Building the forever house what am I missing?

[Turkey Creek]

^ Funny Stuff. THE largest outdoor chain used to be my best customer. They sold the spit outta one of my products. I had a patent on it. Then one day they decided to have one of my products made in Asia......so they could "private label" the item and call it there own. Dead nuts copy of my stuff.

Had a meeting......and I asked them why I should not sue them. Answer?: Because we will withdraw our other products we buy from you and quit doing biz. Remedy: They SAID they would quit importing the copy-cat products if I let them go......and would then just buy from me.

Did they? Noooooo They had to offer both my product and theirs........and refused to remove theirs from the catalog. How do you sue the company that is 50% of your annual biz? Cut off your nose to spite your face??

I hope they can live with themselves. I got no time for the busturds......or their "house brands". Same goes for the second largest......same kinda treatment. There is no honor in business with these kinda companies any longer. Was a time there was.......not now.

If I went into this kinda business today......I would direct sell things via the web.....and these guys would suck air. They will leave you for a dime........and expect the world in return. Dumb bunnies.

I will say it for you Cabelas is a freaking waste of time and space anymore. I do what ever I can to avoid buying from them and I do not buy their "private" label because your story is the same for way too many of their suppliers. Most of their items are over priced if you do some shopping around, customer service is generally piss poor and they never have in stock what you want at our local store.

 

[chummer]

Thanks for the stories guys. It does take a certain person to go into business for them selves. I loved having my business but my wife hated it. I certainly wasn't getting rich but I made money every year I was in business. I just sold in April. I got a little up front but most is being paid over 4 years. I always thought when I got out of business I would be done dealing with A-holes. Before the sale was final I took a job selling heavy equipment. Now I deal with even more A-holes on a daily basis. I am starting to look down the road at another business. I would like to start one my kids could take over. Some people just aren't cut out to work for the man, others are very happy working 8-4 everyday. When they leave at the end of the day they don't think about work till the next day. Owning a business is 24/7/365.

Tip on the house, paint or stain or basement before you move in. Seals in the dust. Five years in our house and our basement is still clean and mostly dust free.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Reply for 2 guys:

Foggy - I've never bought their store brand products. I go there about once a year - IF - I really need to. Last time I was there, it was because my son wanted to buy a gun there. I don't like " corporatized " anything. I'd rather deal with smaller guys on just about everything.

Jordan - Chummer ^^^ makes a good point. When your basement floor is poured, have concrete sealer put on - one that is a " cure and seal " type product. It slows the curing process so you end up with harder concrete with no dust when you sweep. It also keeps out stains from discoloring the concrete.

 

[foggy]

Gotta add something: There was a time in the manufacturing world where we were all making our wares here.....in our own factories and typically with our own warehouse and distribution means......and typically the manufactures would agree to leave each other alone. The adage was: "Don't fish in another man's stream". Read: Let a man make a fair profit and find something else to do. So.....while we may compete with one another.....NOBODY would think to make a dead nuts copy of another guys wares.

(It just was not done by ethical business folks.....and it would have cost too much to take the risk to tool up for a US patented copy product - and then you may be sued.)

Then....along comes NAFTA and we start to offshore everything. We all watch as plant after plant either is moved overseas or they go broke or sell out, etc. Now we all scurry to get ties to Asian manufacturing resources.....and in the process those boys set up "knock-off" show rooms of many popular products that were once made in the USA. No regard to patent laws or ethics any more. All cut-thoat tactics and business practices.

I'm small potatoes.....but I know for a fact that my products were hanging in several Knock Off "showrooms" in Taiwan......and the all the folks from the big catalog companies (or wanna-be importers and fast buck artists) would go there regularly to source their "private label" products - you know the ones with their names on 'em. So....basically we exported all the American Ingenuity to the Far East.....and along with it much of the integrity that shapes us - or used to.

Tell me one good thing that NAFTA has done for you?......(other than to dramatically reduce your income and make cheap foreign goods available thru mass merchants). Ross Perot was right......a HUGE sucking sound when we exported all our jobs. I can still hear the vacuum created in this country. Sad.....IMO
.....and we vote it in each November.

