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Our country is very dysfunctional and that shows throughout this thread. The strategy and solutions for controlling Covid are simple but not fun or easy. It requires long-term sacrifices for your community that Americans are unwilling to make on their own. It's easier to pretend and ignore and say its not really a problem or its someone else's problem. The reasons for that are varied and complex but it is what it is.

If we had smart and disciplined leaders, we'd be in a better place today. We'd have a population broadly doing the key practices: washing hands, wearing masks, and social distancing. States and counties would be identifying outbreaks and knocking them down so people never have to line up for hours to get a test and long before hospitals start to fill up - followed by morgues and refrigerated trucks. We'd have solid plans for how schools reopen all across the country. Easily understood guidelines for how business can keep their employees and customers safe. We wouldn't have state-wide shutdowns of businesses again. But we don't have those leaders encouraging us us do the right things.

That's not where we are. We're here in a colossal job killing mess that is now of our own making with no strategy and no plan. You want to blame China for this? At the end of March, sure. 3 months later, this is all on us. I have no hope that we'll easily get out of this darkness. I'd love to think our leaders might take Dr. Fauci's words now but I doubt they will. He said “We’ve got to own this, reset this and say OK, let’s stop this nonsense and figure out how can we get our control over this now."

But nah, let's stick with fighting each other instead of that virus.
 
chickenlittle said:
Our country is very dysfunctional and that shows throughout this thread. The strategy and solutions for controlling Covid are simple but not fun or easy. It requires long-term sacrifices for your community that Americans are unwilling to make on their own. It's easier to pretend and ignore and say its not really a problem or its someone else's problem. The reasons for that are varied and complex but it is what it is.

If we had smart and disciplined leaders, we'd be in a better place today. We'd have a population broadly doing the key practices: washing hands, wearing masks, and social distancing. States and counties would be identifying outbreaks and knocking them down so people never have to line up for hours to get a test and long before hospitals start to fill up - followed by morgues and refrigerated trucks. We'd have solid plans for how schools reopen all across the country. Easily understood guidelines for how business can keep their employees and customers safe. We wouldn't have state-wide shutdowns of businesses again. But we don't have those leaders encouraging us us do the right things.

That's not where we are. We're here in a colossal job killing mess that is now of our own making with no strategy and no plan. You want to blame China for this? At the end of March, sure. 3 months later, this is all on us. I have no hope that we'll easily get out of this darkness. I'd love to think our leaders might take Dr. Fauci's words now but I doubt they will. He said “We’ve got to own this, reset this and say OK, let’s stop this nonsense and figure out how can we get our control over this now."

But nah, let's stick with fighting each other instead of that virus.
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12 month life insurance tontine. Whoever survives is going to get paid.

Google it. My pool already has $164,000,000 in coverage on 164 healthy people under the age of 40. Whomever among us makes it through these dark times is going to be very very rich. Tontine expires on July 4th 2021 and all accumulated death benefits will be conveyed to the survivors. If 10% buy the farm, that leaves a payout of $110,810 for every person that contributed $500 and lived.

22,162% return.
 
I paid for ten of them, so I'll clear over a million for $5000.
 
If 10% (of presumably healthy people) buy the farm, I'm not sure if the insurance company will remain a financially viable entity. And I don't know if you'll have anywhere to spend your money, anyway. But like they say with Lotto - a dollar and a dream.
 
I think it is good to open up discussions about anything that effects ALL our lives, yes this is a habitat page, but also yes we are real people that are all going through the same thing together. Not one of us is unaffected by this mess and to simply ignore the topic because it doesn't belong on a habitat site would also have to agree that some other topics shouldn't be discussed like trail cameras. If I wanted to discuss my mothers cancer then yes that is inappropriate for a habitat site, but would you ask me to remove or lock the post?

I am simply exctatic that Trump is moving the Covid tracking away from the CDC to the National Guard. As long as the methodology to counting is transparent nobody can complain. I think we can all agree that if I had terminal cancer and passed away, and also had the flu, I didn't die from the flu. Clearly they use common core math at the CDC, I have posted this here before but it is a good time to remind everyone that until now, the CDC counts Covid deaths by counting the Covid Code on any death certificate (they also still today lump in Pneumonia and Influenza deaths with Covid deaths...). ANY death certificate that has a Covid code on it is counted as a Covid death it doesn't matter if they were mangled in a car accident, if Covid is on the death certificate... it is a Covid death... the policy on what determines IF the Covid code goes on a death certificate is left up to each State to decide the policy. NOT very sciencey...

If Covid was passed by farting and the government told everyone to wear a butt plug, half the country would shove that thing up there with a smile in their face and **** shame me for not doing it... that is simply a fact worth sharing.
 
