Cleth / COC and rain

[Jeff23]

Listen to MO on this, guys. I have an applicators license in PA, and had a visit with an inspector last year (I had a contract with the state, which flagged them to come check my records.) The inspector told me that she saw a landscaping company just up the road and stopped out of the blue to check them out. She didn't actually tell me that she fined them (all landscapers commercially apply gly but few are licensed), but she sure implied it. Keep indiscretions to yourself is the best course!

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Listen to MO on this, guys. I have an applicators license in PA, and had a visit with an inspector last year (I had a contract with the state, which flagged them to come check my records.) The inspector told me that she saw a landscaping company just up the road and stopped out of the blue to check them out. She didn't actually tell me that she fined them (all landscapers commercially apply gly but few are licensed), but she sure implied it. Keep indiscretions to yourself is the best course!

10-4!

 

[wiscwhip]

The whole thing sounds like a lengthy and costly court battle if the applicator had good lawyers and the state wanted to be dinks, and they proceeded to push each others buttons and spend some serious money? So if I were to pull off some clover to feed to my bunnies, would that be "hobby farming" and does "hobby farming" fall into the guidelines?

 

[MoBuckChaser]

The whole thing sounds like a lengthy and costly court battle if the applicator had good lawyers and the state wanted to be dinks, and they proceeded to push each others buttons and spend some serious money?

All it takes is one A-hole to turn you in! And it can cost you huge money to pay a fine and not fight the charges, or fight the charges and pay a attorney!

Guys just need to keep their mouths closed.

Loose lips, sink ships is my Motto!

 

[wiscwhip]

That does suck though, especially if you have nasty weeds/grasses and you own land next to a farmer. I can think of a few scenarios where a guy could screw a farmer over real good by letting some rogue weeds on the property line go unchecked and then ruin a farmers day when he finally harvests his crops, then again, the farmers day could be just as easily ruined by a guy who didn't know what he was doing with a herbicide application next to those crop fields either, so it is a 2 way street to nowhere in some instances I suppose.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

That does suck though, especially if you have nasty weeds/grasses and you own land next to a farmer. I can think of a few scenarios where a guy could screw a farmer over real good by letting some rogue weeds on the property line go unchecked and then ruin a farmers day when he finally harvests his crops, then again, the farmers day could be just as easily ruined by a guy who didn't know what he was doing with a herbicide application next to those crop fields either, so it is a 2 way street to nowhere in some instances I suppose.

I will tell you something that sucked. Some food plotters ordered some seed from down south and planted the seed next to some farm fields in SE Iowa this spring. Both those plots now contain the weed Palmer Amaranth. It is a devastating weed to farmers. It is now the first known cases of PA confirmed in Iowa by Iowa State U.
I bet those guys lose their hunting leases! LOL

Careful where a guy orders his seed from!

 

[wiscwhip]

That's not good at all. I know it takes quite a cocktail of herbicides to even phase that stuff. Definitely tougher to kill than it's more common cousin's redroot pigweed and waterhemp.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

That's not good at all. I know it takes quite a cocktail of herbicides to even phase that stuff. Definitely tougher to kill than it's more common cousin's redroot pigweed and waterhemp.

here is what it is:

 

[yoderjac]

I love the fact that the cliff clavins of this world will interpret the label to justify their own use of a product.

But since time began, people have been killing each other over the bible, which has been mis-interpreted since the start as well. LOL

The label clearly states NOTHING about food plots for deer, on right of ways, or non crop areas. So it can not be assumed by anyone other than the people that enforce the regulations for the local, state and federal governments on pesticides, that it can be used off label for that purpose. Plain and simple!

The label clearly describes non-crop areas and provides instructions for use on them.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

For everyone else that listens, you cant take a non crop area and turn it into a crop area, whether you harvest it or not, and think you can spray off label, with any pesticide, clethodim included!

You can spray a non crop area, like under a fricken park bench, or on a right of way, you just cant plant clover under the fricken park bench in any of the states not on the label, and still try and call it a non crop area so you can spray cleth on it! Once again, its plain and simple for most to understand!

But if anyone's pesticide inspector for your area says you can, have at it, before they figure out!

 

[yoderjac]

For everyone else that listens, you cant take a non crop area and turn it into a crop area, whether you harvest it or not, and think you can spray off label, with any pesticide, clethodim included!

You can spray a non crop area, like under a fricken park bench, or on a right of way, you just cant plant clover under the fricken park bench in any of the states not on the label, and still try and call it a non crop area so you can spray cleth on it! Once again, its plain and simple for most to understand!

But if anyone's pesticide inspector for your area says you can, have at it, before they figure out!

It is not an off label application. Notice that the label says Non-Crop or Non-Planted areas. So, it is obvious you can plant an area an have it a Non-Crop area. Otherwise, the label would make no distinction between Non-Crop and Non-Planted. If clover grows on my pipeline along with grasses and other weeds and I spray it, it is a non-crop area. If I seed my pipeline with clover, it is still a non-crop area. If I harvest that clover for seed or graze that clover, it is a crop.

It is very clear. Just read the label.

Thanks,

jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Is this guy for real? Bahahahahahahahah!

 

[yoderjac]

Simply read all of the label, not just part.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

LOL, this guy is too much!