Yep, we have tech jobs and pretty fair white collar jobs......but what about work-a-day folks. We used to try to take all of society along in our efforts to grow. Seems somebody at Harvard forgot about that.....and we left allot of folks behind in the last 20 or 30 years.....and a WHOLE lot of integrity in the process.

 

[foggy]

OH....and while I still am on a rant......

Tell me what "going global" has done for the USA Citizens? We got a world full of enemies, our borders are a sham, terrorists everywhere, shrinking middle class, were importing refugees by the droves, and our economy is in shambles, and the best jobs are in the public sector and "entitlements". I dunno......I may have to vote for "the Donald". (did I say that? o_O:eek::oops:) We need SOME level of common sense again. Rant over.

 

[Bill]

^ thats all true, and sad!

Even the Donald part.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

To answer your question: I founded Stoney Point Products. Brand names included Steady Stix, Pole-Cat and a few more. Had 25, or so, shooting and hunting related patents / trademarks.......and still have a creative mind....or, what's left of it. :D

Sorry for the long dissertation. :D [/QUOTE]

Cool story. Which company makes the best shooting sticks and monopod type rest now? I have a couple pairs of 15+ year old stoney point shooting sticks and they are great but I probably should buy another backup pair at some point since I've been known to leave them leaning against random trees on hunting trips.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Not to pi$$ in anyone's cheerios, but the " globalization " thing started with Nixon. He was the one who went to China ( Communist country ) to " normalize " relations with them. And when Reagan was in office, I watched the press conference on TV when he made the announcement that we were going to turn our economy from a manufacturing-based economy to a service-based economy. He said the " globalization " of our economy would be good for business. He was exactly right. It was good for businesses - NOT American workers. And NAFTA ( which stands for North American free trade agreement - not global free trade agreement ) came after that under Clinton. It was supposed to be between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico as it was written. Then George W. Bush came in and signed free trade agreements with a BOAT-LOAD of countries - Panama, Peru, Guatemala, Chile, Argentina, Costa Rica, India, etc. and more that I can't remember.

Facts are facts and it's all out there for public scrutiny. History can't run away. IMO - Not one of theses free trade agreements was good for the American economy. And let's remember one thing gentlemen ....... It was ( so-called ) American corporations that pushed for globalization. It wasn't European corporations that pushed for it. And back when it all started, there were no big huge Asian corporations making anything of consequence on the world stage, save for Japan. But even Japan got left in the dust because their workers were better educated and wouldn't work for peanuts like the Indians, Vietnamese, Malaysians, people of Singapore, China ( they don't have a choice - they're under a COMMUNIST military dictatorship ........ you speak up - you die ) and other countries of Asia.

A better moniker for " free trade agreements " of any ilk would be " extremely cheap labor agreements " because anyone with a brain can see them for what they truly are. No good for American workers OR the American economy.

And when all those " American " companies went to Asia with all of our high-tech machinery and processes of tooling and manufacturing, did anybody REALLY think the technology wouldn't be stolen when it's on their soil ????? Even the Joint Chiefs of Staff over 30 years ago wrote a report questioning the wisdom of having suppliers of chips and other electronic components that we use in our defense systems off-shore. I READ a big, long article with the points the Joint Chiefs made back then. It was in U.S. News and World Report, Time, or Newsweek - I don't remember which one now. But it was a hell of an article. The really funny ( and sad ) part of all the races to Asia from U.S. companies is now we hear in the news all the time about China having stolen much of our cutting - edge technology and are copying many of biggest $$$ makers on the world stage. NNNNOOOOO SSSSHHHHTTTTT.

You know what else is amazing ?? After all the jobs started to disappear and folks stopped spending money out of fear of losing what jobs were left, businesses of all types and sizes were complaining that they weren't getting near the business anymore. " Where are all the people " they worried, in TV and print articles. All kinds of offers ....... buy a dinner - get a second dinner free. Buy a pool, get the filter and a year's supply of chemicals free. Let us build your house, we'll give you a washer & dryer and a refrigerator for it.

YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW. ^^^^^^^^ I think someone else said that before ........... oh yeah - it was GOD in the Bible !!!

