Brasscias in Clover experiment starts tomorrow:

[WTNUT]

As some of you will recall there was chatter on another forum about planting brassicas in an existing clover plot. Tomorrow I will start the planting process. We had rain today, and rain is in the forecast over the next week on and off. All of the clover plots will be sprayed with Gly at 1 qt. per acre first. I don't want to spray Gly after I drill the clover because there will be some exposed seed even with a no till drill. I am concerned about Gly getting on the seed.

Some of the plots will be drilled over every square inch at about 50-60 percent of the rate needed for a plot of all brassicas. Some plots will be drilled at about 75 to 80 percent of the full rate for brassicas. But, I will drill a strip and skip a strip. That will guarantee clover and give extra brassicas for grazing pressure. I know the clover will bounce back quickly from the Gly, but my deer really really love brassicas and I am uncertain as to how much grazing will hurt the brassicas early on as they are growing before the clover starts to bounce back.

I will keep you posted and may add some photos :). Suggestions, comments, jokes, questions, theories, warnings, disclaimers, and cartoons are all welcome.


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[WTNUT]

Typo don't want to spray Gly after drilling the brassicas - in first paragraph.


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[wiscwhip]

Gly only kills living plant tissue, it cannot harm your seeds.

 

[WTNUT]

Thanks. I thought I had seen where it could so I was being cautious.


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[mrlnfshr1]

We have been doing this for several years, with the exception that I broadcast the brassica seeds into the stunted clover. Results have varied somewhat from year to year but have been generally favorable. Timely fall rains seem to be the key. I spray 1/2 of each of our 1 acre clover plots (Ladino and Alsike mix) with 2qts/acre of Gly in mid-late August. This will nuke any weeds and grasses and reduce the chance of them developing gly resistance that comes with lower application rates. It will severely set the clover back and will look like it is toast, but the clover will bounce back with the rains and cooler temps later in the fall.

I follow up in early September by broadcasting a mix of 1.5 # Kale and 1/2# Ptt over each sprayed 1/2 acre. At this time, I also spread a 50# bag of potash if I haven't already done so this year. I try to do this just before a rain, and hopefully the rains will continue throughout the fall. I have also used Rape, Radish and WI Winter Greens, but have settled on Dwarf Siberian Kale and PTT as the favorites on our farm. I follow up the first week of October with a 50# bag of Urea.

We usually have our 1st frost here around November 1st, give or take a few days, but it usually stays relatively mild after that point. The Kale is browsed somewhat during Oct and early November while the deer don't really get serious with the turnip greens until probably mid- late November. By the end of the year, most of the greens are gone, leaving nothing but turnips, and stalks. When it snows, the deer hammer this so that by the end of February, there is nothing left but clover and a handful of rotting pieces of turnip. The clover will bounce back in the spring, and with proper maintenance will be a nice perennial plot where you can repeat this the following fall on the other half.

I'm hoping this year to actually get a snow or 2 during the season and believe me, I will be overlooking the brassicas. The past 2 seasons we didn't really have any snow until after the season, but when it did come, the deer destroyed the plots , trampling whatever they didn't eat into a muddy mess. The clover came back, but it probably could have used a half rate frost seeding to help even things up.

 

[wiscwhip]

You aren't planting any brassicas in the upper Midwest in Sept and having them amount to much at all. We get frost the 2nd or 3rd weeks of Sept most every year, so even if they germinated, you would be lucky to get them 6" tall and in the case of turnips and other bulb producing brassicas, you would be lucky if they ended up the size of golf balls. So time your planting dates based on your particular area.

 

[WTNUT]

Marlin Fisher / if you don't mind what state are you in?


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[wiscwhip]

I believe he is in Maryland.

 

[yoderjac]

You probably saw these pics on the "other" forum, but I'll post them again here for others. I've had very good success drilling radish into clover fields. I've used 3 techniques and all seem to work. For ladino that goes dormant for me in the summer, I'll drill when the clover is dormant. If it is old and weedy I'll spray gly since the dormant clover won't absorb it. For Durana, I'll suppress it just as the fall rain is coming. If it is weedy, I'll use the 1 qt/ac gly as you suggest. If not, I'll just set my bushhog very low and mow it flat then drill.

