Clover Food Plot Help

[huntman101]

So I got imperial whitetail clover for Christmas and want to get to using it. I have some land that is in the middle of woods that opens up and receives plenty of sunlight. It is flat ground but currently has native grass that's about knee high on it. It is also virgin sod. The problem is that it is very remote and hard to get to. At best I could get a push tiller and push mower back there. The land is about 50 yards long by 60 yards wide. But it's all covered with Native grass. Should I mow the grass, then spray it and mow again, and then get the tiller down there or what would be the first few steps into getting a good seed bed prepared. Yes I'm currently getting back results from a soil test and pH, aside from that, what's the steps and easiest way to get rid of that grass and prepare a good seed bed for the clover?

Thanks

 

[yoderjac]

First, it is best to put your location in your profile for questions like this, but in general, here is what I'd do. First, don't make the mistake of planting your clover in the spring. Instead, spend the spring/summer working on weed control. You can mow the now while it is dormant to reduce the amount of thatch by decomposition. Mow it a slow as possible. In the spring, when things begin to green up and new shoots are about 3", spray it with 2 qt/ac glyphosate. Wait two weeks or so and go back in looking for anything green and spray it with gly. I would plan on planting buckwheat for the summer. It is pretty tolerant of pH and infertility and will improve your soil. It is very fast and competitive and will out compete most weeds. It will germinate at a soil temp (not air temp) of 45 degrees but the optimal soil temperature is 80 degrees. When to plant depends on your location.

Buckwheat is a 60 to 90 day crop. When it is done you can evaluate the field for weeds. If necessary, spray it will gly again. You don't need much tillage for clover. I generally don't till more an 1". You want to plant the clover mixed with Winter Rye and plant it for fall. Again, planting time depends on your location. Keep in mind a significant percentage of you BOB mix is inexpensive annual clover. There is a small percentage of good improved perennial clover in the mix. That is what you are trying to maximize. If you get the timing right, you won't get much growth if any out of the clover, but the winter rye will be a great attractant for fall. The clover will take off the following spring. Each time the Winter Rye hits about a foot in the spring, mow it back to 6"-8" to release the clover.

Best of luck,

Jack

 

[swat1018]

Without seeing the stand, hard to say. I would probably spray to kill, and burn it off, if thick. I prefer frost seeding or fall seeding. I'd be afraid to frost seed into a thick stand of native grass, though.

 

[Bigshooter19]

If it was me I would mow spray till plant. whitetail clover makes spray to kill grass in a clover plot. I have never had a problem planting in the spring.

 

[yoderjac]

If it was me I would mow spray till plant. whitetail clover makes spray to kill grass in a clover plot. I have never had a problem planting in the spring.

That is an expensive option especially if you plan to till. If you go that route at least consider buying generic clethodim rather than paying the WTI premium. If you are in an area where summer weeds are not a problem, it is possible to spring plant. However, fall planting with cereal gives clover a big jump on summer weeds. Unless the OP is blessed with great soil, it takes time for amendments to work. Native grasses are advantaged in poor soils in the low water conditions of summer.

The further south you go, the more important this becomes because summers are more harsh. While I generally thing fall planting with a nurse crop is a best practice in most places, this is one of the reasons I suggested he update his profile location. Keep in mind that a perennial clover field can last from 5-10 years depending on the variety. Starting with a weed free field using best practices and having a high tolerance for "weeds" is much less expensive in money and time than fighting them with herbicides.

That is not to say that spring planted clover can't work under some conditions. I'm guessing you are fairly far north if spring planting works well for you.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Peplin Creek]

If it were me and I couldn't get anything more than hand tools to the plot, I would simply spray the plot with gly as soon as it greens up and then just broadcast the seed on top. Not sure how much clover seed you have, but I would double the rate if possible. since your not sure of seed to soil contact.

Otherwise I would spray, mow, wait a week, spray again and just scratch the surface up with a rake and then broadcast, remember the more ground you "till" the more likely you have at bringing weed seed to the surface. So try to avoid it if possible. If you do till and then plant, plant with oats, the oats will grow fast, and then mow them back around the end of summer early fall. Good luck, and remember there's always more than one way to accomplish the task at hand.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Yoder Jack's recommendation would probably get you the best long term results. You can plant it in the spring like other's suggested, you'll just have a higher chance of fighting weeds in the future. If you don't mind doing maintenance to keep weed/grasses down it should work fine too

 

[westonwhitetail]

If it were me and I couldn't get anything more than hand tools to the plot, I would simply spray the plot with gly as soon as it greens up and then just broadcast the seed on top. Not sure how much clover seed you have, but I would double the rate if possible. since your not sure of seed to soil contact.

