Chestnuts and QDM

[tooln]

Ok it's an old picture but I'd have to say there is no problem reaching the ground.

 

[yoderjac]

Ok it's an old picture but I'd have to say there is no problem reaching the ground.

I'm not being clear. Deer easily reach the ground. They suck acorns off it with no problem. It is a behavioral condition related to their feeding behavior and sensory system. Perhaps I should have said "don't" rather than physically "can't".

Thanks,

jack

 

[bueller]

Pretty easy. Deer have a pretty interesting feeding setup that is largely based on smell and feel since their eyes are positioned such that they don't actually see their food as they bite. Another thing I learned is that mixing sparse corn with soybeans has a protective effect on the beans. There is something about the corn leaves that interfere with their sensory system and my beans next to corn stalks get less browsing. The value of food compared to the effort to acquire it also plays into the equation. Once the WR hits an inch or so, it is like someone flipped a switch. I've found the same to be true with clover. When it first germinates, deer leave it until it puts on a little top growth and becomes easier to eat and a more efficient food source.

Thanks,

Jack

Could this be why my clover underneath standing rye doesn't see much activity until late summer early fall when the mature rye starts falling over?

 

[buckvelvet]

You must be high as a giraffe's ass when you post!

I'm pretty sure these deer get the winter rye fingerlings. Jack I appreciate your fruit grafting posts & things but that deer can't, won't, shouldn't, etc.. eat fingerling anything is one of the more unfounded posts i've ever seen. We'll all figuring this out as we go, thats a puffed up BS comment if I ever seen one.

 

[wbpdeer]

Thread name don't have 4 letters - just three.

 

[Neahawg]

To be fair to the point Yoder makes I've never planted anything in a plot be it soybeans, clover, wheat, rye, oat, peas, etc and it be eat to the dirt. Typically it still has at least and inch even with heavy browsing.

 

[buckvelvet]

Unless you plant 1/8 acre of an icecream plant with high dd #s it wont be eaten to bare dirt.


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[yoderjac]

sBuckvelvet,

I think I've explained the best I can. Deer simply don't use my WR when it is freshly germinated. I start to get use more frequently once it get about an inch tall. They really can really use it hard after that. Perhaps you've had a different experience. If you do, you should share it. I guess I'm not a fan of the personal attacks. I don't feel the need to respond that way. However, if you have an experience you want to share or data I'm happy to hear it. I have an open mind and am willing to learn.

Maybe a picture would help:

This is not WR, but principle holds. The seed on the left is germinating. When WR gets about the size of the plant second to the right, I see deer begin to use the field. When it hits an inch or so the begin to use it more. By the time it is 3 inches, deer are hitting the field hard. I've suggested a few candidates for why they do this. They use both smell and feel for the final access to food. That could have a impact. The effort verses the food value may come in to play as well.

I've made my case the best I can. Make yours and maybe you'll teach me something.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

To be fair to the point Yoder makes I've never planted anything in a plot be it soybeans, clover, wheat, rye, oat, peas, etc and it be eat to the dirt. Typically it still has at least and inch even with heavy browsing.

Typically when I see a field that is bare dirt, it is during a hard winter. If I look at the field closely, I can see it was not eaten to dirt, but pawed at. In my area, I find this happens with established clover in tiny harvest plots. Mine are about 1/3 acre at max. Deer don't seem to do this in my large feeding plots. The interesting thing is that even though I see bare dirt, the clover bounces back from the root system in the spring.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[broom_JM]

I have seen brassicas plots eaten to absolutely nothing but dirt within just a few weeks of being planted. I think this may be a case of observational bias, where we never see a tiny sprout being browsed because if they eat it at that stage, it's no longer there to be observed.

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[yoderjac]

I have seen brassicas plots eaten to absolutely nothing but dirt within just a few weeks of being planted. I think this may be a case of observational bias, where we never see a tiny sprout being browsed because if they eat it at that stage, it's no longer there to be observed.

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Broom,

I basing it on the 24/7 observation on a newly planted field. I just don't get pics of deer feeding until the WR gets about an inch.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill]

I've actually never seen anything eaten completly to the ground with the exception of a small amount of sun flowers. When my son was about 8 he wanted to plant a row of sun flowers down a fence line. We hand planted about 50. They germinated sprouted and a few days later they were completely abducted. Poof!

 

[Neahawg]

That's my observation as well. Thinking way back to my animal science class I recall that cows are unable to eat until grass reaches 1-2 inches off the ground do to the structure of there mouth, nose, and jaw. I would say in theory it is possible for deer to have the similar problem. I've planted email kill plots and my observations hold my plots fairly get below an inch even with browse pressure.

 

[MoBuckChaser]

You guys must all be smoking the Ganja!

I have seen cattle, sheep and horse pastures eaten to the dirt. Its how cattle get known as broken mouth. No teeth from the dirt because they eat so close to the ground. I have seen many of them come through our local sale barn.

Deer can pick up one soybean or one corn kernel off the ground if they want. This thread is getting way off course from Chestnuts!

 

[Neahawg]

Here is a link from Oregon st university where it states that cows do in fact have difficulty grazing grass below 2 inches. Now I don't know if it's true or not, just like I don't know if deer graze wr below one inch or not. All I'm saying is that I have never personally seen anything to prove jack wrong though to be honest I've never really looked or thought about it. The only thing I can say is never have I planted a plot where it was grazed to the dirt so who knows.

http://forages.oregonstate.edu/nfgc...ormaterials/availabletopics/grazing/livestock

 

[MoBuckChaser]

Here is a link from Oregon st university where it states that cows do in fact have difficulty grazing grass below 2 inches. Now I don't know if it's true or not, just like I don't know if deer graze wr below one inch or not. All I'm saying is that I have never personally seen anything to prove jack wrong though to be honest I've never really looked or thought about it. The only thing I can say is never have I planted a plot where it was grazed to the dirt so who knows.

http://forages.oregonstate.edu/nfgc...ormaterials/availabletopics/grazing/livestock

I can assure you when a food source is overgrazed by any animal, it gets chewed to the dirt. Take a look at any amish pasture! You can see a mouse running at 200 yards! Once again none of this has anything to do with Chestnuts!

 

[wbpdeer]

You are right. A forum viewer looking for a discussion on chestnuts will be shocked to read about plant height, grazing and dirt fields.

But threads sometimes have a life of their own...

 

[yoderjac]

You are right. A forum viewer looking for a discussion on chestnuts will be shocked to read about plant height, grazing and dirt fields.

But threads sometimes have a life of their own...

Wayne,

Yes. I'm sorry I started it. My point was to challenge the notion that the relative attractiveness between white oak acorns and chestnuts was an import reason to plant chestnuts. Somehow he seized on one sentence in an example of how food attractiveness is not static but changes over time with the lifecycle of the plant.

I'm done defending my position and it looks like many others have similar experience and views. When it seems everyone else in the world is smoking something, perhaps it is time to self-assess.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[wbpdeer]

Jack,

Being a Tennessee guy, I have learned thru my experiences with Chinese Chestnuts it is difficult for many users in the Michigan and Wisconsin to grow them. I have 0 orders from Minnesota and that is because they are in an outside looking in regarding winter survival. I have one South Dakota grower and he is about 5 miles north of the southern border.

I have spoken to one person who has struggled and lost them.

I am in zone 7a on the TN / KY state line and my winters don't kill stuff.

 

[ncstewart]

On chestnuts!! Well my opinion is if you live in an area that had them native at one time then you are messing up by not planting them. Hard to call something that is native a fad. If you live where they won't grow then you should move south cause it's to cold to hunt anyway!


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