Coronavirus

[Knehrke]

Just tell them you have an underlying medical condition that doesn’t allow you to wear a mask. It’s discrimination if they don’t let you in. Let them know you will press charges if they don’t. Anyone know what HIPAA is all about?


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Yep, I do. How do you think HIPAA applies to this situation? I'm interested in your perspective.

If I were a small business owner that required masking, I would make sure that I had at least several alternatives in place in case of a case. Including requiring that a patron who won't mask maintain at least six feet of separation from other patrons or employees. That is reasonable and complies fully with anti-discrimination laws.

 

[Telemark]

Oh, I'm not claiming that the community is unimpeachable by virtue of their profession by any means. I'm simply saying that the coordinated effort that it would take to pull off a cover-up on this scale is simply unimaginable. Medical professionals can be dingbats just like anybody else. But to get everybody to agree on this deception, from low to high, it just isn't feasible. Now, if you were talking about a more limited set of outcomes with vested financial interest at stake...sure. Plausible. As Chummer said, there's been some nasty stuff that's been done by our government with the help of the medical profession over the years. Man, I teach this stuff to students - if you can't learn from the past, you're doomed to repeat it, right? Administering unvalidated vaccines to minority communities, using Africa as a pharmaceutical playground for testing, forced sterilization. The list goes on. But just not at this scale. You'd have to postulate that other countries are in on it, too. Occam's razor. Sometimes the numbers are just the numbers.

I didn't read it as a coordinated conspiracy or cover-up. It's as simple of increasing behavior by incentivizing it. If you get money for having COVID patients, you report more COVID patients. It's no more complicated than that. By all accounts there weren't enough tests to go around, so cases were being reported as positive even if they were just presumptive.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Just tell them you have an underlying medical condition that doesn’t allow you to wear a mask. It’s discrimination if they don’t let you in. Let them know you will press charges if they don’t. Anyone know what HIPAA is all about?


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Yep, I do. How do you think HIPAA applies to this situation? I'm interested in your perspective.

If I were a small business owner that required masking, I would make sure that I had at least several alternatives in place in case of a case. Including requiring that a patron who won't mask maintain at least six feet of separation from other patrons or employees. That is reasonable and complies fully with anti-discrimination laws.

It’s like 115 pages or something of your rights. Almost anything under the sun could be considered a violation. Hell just asking a question could be a violation.


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[Buckly]

Telemark
“I didn't read it as a coordinated conspiracy or cover-up. It's as simple of increasing behavior by incentivizing it. If you get money for having COVID patients, you report more COVID patients. It's no more complicated than that. By all accounts there weren't enough tests to go around, so cases were being reported as positive even if they were just presumptive.”


Right it’s not a conspiracy to an evil end but the fuzzy accounting makes us all question the actual effects of this thing. And when people question, then they lose faith that the government is really telling you the truth. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t , maybe they are partially. I’ll give you an example right from the NYS dept of health. With numbers like this there are going to be questions and frankly unease.

AS of May 8. NYS adept of health death numbers from nursing homes

Kings County. Confirmed. 170. Assumed. 541
Bronx. Confirmed. 233. Assumed. 452
‘Richmond. Confirmed. 90. Assumed. 160

it goes on and on. Now maybe they‘re right, maybe not. It puts a lot of doubt out there on true deaths from this.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I picked this up from Twitter...



Brad Freking is a hog farmer in Jackson county, MN. He has been involved trying to get the JBS pork plant in Worthington operational again. As of today, Nobles county, MN has 1,230 cases of Kung Flu with 2 deaths. Both of the deaths were elderly. National guard was down there last week helping them do the testing.

 

[H20fwler]

Just tell them you have an underlying medical condition that doesn’t allow you to wear a mask. It’s discrimination if they don’t let you in. Let them know you will press charges if they don’t. Anyone know what HIPAA is all about?


