CAR question

[BrushyPines]

Why would you choose to wait SEVERAL years for crab apple production from trees that may not produce anything worth having. I understand everyone has a budget, but if you had went with grafted trees you would already have considerable production of a proven variety.

Sorry TC, I went with a nursery that is right up the road from me. I figured trees that were grown in the same area would do much better in my area then say trees from up north. I'm not very experienced with trees in general, the main reason I joined this board. I've learned a lot in the little time I have been here. I really appreciate everyone's knowledge that they share.

 

[BrushyPines]

My experience with CAR is pretty limited, but I do want to say that if your trees are now five years old, you are five years ahead of a lot of other guys and have something you can work with.

If you have little or no grafting experience, you could watch a few how-to videos on YouTube, cut a couple sticks off a tree of a known variety owned by somebody you know, and graft them onto a few lower limbs you might be thinking about pruning off anyway. If the grafts take, you will gain confidence to change all the branches over to some CAR-resistant variety the next year. If the trial grafts don't take, nothing is lost.

I like this idea. I have no experience grafting, never have did it. Around here planting trees for wildlife is not popular at all. Its all about food plots and golden acorns I know no one else that has crabs in my area. I would definitely have to reach out to someone on the board for scion.

 

[williams111]

I have been debating either transplanting some eastern red cedar to a few places on my property, purchasing some more norways or add black hill spruce to improve the thermal cover. I believe that is the lowest hole in the bucket for me, I love finding sheds (almost as much as killing deer) and I have found lots of sheds under ERC's on other properties. I have read where CAR can travel a long ways and I already have a few ERC's that I am not willing to take down. For that reason I have primarily planted CAR resistant apple varieties. My question is does planting more ERC's increase the potential for CAR on my semi susceptible trees or is 1 tree as bad as 20? Since CAR travels so far does it matter? I would have access to many ERC's growing in ditches and what not around here, therefore they would be free.

 

[b116757]

I do know there are state conservation districts that nearly give away seeding fruit trees this is probably where many of these type plantings originate. Roll the dice and hope for the best I guess. I plant a lot of known verities myself and on fruit trees the tree cost is triple to quadruple the protection costs. On oaks the protection cost is double to triple the tree cost. If your simply planting seedling fruit trees without protection it is probably a cheap adventure but where I’

Why would you choose to wait SEVERAL years for crab apple production from trees that may not produce anything worth having. I understand everyone has a budget, but if you had went with grafted trees you would already have considerable production of a proven variety.

This is the exact reason I plant known cultivars myself. I don’t begrudge anyone the hobby of growing seedlings fruit trees with possibly of finding a new spectacular cultivar. 5-10 years is a substantial investment in time for me I’d like to know I’m going to get more than a “handful of maybe there good trees” out of 100 planted. Now if the intent was to get a lot of cheap rootstock going and top working them over to known cultivars latter this may not be a bad plan

Sorry TC, I went with a nursery that is right up the road from me. I figured trees that were grown in the same area would do much better in my area then say trees from up north. I'm not very experienced with trees in general, the main reason I joined this board. I've learned a lot in the little time I have been here. I really appreciate everyone's knowledge that they share.

in my experience most local nurserymen aren’t very knowledgeable on fruit trees you really need an local orchard operator or specialized nurseryman’s expertise. This website and its members are a wealth of knowledge and experience also.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Why would you choose to wait SEVERAL years for crab apple production from trees that may not produce anything worth having. I understand everyone has a budget, but if you had went with grafted trees you would already have considerable production of a proven variety.

A great point TC. I planted 3 seedling crabs (from a state agency) and 4 B-118 rootstocks to let grow. 2 seedling crabs turned out OK for wildlife - the third crab and the B-118 rootstocks were crap. Those have been replaced with known, grafted DR apple varieties. I wasted 4 to 5 years on the "take a chance" plantings.

Not all "take a chance" seedlings turn out bad. Some can become real winners. Some of Sandbur's seedlings at my home are doing great and show no disease problems, despite having ornamental junipers and red cedars in my neighborhood. Bur's seedlings are outside all year in big pots - all growing well.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I have been debating either transplanting some eastern red cedar to a few places on my property, purchasing some more norways or add black hill spruce to improve the thermal cover. I believe that is the lowest hole in the bucket for me, I love finding sheds (almost as much as killing deer) and I have found lots of sheds under ERC's on other properties. I have read where CAR can travel a long ways and I already have a few ERC's that I am not willing to take down. For that reason I have primarily planted CAR resistant apple varieties. My question is does planting more ERC's increase the potential for CAR on my semi susceptible trees or is 1 tree as bad as 20? Since CAR travels so far does it matter? I would have access to many ERC's growing in ditches and what not around here, therefore they would be free.

I would say that yes it probably does, for no other reason that the probability of 1 of 1,000 spores landing on a tree is less than the probability of 1 of 1,000,000 spores. Though if thermal cover is the lowest leak in your habitat bucket then I personally would plant the cedars. What good is 1,000s of apples if there are other things keeping deer from using or staying on your property.