Otherwise I would spray, mow, wait a week, spray again and just scratch the surface up with a rake and then broadcast, remember the more ground you "till" the more likely you have at bringing weed seed to the surface. So try to avoid it if possible. If you do till and then plant, plant with oats, the oats will grow fast, and then mow them back around the end of summer early fall. Good luck, and remember there's always more than one way to accomplish the task at hand.

My first plots I planted were done a lot like this. Way back in the woods, carrying hand tools and sprayers to them. I think a key to success is multiple applications of gly. Gotta make sure you get as much of the weeds as possible before you plant!

 

[Bigshooter19]

That is an expensive option especially if you plan to till. If you go that route at least consider buying generic clethodim rather than paying the WTI premium. If you are in an area where summer weeds are not a problem, it is possible to spring plant. However, fall planting with cereal gives clover a big jump on summer weeds. Unless the OP is blessed with great soil, it takes time for amendments to work. Native grasses are advantaged in poor soils in the low water conditions of summer.

The further south you go, the more important this becomes because summers are more harsh. While I generally thing fall planting with a nurse crop is a best practice in most places, this is one of the reasons I suggested he update his profile location. Keep in mind that a perennial clover field can last from 5-10 years depending on the variety. Starting with a weed free field using best practices and having a high tolerance for "weeds" is much less expensive in money and time than fighting them with herbicides.

That is not to say that spring planted clover can't work under some conditions. I'm guessing you are fairly far north if spring planting works well for you.

Thanks,

Jack

I guess I should have been more clear. We spray everything with round up. Let it all die. Than we now it because you can't roto tille with long grass than plant. I'm was just saying whitetail makes a spray you can use to control grass if it get out of hand. I live in South Central Wisconsin. I have worked up many plot with a rear tine tiller. If you can only get hand tools I would spray throw out weed than weed eat it down. But I wouldn't use clover for than. There by far better seed and cheaper seed with better results over clover.

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[yoderjac]

I guess I should have been more clear. We spray everything with round up. Let it all die. Than we now it because you can't roto tille with long grass than plant. I'm was just saying whitetail makes a spray you can use to control grass if it get out of hand. I live in South Central Wisconsin. I have worked up many plot with a rear tine tiller. If you can only get hand tools I would spray throw out weed than weed eat it down. But I wouldn't use clover for than. There by far better seed and cheaper seed with better results over clover.

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Yes, you can't spray with gly (or cleth for that matter) until things are green and actively growing. That was why I suggested mowing now so grasses have time to decompose before spring. There are several ways to control weeds including a herbicide like Arrest that you suggest. If the OP doesn't have a weed issue (which I'm guessing he will given his description of what is there now), spring planted clover might work and knowing there is a grass selective herbicide he can use as a backup may be reasonable. Keep in mind that WTI simply puts their label on a common grass selective herbicide called Clethodim and charges a premium for it.

Once you have to resort to herbicides for control, you are fighting an up-hill battle. Plots are generally 5+ years old before you need to resort to post emergent weed control in clover. Even then, there are several herbicide approaches. By using the summer to get control of weeds using pre-planting weed control techniques like gly and a smother crop of buckwheat, you also give any soil amendments added according to the soil test time to work. When I'm working with very poor soils like logging decks with the topsoil removed, it usually takes 2 seasons of soil improvement before I can grow decent perennial clover. Another thing that using a summer crop of buckwheat does in a small plot is to give you a handle on deer populations. Deer will use buckwheat but generally don't abuse it. If deer are wiping out buckwheat, there are other issues.

Winter rye, as a nurse crop, has allopathic properties. Clover planted in the fall may do little more than germinate but it will really take of in the spring with that head start. The winter rye is a great fall attractant but also takes off in the spring. It not only takes up space that weeds would otherwise occupy, the allopathic properties keep many weed seeds from germinating. By mowing the winter rye to release the clover, it keeps the weeds at bay until the clover has had time to put down that root system. Once clover has established a good root system it is quite competitive against grasses and other weeds. It is only after several years of fixing N into the soil that clover fields become attractive to N seeking weeds like grasses.

There are many ways to accomplish the same thing and it is good for the OP to see multiple perspectives. Much depends on our location, soils, equipment, and much more.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[beau_cephus]

I'm looking at doing a half acre plot of clover this spring as well. It is in a cleared area of the woods in Northern Alabama. I'm planning on spraying the area that has already been mowed with Gly this weekend and then plant in mid March after disking the soil. I'll also be putting out a 50 lb bag of 0-0-60 based on a soil sample from last year. This weekend is the only open weekend I have, is it worth spraying this early?