In this area, all nursing homes, assisted living have to have employees tested every week. Then patients are tested if there’s a case. One of our local homes had a positive test so they tested the whole facility. 22 positives. Cause for concern however not one person shows a symptom. These are supposedly the most vulnerable. The most likely to get sick and have bad outcomes but in this case not one sick person. Now what are the odds? What do we actually have here? Bad testing maybe. 22 cases in an elder facility and not a symptom. again What are the odds? Testing is just not anywhere near accurate and too many decisions on these bad numbers coming out now.
 
Buckly said:
In this area, all nursing homes, assisted living have to have employees tested every week. Then patients are tested if there’s a case. One of our local homes had a positive test so they tested the whole facility. 22 positives. Cause for concern however not one person shows a symptom. These are supposedly the most vulnerable. The most likely to get sick and have bad outcomes but in this case not one sick person. Now what are the odds? What do we actually have here? Bad testing maybe. 22 cases in an elder facility and not a symptom. again What are the odds? Testing is just not anywhere near accurate and too many decisions on these bad numbers coming out now.
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I have delved through the CDC site for nearly a month now to get information on Covid, the only answer I simply cannot find is "how accurate is Covid testing". I can get a general answer about the accuracy of antibody testing, but not the accuracy of Covid infection testing.
 
Explain how Jimmy Johnson tests positive so NASCAR puts him in quarantine until he passes two tests in back to back days. He never has a symptom and on day 5 and 6 he passes the test. He is tested every week so explain how he gets rid of a virus that use to take 14-30 days to shed in 5. Common sense would say it was a false positive. What if all the asymptotic people are false positives? So much of this needs questioning.
 
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Knehrke said:
If 10% (of presumably healthy people) buy the farm, I'm not sure if the insurance company will remain a financially viable entity. And I don't know if you'll have anywhere to spend your money, anyway. But like they say with Lotto - a dollar and a dream.
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MetLife has enough cash on hand to pay out every single policy in force.
 
I encourage ALL of you to follow Alex Berenson. You dont need to be a twitter user. Just look him up on Twitter. He post fascinating data and FACTS almost every day. He is actually doing journalism. He is one of those guys that quit the New York Dumpster Times cause they are fake news. He is a liberal but the lefties wont like anything that he post.



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chummer said:
Explain how Jimmy Johnson tests positive so NASCAR puts him in quarantine until he passes two tests in back to back days. He never has a symptom and on day 5 and 6 he passes the test. He is tested every week so explain how he gets rid of a virus that use to take 14-30 days to shed in 5. Common sense would say it was a false positive. What if all the asymptotic people are false positives? So much of this needs questioning.
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I like what the PGA is doing. If you test positive but have no symptoms you can still play. Either with a group of similar false positives or as a single. They’ve come to the conclusion if you test positive and have no symptoms then test negative you really never had it. Just extrapolate that out to the whole country with all this testing and you can see the clear picture.
 
Just sharing data for data-sharing sake, though I find the numbers fascinating and at least in my mind the data begs QUITE a few questions...

The county where I live in North Florida is approaching 3,000 cases now yet we've only had 10 deaths, and six of the deaths were in a single long-term care facility.

If I'm doing my math right that's a survival rate AMONG THOSE INFECTED of roughly 99.7%.

The survival rate to date for the entire population who have been out and about with mixed mask usage is 99.995%.
 
bigbendmarine said:
Just sharing data for data-sharing sake, though I find the numbers fascinating and at least in my mind the data begs QUITE a few questions...

The county where I live in North Florida is approaching 3,000 cases now yet we've only had 10 deaths, and six of the deaths were in a single long-term care facility.

If I'm doing my math right that's a survival rate AMONG THOSE INFECTED of roughly 99.7%.

The survival rate to date for the entire population who have been out and about with mixed mask usage is 99.995%.
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We also know now that the number of positives is completely wrong. So look at it from a few different angles.

1. Those numbers assume all infected people are known and proven via effective testing. Both of those assumptions are laughable (not at you, but the situation). Given the high number of positives that show no symptoms or outright fraudulently reported positives, the infected rate could be many times higher, making the survival 99.9997%.

2. If we then throw out any of the nursing home deaths that were counted as died from covid instead of died with covid, or those that chose not to treat due to the deteriorated condition of the patient, the survival rate would now go as high as 99.999999984%.

3. If we also add back all the tests that came back negative but were intentionally withheld from the denominator, the survival rate now goes to 99.9999999999999999999999999999994%. You get the picture.

We have just defeated the rona with a pencil.
 
The numbers are so low that at this point it isn't even a pandemic, if the mortality numbers were tallied accurately in the first place we would have never even called it a pandemic. Which is again why I fully support Trump taking the Covid counting from the CDC and handing it over to the National Guard. This isn't just in the US, there are many countries that are questioning the tallies in their own areas.