 

[chickenlittle]

It’s a goals and numbers thing. If you got space to plant and resources to protect them, and no hurry for results and are ok with variable success, seedlings have a place in your plan.

If you want to plant fewer trees and know what you will get and when, in a specific location, choosing the right grafted trees is the way to go.

And your habitat plan might include both plus other approaches.

 

[BrushyPines]

So since I have seedlings that idk what their production will be. Should I start spraying now or just wait and see how they do with CAR? I do like the idea of grafting scion to lower branches of some. Some of the seedlings look very promising and some already have drooping limbs, even the leaders. The drooping ones I would like to try and graft.

 

[PoorSand]

A guy can achieve a lot with five trees. Each one can be converted over to a different variety so you have a continuous drop time sequence, or you can even graft a different variety onto each limb plus the leader, so if one tree dies someday, you still have that variety on the other trees.

Grafting is not as complicated as one might think when reading some of the posts around this forum. My first instructions were on the day some rootstock got delivered. A friend dropped off some scions for me and gave me ten minutes of verbal instructions. I grabbed what materials I had on hand (utility knife, electrical tape, and roofing tar), did about twenty grafts that day, and about half those grafts succeeded. These days, the internet allows a guy to see in advance how it is done and arrange to have better tools and materials on hand.

 

[H20fwler]

The only apple trees of ours I see a little CAR on are Wickson crab and now and then a DropTine crab, I think stress to the trees for any reason makes them more susceptible to it.

 

[BrushyPines]

When do you usually get scion? Winter? When do you usually graft? Right before the buds break?

 

[b116757]

Scion is collected in winter
bark grafting is done after leaf out in spring

 

[Bowsnbucks]

When do you usually get scion? Winter? When do you usually graft?

February and March are great times to collect scion. Get it while doing your dormant-season pruning. Most bench grafting is done as soon as scion is collected (within a few days) - or very shortly thereafter so the scion stays fresh. Keeping the scion cool & moist - not wet - is a key to success.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

A CAR observation -
We got new next-door neighbors last year, and they pulled out all the junipers that lined their driveway. Those junipers were directly upwind of our Profusion crab apple tree about 50 feet away. Since those junipers ( wrongly called "cedars" ) have been gone, I see no CAR on our Profusion crab. It's the cleanest of CAR since before the previous neighbors planted those junipers along their driveway some 10 years prior.

 

[PrairieShadow]

I have been debating either transplanting some eastern red cedar to a few places on my property, purchasing some more norways or add black hill spruce to improve the thermal cover. I believe that is the lowest hole in the bucket for me, I love finding sheds (almost as much as killing deer) and I have found lots of sheds under ERC's on other properties. I have read where CAR can travel a long ways and I already have a few ERC's that I am not willing to take down. For that reason I have primarily planted CAR resistant apple varieties. My question is does planting more ERC's increase the potential for CAR on my semi susceptible trees or is 1 tree as bad as 20? Since CAR travels so far does it matter? I would have access to many ERC's growing in ditches and what not around here, therefore they would be free.

I'm planting cedars at a very accelerated pace the last couple years for the thermal cover reason (about 1400 this year). Out here on the prairie trees are king when it comes to holding deer. I just hope all my apple trees are as CAR resistant as I was told they were.

 

[b116757]

I’ve got about a 5-7 acre ERC stand on both farms. I wage war on ERC in some areas but in those almost exclusive ERC stands I leave them alone for some good winter cover for the deer.

 

[sandbur]

I'm planting cedars at a very accelerated pace the last couple years for the thermal cover reason (about 1400 this year). Out here on the prairie trees are king when it comes to holding deer. I just hope all my apple trees are as CAR resistant as I was told they were.

CAR is usually a short season problem for me on the edge of the prairies. I have 40 acres of cedar with a few other things. I do ok with the apples, but it is best if I can keep them out where there is good air flow. Varieties with some susceptibility to CAR even do OK.

I think the nearly annual dry periods reduce the time that CAR is a problem.


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[Turkey Creek]

CAR is usually a short season problem for me on the edge of the prairies. I have 40 acres of cedar with a few other things. I do ok with the apples, but it is best if I can keep them out where there is good air flow. Varieties with some susceptibility to CAR even do OK.

I think the nearly annual dry periods reduce the time that CAR is a problem.


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Yes the severity of CAR is greatly affected by the weather during the period of time when the galls on the cedars are releasing spores. Warm, wet weather makes it a more severe year. Dry conditions or dry and hot especially reduce it significantly.

 

[PrairieShadow]

CAR is usually a short season problem for me on the edge of the prairies. I have 40 acres of cedar with a few other things. I do ok with the apples, but it is best if I can keep them out where there is good air flow. Varieties with some susceptibility to CAR even do OK.

I think the nearly annual dry periods reduce the time that CAR is a problem.


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This is exactly what I saw happen this spring. I had the big galls on the cedars but as soon as dry weather hit, they visibly shriveled up and went dead looking. Thanks Bur!