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I feel they are already discriminating by having a sign up that states no-one sixteen years of age or younger is allowed to be in their store. It's a Menards...they don't serve alcohol or have strippers or anything? The people most at risk are 65 and older, so far they haven't banned them, probably because that focus group has financial resources and would sue for discrimination.
That they hired actual Pinkerton IMO is a very lame move....that is the security force that threw people off their land in the late 1800's for the rail roads and cracked skulls and shot union members that were on strike in the early 1900's clear into the 1950's. Pinkertons seem more like thugs hired by big business to do things real police will not, they have quite the history of trampling on civil liberties and the Constitution for money.

 

[wooduck]

It’s like 115 pages or something of your rights. Almost anything under the sun could be considered a violation. Hell just asking a question could be a violation.


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No lawyer here but I think the statues you are trying to press involve PUBLIC places most business locations are private property , example no shoes, no shirt ect ever been in the bar , sign on the back wall says we reserve the right to not serve anyone

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

And to be clear I believe a business should be able to deny anyone for any reason.

I’m just trying to put a spin on something where in today’s world you can sue anyone for discrimination and at least settle out of court.


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[H20fwler]

No lawyer here but I think the statues you are trying to press involve PUBLIC places most business locations are private property , example no shoes, no shirt ect ever been in the bar , sign on the back wall says we reserve the right to not serve anyone

Very true, but only goes so far. Businesses cannot say no blacks/no women/no gays/no fat people etc.. There are laws on what constitutes discrimination and what are the business owners rights vs the publics rights.

And that is my whole concern over the CV threat...where exactly do those lines fall as far as the Constitution and Bill of Rights vs health scare? People are being banned from public beaches/parks/boat ramps and arrested for being closer than six feet in public or for trying to earn a living.
Very strange times.

 

[Buckly]

I remember back years ago 60 minutes did a piece on this country club that had a big sign up on their tennis courts. WHITES ONLY! It caused a big uproar. After further investigation and Much ado they found out that sign meant white shoes,shirt and shorts on the tennis courts. . Big embarrassment. Lol.

 

[SereneWoods]

I remember back years ago 60 minutes did a piece on this country club that had a big sign up on their tennis courts. WHITES ONLY! It caused a big uproar. After further investigation and Much ado they found out that sign meant white shoes,shirt and shorts on the tennis courts. . Big embarrassment. Lol.

I remember visiting family in south Chesapeake area of Virginia in the mid 80’s and had to take a child to the doctor. I was shocked to see a “colored waiting room” sign. I thought that had all gone away by early 70’s with the civil rights efforts of the 60’s.

 

[Northbound]

I wasn't happy to buy a mask in menards but absolutely respect the requirement. Most importantly they're a private business and should be able to manage themselves.

Secondly I think is fair to the employees. The employees had mask rules in effect prior to customer mask requirement. The experts seem to agree the mask protects other people not yourself. If this is fact then I sure wish people would gripe more about seatbelt requirements which is a law most people accept for a reason not understood by myself which has no affect on other people.

Lastly if you think boycotting menards because you didn't like the mask rule matters.... do the math on what they're making selling those masks at the door. Very smart business move imo

 

[Knehrke]

I didn't read it as a coordinated conspiracy or cover-up. It's as simple of increasing behavior by incentivizing it. If you get money for having COVID patients, you report more COVID patients. It's no more complicated than that. By all accounts there weren't enough tests to go around, so cases were being reported as positive even if they were just presumptive.

That sounds plausible, but I haven't seen any evidence to support it. Speaking from experience, my friends who are hospitalists were telling patients with COVID like symptoms but who weren't critical to go home and quarantine as if they were positive - because of a lack of tests. But those cases were never counted as COVID-positive. And as I mentioned before, incentivizing false positives just doesn't make economic sense. We are losing $130,000,000 a month in revenue from the hiatus on elective procedures. The only way to recover that money is to reduce the number of COVID cases so that we can open back up. We'd be crazy to report more cases than we have. I can't speak for other medical centers, and I admit when there's money at stake people can make dicey calls, but the economics of the situation don't compute.

