with the radish but it also has some rape and kale in it. I have some DER left over from spring frost seeding order though too if I wanted to add it.

I have some of the same plans as you do. I'm going to terminate my clovers and rye in late June (in some areas of my existing clover and rye)........then drill a mix of brassica into that expired crop.....and roller crimp the rye to get some mulch. However......I did not consider planting the next years (and fall) replacement clovers at the same time.......rather I plan to broadcast in late August......at which time I would broadcast the clover and 100 lbs / acre of rye over the now (hopefully) established brassica.

I have had so much problem with clover out-competing my brsica.....that I remain uncertain whether I should start the replacement clovers in July with the brassica or wait until late August.

Hope some knowledgeable folks will chime in on this issue. I have issues with broadcasting on my sandy soils.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I have some of the same plans as you do. I'm going to terminate my clovers and rye in late June (in some areas of my existing clover and rye)........then drill a mix of brassica into that expired crop.....and roller crimp the rye to get some mulch. However......I did not consider planting the next years (and fall) replacement clovers at the same time.......rather I plan to broadcast in late August......at which time I would broadcast the clover and 100 lbs / acre of rye over the now (hopefully) established brassica.

I have had so much problem with clover out-competing my brsica.....that I remain uncertain whether I should start the replacement clovers in July with the brassica or wait until late August.

Hope some knowledgeable folks will chime in on this issue. I have issues with broadcasting on my sandy soils.

I get established perennial clover outcompeting new brassica plantings but with my little experience it seems like the clear edge goes to brassicas when they are planted at the same time. Maybe soil type has something to do with it? In a lot of my fields clover is MIA right now but i'm guessing that is from residual herbicide injury from my triclopyr snafu last year. Want to make sure I get a better stand next spring.

Also, i'm forgetting when I should be worried about rye seed becoming viable.. googled yesterday without success. I definitely want to terminate before then to make sure the other blend of candy crops gets a head start on it and I have more palatable young rye during hunting season.

 

[omicron1792]

Looks like a great plan Gypsy.

 

[Tree Spud]

You have a lot at high rates which may stunt growth especially in bulb plants.

I prefer forage brassicas like appin forage turnips or winfred forage brassica. Lots or green forage that will regrow after multiple browsing. Deep till radish like daikon will get ~ 2' deep and are a good choice for breaking up hard pan.

 

[Tree Spud]

I have some of the same plans as you do. I'm going to terminate my clovers and rye in late June (in some areas of my existing clover and rye)........then drill a mix of brassica into that expired crop.....and roller crimp the rye to get some mulch. However......I did not consider planting the next years (and fall) replacement clovers at the same time.......rather I plan to broadcast in late August......at which time I would broadcast the clover and 100 lbs / acre of rye over the now (hopefully) established brassica.

I have had so much problem with clover out-competing my brsica.....that I remain uncertain whether I should start the replacement clovers in July with the brassica or wait until late August.

Hope some knowledgeable folks will chime in on this issue. I have issues with broadcasting on my sandy soils.

I over seed my clovers in Sept. Allows for some growth but also root establish. They do well emerging strong in spring.

 

[Westwind]

@Wind Gypsy @Foggy47 My coffee hasn’t kicked in. MRC and DER?

I like your mix and I like the idea of going all one mix vs Lickcreek strips. I need to simplify as much as possible.

We have had drought conditions here and my spring stuff has been stuck in 1st gear. I feel like I’m going to be dealing with some weeds and hard pan . I feel like I need to emphasize the Rye which you are certainly doing with the September broadcast… I also have a 50# bag of Groundhog radishes in the shed.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

@Wind Gypsy @Foggy47 My coffee hasn’t kicked in. MRC and DER?

I like your mix and I like the idea of going all one mix vs Lickcreek strips. I need to simplify as much as possible.

We have had drought conditions here and my spring stuff has been stuck in 1st gear. I feel like I’m going to be dealing with some weeds and hard pan . I feel like I need to emphasize the Rye which you are certainly doing with the September broadcast… I also have a 50# bag of Groundhog radishes in the shed.

MRC: medium red clover
DER: dwarf Essex rape

I like the LC strips idea because it would likely result in better brassicas but the main thing I’m trying to get away from is multiple planting trips to the land. Calibrate the drill once and plant it all. I’m not too worried about July planted peas and clover being unpalatable for deer come hunting season and the oats will be gone or frost killed by late oct when there is hopefully a nice carpet of young rye coming up.

Eventually i might get away from so much rye and throw some triticale/winter wheat in as well but for now I want all the help I can get with fighting competition from weeds.