How STUPID are we as a country for letting this happen because of the voracious GREED of a small number of people ( relatively speaking ) ?? U.S. citizen tirade over. Sorry Jordan.

 

[foggy]

To answer your question: I founded Stoney Point Products. Brand names included Steady Stix, Pole-Cat and a few more. Had 25, or so, shooting and hunting related patents / trademarks.......and still have a creative mind....or, what's left of it. :D

Sorry for the long dissertation. :D

Cool story. Which company makes the best shooting sticks and monopod type rest now? I have a couple pairs of 15+ year old stoney point shooting sticks and they are great but I probably should buy another backup pair at some point since I've been known to leave them leaning against random trees on hunting trips.[/QUOTE]
----------------------------
Truthfully.....I don't know who makes the best products these days. I have not seen many Bog Pods....but I think they are quite good. Maybe a little heavy by my standards.....but if they hold up....then its good.

I think they did some do-overs on the Primos Trigger Sticks.....but what I had seen was not pretty (and quite heavy and bulky too for western type hunting.....IMO). They were not holding together to get out the door when I last inspected them.

I think the Stoney Point pod's are still made but I cannot speak to it's quality today. Was quite bad for a time. Maybe it's better now? Dunno.

If you can locate an old Stoney Point Tripod with the "Tag Along" rear support.......I believe those were the best long-range, big game shooting sticks made. I did shoot an elk at over 600 yards with this......and it's the real deal IMO. Not sure if Primos is now offering this.....or if their quality is worth your money now (?). ....they did have some problems for quite some time when they "off shored" the product line.

I read ALLOT of reports about breaking plastic parts on the later Stoney Point pods. That is sad....because I cannot recall replacing a plastic part because it broke. I used to do destructive testing on the plastic parts by putting them in a vice and smashing with a heavy hammer.....and many other types of tests. It' grinds me to no end that those clowns chose to make cheap chit with my old names on 'em. But then....they paid for the brands and it was theres to ruin. :rolleyes:

At one point after I was out of the biz......I was to be hired as a consultant once by one of the BIG companies then making my stuff. Went to one meeting and told them I had enough. They had previously "stolen" my Trademarks, stolen my patents and I could not stomach being in the same room with those clowns......let 'em burn I say. ;)

Here's how bad they were: I had a Company with trademark of Stoney Point......and a trademark product called Steady Stix....which also had both design and utility patents. These clowns copied my Steady Stix product and called their product "Steady Point".....and had the guts to slap a TM on it! There slogan? : Stone Cold Certain.....riiiiight. So when I cried foul to them......(a large company that made the Moonlander for NASA no less).....they sent me back a 300 page opinion by some Philadelphia law firm with some whippy legalese. I was lucky to get my biz sold....because I was gonna get steamrolled. It gets worse....but I digress. I got paid.....let 'em burn. ;)

I suppose I should shut up.....or maybe I could be sued or something. Then again....counter-suit is fair play. ;)

Sorry for the hijack. I will try to refrain from this type of discussion. :D Cynical Foggy. ;)

 

[tooln]

Jordan
Sorry for getting side tracked but I got to add

FOGGY for President

 

[sandbur]

Foggy and John-

I got tremendous respect for guys that built their business and their lives on hard work. You are two of the best in my book.

I'm sure there are many more on this forum that I do not know, but you guys and also Brooks deserve credit.
In central Mn, I have heard good things about all three of you.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Jordan - Where are you in the house-building process ? Is your design all picked out yet ?? Picked a builder ?? ( I may have missed something, - didn't read back over the thread )

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Jordan - Where are you in the house-building process ? Is your design all picked out yet ?? Picked a builder ?? ( I may have missed something, - didn't read back over the thread )

Should have preliminary plans any day. Will fine tune them after that..
I am going to be my own builder. To tight to pay somone 12%;)

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Excellent !! If you have any family or friends that can help, it'll be a fun project. I've been involved in some of those family builds. The men would work and the women would cook up burgers, chili, baked beans, salads, etc. Houses got built with care and many memories were made - lots of laughs !!

Just wait until you feel the satisfaction you'll have when it's done. You'll be mighty proud of it !! Keep us posted.