 

[wooduck]

You should do a search laws New York statue # 2120 a , big overreach by gov concerning contagions and public health the laws been on the books more than a year

 

[Knehrke]

Yep. Got it. Not sure of the relevance to the discussion at hand regarding medical professionals padding COVID numbers for cash, but I can see the general relevance given the current situation. We had a few folks who refused to quarantine and were forced to do so - is that a bad thing? I get that it's a denial of personal liberties, but we're seeing some crazy stuff, spitting on old people, licking groceries and putting them back. When do you cross the line to being a danger to society? So long as there is due process, and it looks like there needs to be agreement between a provider and magistrate, with solid evidence, I don't disagree in principle. I may disagree in particular if the statute is misused, but that's uniformly true of any law. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, right?

 

[Bill]

Felt normal today!

headed south on the parkway. Look at the north side and there’s an old cuda missing a front tire on the shoulder with older gent standing there.
I broke the law and used a do “not use u turn”
Turns out a 73 year old guy in his 68 barracuda lost a front tire. It wiped out his front drum and exploded the brake wheel cylinder.

I said have you called anyone? “No”. Me. Got cell phone? Him, Yeah but the battery is dead....

the guy had been there 30 minutes!

Got him fixed up with a tow, no masks involved and I shook his hand, Glove free!
If I die from that, so be it,,,,,,

 

[Mortenson]

Hopefully you don't kill the old man! Haha jk... good deed.

 

[Telemark]

That sounds plausible, but I haven't seen any evidence to support it. Speaking from experience, my friends who are hospitalists were telling patients with COVID like symptoms but who weren't critical to go home and quarantine as if they were positive - because of a lack of tests. But those cases were never counted as COVID-positive. And as I mentioned before, incentivizing false positives just doesn't make economic sense. We are losing $130,000,000 a month in revenue from the hiatus on elective procedures. The only way to recover that money is to reduce the number of COVID cases so that we can open back up. We'd be crazy to report more cases than we have. I can't speak for other medical centers, and I admit when there's money at stake people can make dicey calls, but the economics of the situation don't compute.

Actually it adds up perfectly. Your scenario assumes hospitals get to decide when they can begin elective surgeries, but they can't. If hospitals are not allowed to do elective surgeries before June 1st, then it makes sense to get Corona money before that date.

 

[H20fwler]

Yep. Got it. Not sure of the relevance to the discussion at hand regarding medical professionals padding COVID numbers for cash, but I can see the general relevance given the current situation. We had a few folks who refused to quarantine and were forced to do so - is that a bad thing? I get that it's a denial of personal liberties, but we're seeing some crazy stuff, spitting on old people, licking groceries and putting them back. When do you cross the line to being a danger to society? So long as there is due process, and it looks like there needs to be agreement between a provider and magistrate, with solid evidence, I don't disagree in principle. I may disagree in particular if the statute is misused, but that's uniformly true of any law. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, right?

I hadn’t heard anything about the elder abuse or licking things at stores, that is terrible and those people doing that should be prosecuted to the fullest for it.
I think in looking at the bigger picture it may not just be that certain individuals in the medical professions could be padding numbers for personal agendas or gains. I think it is very possible that things are being put out that are misleading so that some can receive financial gain/funding at city and state levels for future pet projects or the chance to receive a bigger piece of government pie when this all shakes out. It only takes a few greedy corrupt individuals that are hungry for financial gain or power trying to use the epidemic scare to cheat the system and cast a negative light where it shouldn’t be.
In my area our local hospitals have laid off over 25% of their medical staff and Family Practice operations have almost completely shut down. Our local hospitals have sat almost empty through all of this. I know the situation has been different in big cities within specific hot zones.
I believe that we will all be surprised to see what information leaks out in the next months and years as things come to light exposing how things have been mishandled and things done correctly...and how some big business and government over reach happened.

 

[Knehrke]

Actually it adds up perfectly. Your scenario assumes hospitals get to decide when they can begin elective surgeries, but they can't. If hospitals are not allowed to do elective surgeries before June 1st, then it makes sense to get Corona money before that date.

Could be true. But we've been doing electives since April 28th, and I can only speak from experience. I suspect it's like H20fwler states: there's bound to be a few bad apples in every bushel. I like to think most docs are ethical. And some government officials lol.