 

[Foggy47]

Regarding rye becoming "viable". The rye I drilled into my plots last fall (late August) grew to about 10" tall before winter set in. Now that rye is mostly 3 feet + high and is heading out now, and will become viable seedheads sometime in July. I am watching it closely to prevent this. I plan to terminate the rye and clover(s) below with 2qts / acre Glyphosate in late June. (I may add 1 pint of 24d to the gly). Then I will drill my fall brassica mix. (and I am still considering adding the replacement clovers too). I will roller crimp the standing but dead rye after planting my brassica to form a mulch. And hope we get rainfall.

I then will broadcast 100lbs of winter rye over the established brassica in late August.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Thanks to @Native Hunter for the timely reminder.. I forgot chicory. So i'll probably add 1# chicory/acre to the mix.

 

[Foggy47]

I'm again considering adding some chicory......now that weeds are less of an issue to me. Keeping "roots in the ground" serves to "crowd out" the ability of most weeds to find a void and get a start. Maybe just a pound / acre as Wind Gypsy says above. The thing with chicory is.....it's relatively expensive seed if you put down allot of it.....and then the weed control can be a real issue. If I add a pound at $6 per pound to 5 acres .....that's $30. Not too bad. In the past I think I planted a pure stand at 6 lbs / acre and while the deer hammered it....they basically "mined" the chicory into the winter....even digging through a foot or more of snow to get at it. Tho...at that time,.it seemed a bit expensive for an annual crop. My methods are changing and recently I'm all about diversity and mixes......gotta look at things differently now.

 

[Westwind]

MRC: medium red clover
DER: dwarf Essex rape

ARRGH! I KNEW I should have known those abbreviations!

 

[35-acre]

I have regretted for 2 years that I burned off my clover (chemically). I'm focused on trying to establish it again. I'll be seeding my field this weekend actually as we're finally supposed to get some rain. 2 weeks ago I sprayed all of the crap in my field (and I mean just unwanted weeds were all that would come up).

I'm going to:
Lime & fertilize
Seed (clover - two types), buckwheat and oats. The latter two will be cover crop to protect the clover.
Mow
Pack
Pray (for rain)

 

[Foggy47]

I have regretted for 2 years that I burned off my clover (chemically). I'm focused on trying to establish it again. I'll be seeding my field this weekend actually as we're finally supposed to get some rain. 2 weeks ago I sprayed all of the crap in my field (and I mean just unwanted weeds were all that would come up).

I'm going to:
Lime & fertilize
Seed (clover - two types), buckwheat and oats. The latter two will be cover crop to protect the clover.
Mow
Pack
Pray (for rain)

What chemical did you use to "burn off" your clover. I've always been able to grow a nice stand of clover here.

 

[356]

We have had drought conditions here and my spring stuff has been stuck in 1st gear. I feel like I’m going to be dealing with some weeds and hard pan . I feel like I need to emphasize the Rye which you are certainly doing with the September broadcast… I also have a 50# bag of Groundhog radishes in the shed.

Our drought is getting pretty bad here in NW Missouri. My warm weather plot that started with great promise self-terminated, and I have 200# of soy and 50# of milo that are waiting to get into the ground. I am on the road for the next two weeks, so if rain does come, I'm not in a position to drill them into the ground. I've read of successful late plantings of soy and milo, so I am hoping for similar results.

As far as the OP, Wind Gypsy, your mix looks pretty good...I would cut down #/acre, but that is based on NW Missouri clay loam.

 

[Westwind]

We might get a little rain Sunday. I was torn, have some last year‘s clover that looks pretty good but had some weeds growing up through it. I mowed it high yesterday, I couldn’t manage to leave it alone even though I knew it was a bad idea!

 

[356]

We might get a little rain Sunday. I was torn, have some last year‘s clover that looks pretty good but had some weeds growing up through it. I mowed it high yesterday, I couldn’t manage to leave it alone even though I knew it was a bad idea!

I am learning that Gly can be used on clover to control weeds (Sturgis) using 1 ounce per gallon. I would be interested in hearing from those who have treated their grass weed issues in clover with a mild herbicide.

I have tested some areas around the house with a mild solution of gly with success…it is slow to kill (brownup in two weeks, not one), but it does seem to work. I am trying to get away from mowing clover, but will be testing using both methods on a small areas of my clover plot.

 

[Foggy47]

I am learning that Gly can be used on clover to control weeds (Sturgis) using 1 ounce per gallon. I would be interested in hearing from those who have treated their grass weed issues in clover with a mild herbicide.

I have tested some areas around the house with a mild solution of gly with success…it is slow to kill (brownup in two weeks, not one), but it does seem to work. I am trying to get away from mowing clover, but will be testing using both methods on a small areas of my clover plot.

Yeah......but others will tell you that is how to make those "weeds" more glyphosate resistant.....thus the current need for different chemicals or stronger applications. Vicious circle.