Looking forward to seeing your pics!

Jack

 

[WTNUT]

I did not see those. They looked drilled were they?


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[yoderjac]

Yes, I used my little Kasco no-till drill to drill radish and WR into that field when the clover was suppressed. Half of the field I sprayed with gly and the other half I mowed flat with a bushhog. This was the first one I did several years ago and was experimenting with methods. I could see no difference in results, so I now use both methods depending on how weedy the clover is.

Several folks on the other forum said they were going to try this with broadcasting. I have not seen any results and that is why I was interested in your thread. My guess was that timing would be more critical for broadcasting. You probably need rain sooner. When drilled, the seed has access to the soil moisture. I also think seed size is a factor when surface broadcasting. I was using radish which has a relatively large seed for brassica. I have found that in general it will germinate if I surface broadcast it into standing RR beans, but the germination rates are not as good as broadcasting PTT.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[WTNUT]

Some of my clover is only a year old, I am a little afraid of 2 qt per acre of Gly.

 

[yoderjac]

I wouldn't use 2 qt/ac on my clover even if it was well established unless it was completely dormant and I has a particularly stubborn weed. I use 1 qt/ac to suppress. That will kill most grasses. I generally don't worry about most broadleaf weeds.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[mrlnfshr1]

Yes, I'm on Marylands Eastern Shore and we do have a different climate here than much of the state.

I'll try to post some pics of our past results in a couple of days. We have 2 1-acre clover plots that haven't been disked since spring 2012 when we attempted beans, but that's a whole different story. As mentioned, each fall I spray 1/2 of each and then broadcast brassicas into the stunted clover. One is still doing well, despite not having been mowed properly the last 2 summers. The other got away from me, but not because the kale and ptt didn't grow. I think they did too well, and the deer trampled the underlying clover to death with our somewhat unique snow/ thaw patterns that we have near the coast.

 

[WTNUT]

Well I planted about 30 acres this weekend. Here are some photos. The first is as I was starting to drill into the clover. It had been fertilized and sprayed with 1 qt of GLY per acre prior to the photo. The second and third photos are after I drilled.


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[broom_JM]

Very interested to see how this looks in 8 weeks...if you get enough browse growth before threat of frost to be worth doing it this late.

 

[P&Y Manager]

WTNUT - how deep were you drilling and what seeding rate did you use?

 

[WTNUT]

Very interested to see how this looks in 8 weeks...if you get enough browse growth before threat of frost to be worth doing it this late.

This is very very early to plant brassicas for us. We will not get enough frost to matter until mid November.


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[WTNUT]

WTNUT - how deep were you drilling and what seeding rate did you use?

I set the drill as shallow as it will go. Book calls in 1/4 inch but is probably a little deeper. Some fields were planted at 2 pounds groundhog radish and 3 pounds other (t-raptor and Barkant), some fields were 3 pounds GH and 4 pounds other. And I did 4 acres of bare ground at 4 pounds GH and 5 other.


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[WTNUT]

Well hope to get some photos today or tomorrow of the Brassicas planted last weekend. However, my wife wants us to go golf ugh! I can take golfing, we use to golf a lot. My wife really enjoys it and is pretty darn good. I know some guys would love for their wife to golf. Funny story my wife and I had been married a year or so and I was very conservative when it came to spending money. We were probably 26. My wife had been begging to buy a fishing boat. So we went to a lake and rented one to fish. We did and came in right before dark. A catfish tournament was about to start and guys were everywhere. My wife, who is a fitness model at the time, gets out of the boat carry a few leftover beers is in a string bikini giving me all kinds of hell saying she wants a bass boat and when not fishing we need to be golfing. I told her " honey you are going to get me killed. 99 percent of these guys here are catching hell from there wives because they fish too much and half of those probably golf, AND you look like you stepped off the cover of Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition!" And, " after they kill me they are going to kidnap you :). Will let you know how the day goes.


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