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[yoderjac]

Weeds need to be green and actively growing for them to absorb gly. We have had a few days of warm spell here in VA and things are just beginning to wake up. It depends on how things are doing in your location. If they are not green and growing yet, you are wasting time and money spraying. Once again, I'd advise not planting perennial in the spring especially that far south. You will likely be fighting weeds for the life of the plot. I'm north of you in VA and there is a big difference here between spring and fall planted clover. I'd offer the same advice to you as the OP. spend the summer getting control of weeds using gly and buckwheat. Then, plant for fall with a WR cover crop.

You probably know this but for others new to plots, my advice is for perennial clover. Annual clovers like Crimson can be planted in the spring with much less issue. This is because they are much faster to germinate and produce. Perennial clover spends considerable time establishing a root system that will support it for many years. Annual clovers don't need to do that.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[beau_cephus]

I am using a preenoculated perennial blend to plant. It has been extremely warm down here and areas of my Bermuda is already starting to germinate. Broad-leaves have started popping up so I think it will be some what beneficial to go ahead and spray. Thanks

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[S.T.Fanatic]

Controlled burn, wait 2 weeks (you will be amazed how fast the grasses grow after introducing fire) hit with gly., spread seed and pack in with 4 wheeler tires. This is what I would do IF I felt the NEED to plant in spring.

In my area Fall plantings with a cover is by far the best way to go.

 

[scott44]

Like others have said a fall planted clover plot is easier, I have planted both fall and spring and had decent success with both. I might try the throw and mow if you wanted to plant it this spring, go in and kill all the grasses with gly and come back in a couple weeks and broadcast your clover seed and oats into the dead thatch and mow it, if there is any grasses or weeds that you missed the first time you can hit them with gly without hurting the seed you just broadcast. Good luck!

 

[Bill]

I've have also planted both ways. I personally like spring planting because the plot is available for use in the fall not just getting started.

Having said that, go in knowing it's going to take a bit more work and $$ planting in the spring. Plenty of how to plant already here. I personally don't like to break the ground and expose any weed seed.

Arm yourself with clethodim to kill off any residual grasses that come back and butyrac 2-4D,B for any broad leaf. Don't know if the labels state that either are legal on clover in Alabama so if you use these just keep it to yourself.

Both call for the use of crop oil as a sticker. Don't use it, it will burn your clover. Use a good squirt of dawn dish washing detergent as a sticker. Mowing may keep the broadleaf weeds in check. Just mow above the clover flowers.

Spray the cleth later in the summer when it's warm to get a good kill on any grass. I'm willing to bet when cool fall weather arrives the clover will be lush.

 

[huntman101]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I would like to plant in the spring. So will definitely mow it and spray it before tilling it up. The area i'm in is Minnesota if that helps with any suggestions. Any tips on Brassicas and the correct conditions for planting it?

Thanks

 

[Bill]

I absolutely stink at getting good brassica's.

But back to the clover. If you think you have to till I would do a fall plot. Till as soon as you can and several times over the summer. Tilling will bring up any weed seed that has been laying dormant in the seed bed. 3 to 4 weeks after tilling that plot will be green and you won't have put a seed down. Repeated shallow tilling will help expose and kill the seed bank weeds getting you ready for the fall.

To spring plant I would follow others advice above. Spray, seed on the heavy side, then mow. If you time it before a heavy rain the clover seed will get pounded down to soil contact. That's all you need and you didn't dig up ant weed seed.

 

[Mike]

I know you are very anxious to plant your IWC I understand that and was that guy many years ago but as others have mentioned already far better to spend next spring and a good portion of the summer getting the weeds under control before you plant. The first clover plot I ever did was a no till plot where I sprayed roundup early June and then again in July. Then in late summer I broadcast my clover into the dead thatch. Also while you are waiting for the vegetation to burn down it would be a good idea to broadcast pellet lime on those areas you plan on planting. You will be far happier down the road (year 2-4) with your weed free plot if you take the extra time to do it right in the first place. Perrenial clover plantings are a marathon not a sprint, taking a shortcut will only get you a very weedy plot that only lasts a year or two.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Plant it with a nurse crop of spring oats. Hit it with a grass specific chem. when the oats are knee high. When the clover is reaching maturity mow it off and you should be good to go.