 

[yoderjac]

Is this guy for real? Bahahahahahahahah!

LOL, this guy is too much!

Not particularly cogent arguments supporting your position. Mine is rather simple. If you read the entire label, you will see clethodim is also labeled for non-crops. If you have penned deer selling the venison to restaurants and plant clover and allow them to graze it, you have a crop. The pipeline company that maintains the pipeline on the easement across my property must compensate folks for any damage they cause when maintaining their pipeline. That sometimes includes bringing in heavy equipment and digging up sections. The farmer down the road is compensated for his crop. If his yield per acre is X and the number of acres disturbed is Y and the price per bushel of his crop is Z, he is compensated based n the value of the crop when sold. Yes, there is some negotiations on the numbers but that is the formula. When I sow the exact same plants on my section of the pipeline and they disturb my food plots, I'm compensated based on the cost of the seed, fertilizer, etc, not the value of a crop. When the farmer down the road licenses his farm truck, he can get farm plates. He is exempt from many of the inspection requirements and registration fees that I have to pay. He qualifies because he sells a crop. While I may plant the same thing, because I don't harvest and sell a crop, I don't qualify.

When herbicides are labeled, many factors go into the label. One is how the herbicide affects a crop, another is any residual effects that crop has on the commercial food chain, and another is the effect it has on the environment. For non-crop and non-planted areas it the first two don't apply. That is why the product directions are different for crops and non-crops.

That is the best I can do to explain it. I'll leave the ad hominem comments to you. Folks can read the entire label and decide what action to take for themselves.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Bahahahahahahahaha! He does it again!

 

[yoderjac]

Bahahahahahahahaha! He does it again!

Looking forward to content.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

And again! LOL!

 

[Jeff23]

Not particularly cogent arguments supporting your position. Mine is rather simple. If you read the entire label, you will see clethodim is also labeled for non-crops. If you have penned deer selling the venison to restaurants and plant clover and allow them to graze it, you have a crop. The pipeline company that maintains the pipeline on the easement across my property must compensate folks for any damage they cause when maintaining their pipeline. That sometimes includes bringing in heavy equipment and digging up sections. The farmer down the road is compensated for his crop. If his yield per acre is X and the number of acres disturbed is Y and the price per bushel of his crop is Z, he is compensated based n the value of the crop when sold. Yes, there is some negotiations on the numbers but that is the formula. When I sow the exact same plants on my section of the pipeline and they disturb my food plots, I'm compensated based on the cost of the seed, fertilizer, etc, not the value of a crop. When the farmer down the road licenses his farm truck, he can get farm plates. He is exempt from many of the inspection requirements and registration fees that I have to pay. He qualifies because he sells a crop. While I may plant the same thing, because I don't harvest and sell a crop, I don't qualify.

When herbicides are labeled, many factors go into the label. One is how the herbicide affects a crop, another is any residual effects that crop has on the commercial food chain, and another is the effect it has on the environment. For non-crop and non-planted areas it the first two don't apply. That is why the product directions are different for crops and non-crops.

That is the best I can do to explain it. I'll leave the ad hominem comments to you. Folks can read the entire label and decide what action to take for themselves.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack,
There is a ridiculous amount of fine print involved in these things, so it's rarely as simple as one might think if an inspector gets a bug up their rear. What type of grass one is targeting in a very specific setting could result in a totally off-label use, even if unintentional. I will give a personal example: when the inspector visited me, we were going over my records. She was good about it, but she pointed out that I didn't have all the same EPA numbers etc. listed on my individual spray locations even though it was listed as being a continued use from the same tank mix that I used (and recorded info for) at the previous location. It was clearly all recorded in such a way that it was obvious (so she didn't push it), but it could have cost me if she wanted it to, and there would have been nothing I could have done about it, even though she was looking for an insane amount of duplication. My standards are higher than someone using something for personal use by John Q. Plotplanter, but the point is that there is so much left to the discretion of an inspector anything could happen.
MO is a dealer and probably has to deal with inspectors once a month (more if he is a commercial applicator as well), so I feel pretty sure he is giving wise advice. The whole point is it doesn't really matter what a person thinks MAY be okay, but rather to just adhere to the "loose lips sink ships" motto.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Jack,
There is a ridiculous amount of fine print involved in these things, so it's rarely as simple as one might think if an inspector gets a bug up their rear. What type of grass one is targeting in a very specific setting could result in a totally off-label use, even if unintentional. I will give a personal example: when the inspector visited me, we were going over my records. She was good about it, but she pointed out that I didn't have all the same EPA numbers etc. listed on my individual spray locations even though it was listed as being a continued use from the same tank mix that I used (and recorded info for) at the previous location. It was clearly all recorded in such a way that it was obvious (so she didn't push it), but it could have cost me if she wanted it to, and there would have been nothing I could have done about it, even though she was looking for an insane amount of duplication. My standards are higher than someone using something for personal use by John Q. Plotplanter, but the point is that there is so much left to the discretion of an inspector anything could happen.
MO is a dealer and probably has to deal with inspectors once a month (more if he is a commercial applicator as well), so I feel pretty sure he is giving wise advice. The whole point is it doesn't really matter what a person thinks MAY be okay, but rather to just adhere to the "loose lips sink ships" motto.

Could not of said it better myself!