 

[foggy]

We built a couple of homes. Two of them were "forever" homes. The home before I'm in now.....I was the "General". We REALLY liked that house.

One piece of advice that could work for you.....is that we toured so many homes during the "Minnesota parade of homes" and found a house that was almost exactly what we built (I'd bet we looked at over 50 homes of interest before we found the home we wanted). The builder would not sell me the plans......but he would allow me to redraw it. I measured and re-drew the floor plan.....and took pics of everything.....including the means of support, etc. All the elevations and more. Then had the plan put onto a "cad" house plan system to get our prints. Gotta say.....that was a lotta work....but it really paid off and we did get the house we were dreaming of. We did make some changes and improved to our tastes in a quite a few areas....but the basic plan and size was good.

Standing in the house you want to build was a HUGE benefit in KNOWING what your gonna have when your done. ;)

 

[MoLandOwner]

Should have preliminary plans any day. Will fine tune them after that..
I am going to be my own builder. To tight to pay somone 12%;)

If you are going to be "The Builder" you need to make sure you get good bids, from good contractors, that can show up in a timely fashion. Learn how to schedule the right contractor at the right time. So don't have the painter show up when they are still doing the framing, you get the drift! Good luck, my many years as a contractor is always available for consulting!;)

 

[MoLandOwner]

We built a couple of homes. Two of them were "forever" homes. The home before I'm in now.....I was the "General". We REALLY liked that house.

One piece of advice that could work for you.....is that we toured so many homes during the "parade of homes" and found a house that was almost exactly what we built. The builder would not sell me the plans......but he would allow me to redraw it. I measured and re-drew the floor plan.....and took pics of everything.....including the means of support, etc. All the elevations and more. Then had the plan put onto a "cad" house plan system to get our prints. Gotta say.....that was a lotta work....but it really paid off and we did get the house we were dreaming of.

Standing in the house you want to build was a HUGE benefit in KNOWING what your gonna have when your done. ;)

That is a fact for the women, most can not look at a blueprint and get a grasp at what room sizes are.

 

[foggy]

^ That is an excellent point MO. My wife cannot grasp what size a room is or how much space is needed in a hallway, etc. Standing in THE home you are going to have.....was extremely helpful. In my case.....the similar home we built was just outside St Cloud MN. I think we went back there 3 or 4 times during the Parade Of Homes Week. IN Minnesota, they have a book on the homes in the "Parade"......so we were able to screen some good candidates......and then drive all over creation to look at the homes.

We instantly KNEW when we had found the Right house for us. The home also had almost identical elevations for the property (walkout basement situation). NICE benefit.

Kinda did the same thing with the house I'm in. Found one that was quite similar.....made our tweaks and some major changes.....but got a size and contraction style identified quite quickly......and my wife had a "feel' for what the kitchen would look like.....etc, etc. I was not the general however (and wish I had been :()

 

[MoLandOwner]

I have seen more people try and be the contractor, cost themselves more money than if they would have hired a contractor though. When subs work with a general contractor they know what to expect on scheduling, building practices, material quality, all sorts of stuff. Many Harry Homeowners have no Idea what they are doing, so the subcontractors will add on 10-20% because of a homeowner contractor. So if it were me. I would get a bid from several contractors on what it would cost to build my house. Then get my own bids for everything that goes into building a home while trying to do it my self. Bet most would have their jaw drop when they find out the contractor will be cheaper 50% of the time, than the owner trying to be the contractor. JMO

 

[foggy]

^ To you point above. My last home (where I was the general) it was common to work with a lumber yard and you kinda knew all the subs in town. Much easier.....as the lumber yards were somewhat the "unofficial" general. Still your responsibility.....but they really helped with the issues and kept things moving.

On my home here at the lake.....I didn't know anyone. It would have been extremely difficult to get the right team of subs to do this work. In reality.....a good General was essential to this build.....and we had a architect / designer as well.

I did get involved in this build......as there were a few many "holes" in our build and some folks quit, ect.....and it required me to get involved. Had a good outcome....but it got ugly a few times along the way. Not the build experience I was expecting.