Today our Governor AKA King Andy changed the rules for bar/restaurants that have been open to "you can't buy alcohol at a bar/restaurant without ordering food". :emoji_mask:
 
chummer said:
Explain how Jimmy Johnson tests positive so NASCAR puts him in quarantine until he passes two tests in back to back days. He never has a symptom and on day 5 and 6 he passes the test. He is tested every week so explain how he gets rid of a virus that use to take 14-30 days to shed in 5. Common sense would say it was a false positive. What if all the asymptotic people are false positives? So much of this needs questioning.
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Well technicallly johnson’s last race prior to Indy was on June 28th the test was probably a day or two before that. Which was negative. The next test wasn’t until the following week. Which he tested positive After his wife did. So if his wife had it already And transmitted it to him around the 28th by the following race in Kentucky that he was able to run. it could have been roughly about 2 weeks from the time he could have had the virus. Now I’m not saying that he did have it, because I like you think it’s a pretty Quick turnaround. I’m just saying possibly plausible? He is a health freak too running marathons all the time. If anyone could get rid of it in 2 weeks maybe it’s him. Or maybe it’s still just false positive. Either way strange for sure.
 
I haven't kept up with how symptomatic Jimmy Johnson was (or wasn't) but PLENTY of folks have no symptoms or briefly have mild symptoms. My wife's a physician, I manage her practice, and we've had 3 of our employees with it now. One was completely asymptomatic and only got tested due to her boyfriend having it. The second also caught it from a boyfriend, with her worst symtpoms being, using her words a case of "the sniffles" lasting two days. She said she felt great again on day three. And finally we had one who who caught it from her husband and equated her case to a cold, with a severe headache on day 1 being the worst of her symptoms. Her husband got hit harder than she did and equated it to the flu, but even in his case he never went to the hospital and around day 5 he suddenly felt dramatically better (possibly due to my wife giving him a certain medication, but that's all I'm going to say about that).

Fascinatingly (to me at least) we have two employees who work in the same room with the person who had "the sniffles," and they sat in the same small room together much of one full day and even used the same phone repeatedly to call / talk with patients. We thought for sure that at least the two employees working with the sick employee would contract COVID, but they didn't.

Would add we test employee temps twice a day and none ran a fever.

So in all the cases we closely have witnessed, pardon the crude language but swapping spit sealed the deal.

Lest I seem too cavalier, I'm not a denier of the disease, nor want to downplay how horrible it is for those who die from it. That said each day scientists and doctors are better understanding it and what the generalizdd fear-mongering the main stream media should be nothing short of criminal. The disease mechanism is turning out to be far more of a vascular / clotting nature versus a pulmonary one as first believed, with most having healthy immunity systems being able to avoid major sickness, but with those having existing major health issues and supressed immunities susceptible to vascular damage in any of the major organs.

Bettrr understanding the disease should guide us to adapt policies to actually protect those at greatest risk, but instead we're letting the media and politicians use fear to drive policies, such as closing schools, ro hurt those at little risk.

I see it this way... New York Times recently shared 43% of deaths have taken place in nursing homes, so extract those and you're down to a death count not too far above annual flu. Extract out those of all ages who went in with major heatlh issues, and I bet you're left with a number lower than the flu... which bega the question would we dream of shutting schools for typical annual flu, or even mandate masks for flu... I'm growing more concernef by the day that those peddling excessive fear by means of media and social media may do exactly that.
 
Meant to add relative to Johnson's driving, following CDC guidelines our employees were allowed to work after 1) being fever free without medicine for three days, 2) having improvement in respiratory symptoms, and finally 3) 10 days having passed since symptoms first appeared. All three steps required... not just one or two.

Another interesting observation -- we have about 20 employees and I'd say they were most scared about working in March when our city had almost no cases. They then seemed almost as scared when elective procedures opened back up and cases started spiking.

Now that cases are fairly widespread, and three employees have actually had it, they seem far less scared / almost as if life's back to normal at least temperament wise. I do think for many it's the fear of the unknown that makes them go crazy about the disease.
 
You bring up another great point about the fevers. NY has based everything on your temperature. I get tested at least once a day with everyone else at the company and anyone that comes inside. Same for my wife and her company. We arbitrarily picked your temp as a means for if you can come and go. People know when they have a fever and I assume would stay home during Covid. What sense does it make to base your reopening strategy on taking everyone’s temp. It’s not like people are trying to sneak in the front door with a temp. When you have nonsensical rules people are less likely to follow them and some that may be more important, like wearing a mask.
 
bigbendmarine said:
Meant to add relative to Johnson's driving, following CDC guidelines our employees were allowed to work after 1) being fever free without medicine for three days, 2) having improvement in respiratory symptoms, and finally 3) 10 days having passed since symptoms first appeared. All three steps required... not just one or two.

Another interesting observation -- we have about 20 employees and I'd say they were most scared about working in March when our city had almost no cases. They then seemed almost as scared when elective procedures opened back up and cases started spiking.

Now that cases are fairly widespread, and three employees have actually had it, they seem far less scared / almost as if life's back to normal at least temperament wise. I do think for many it's the fear of the unknown that makes them go crazy about the disease.
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I can’t imagine where the fear comes from.
 
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