Big Game Rifle Cartridges

[foggy]

Keep it coming Foggy. I'm in the "Amen Corner" with you on this.

Question: If I bought another Tikka T3 like my 22-250 in a larger caliber like a 270 or 30-06, what do you think that my chances are of getting a tack driver?

I have never owned a Tika...but only heard good things about them. With a new gun.....you just won't know how its going to shoot until you play with it a bit. When I was really into some long-range hunting......I once bought a new Sako in 7mmSTW. Fast stepping bullets in that gun!! Figured I could not go wrong.

Put a Swarovski 6x18 scope on it....and played with it for months....trying to get it to shoot to my satisfaction. It would "come and go" in the accuracy department......and I never did get any lasting confidence in the gun. I did kill one elk at long range with it....but I attribute that to my good shooting skills....and a good rest (and some good luck that day). Also had a hard-luck story with that gun.

Finally, I got disgusted. Decided to quit wasting my time and money on it.....and traded it away for a new Kimber Montana rifle (300 WSM). Best thing I ever did. Very happy with the later gun. (But it could have happened the other way around.....both are good brands.)

Point is this.....guns are easy to trade.....and it does not pay to own one that is giving you heartburn. Yep...it may cost you a few hundred dollars to try something different. If your un-happy after buying a guy.....suck it up, move on....and chalk it up to experience. My .02 cents.

 

[wklman]

My brother uses a 7mm ultra mag for long range hunting out here. My 3 nephews have shot a bunch of animals from 200 to 600 yards with it. He's lucky he's got a retired neighbor that loves to reload and has a private range to work up loads. All my brother does is take the rifle over there with a pound of h1000 and a box of 168 gr bergers and the guy does everything else. He gives them a drop chart so they know exactly how many clicks to adjust the scope for longer ranges. Wish l could find a neighbor like that.

 

[Jim Timber]

I often tell people I won't keep a gun that won't shoot minute of angle or better. My friends all cringe and say "so don't buy a used gun from you then" - I tell them "No, if I'm selling it to you it's good. If I'm selling it on Gunbroker, you don't want it!" :)

 

[foggy]

I often tell people I won't keep a gun that won't shoot minute of angle or better. My friends all cringe and say "so don't buy a used gun from you then" - I tell them "No, if I'm selling it to you it's good. If I'm selling it on Gunbroker, you don't want it!" :)

To me it all depends on where you hunt and what your hunting for. In thick cover a gun that shoots 2MOA or so, may be just fine. But at long range - or small targets, not so much. A western gun had best be under 1" MOA for any serious long range work......and prairie dog guns need to be 1/2 of that.

 

[Jim Timber]

Inaccurate guns aren't interesting to me. Even my .22lr's will do sub MOA.

 

[foggy]

Inaccurate guns aren't interesting to me. Even my .22lr's will do sub MOA.

I agree with your accuracy quest, I like accurate guns and loads too....but at what range will you hold "sub MOA" with your 22lr? :D

 

[Jim Timber]

I haven't shot it past 50yds yet, but it's a tack driver at that range even with junk bulk ammo. If I concentrate, I can nail a 1/2" dot every time.

This isn't even the best group at 50yds. 10 shots

I'm also no stranger to modifying boom sticks:

 

[foggy]

OK....this is gonna come off as sarcastic.....and I know what your intent was.....so take this with a grain of salt. (You do show good accuracy here....IMO)

But.....1 MOA = 1 Minute Of Angle......which is 'quite close" to 1" groups at 100 yards.....adding about 1" to the group size for each additional 100 yard increment. So.....at some range, the bullets fired from any gun fail to maintain a level of accuracy as the gun variations, velocity variations, projectile variations, and effects of the wind all take their toll.

With the 22lr that event usually happens short of 100 yards. So claiming "sub moa" at short ranges is a bit suspect here Jim. :cool:;) I mean..... then ALL my guns hold "MOA" if the ranges are short enough. :rolleyes: Show me your 100 yard targets with that 22 load.....and then we'll talk. :D A 22lr that will hold 1moa AT 100 YARDS is a pretty svelte gun. At 10 yards - not so much. :)

(Hey - its still "winter" and we need something to banter about :D)

 

[Native Hunter]

OK....this is gonna come off as sarcastic.....and I know what your intent was.....so take this with a grain of salt. (You do show good accuracy here....IMO)

But.....1 MOA = 1 Minute Of Angle......which is 'quite close" to 1" groups at 100 yards.....adding about 1" to the group size for each additional 100 yard increment. So.....at some range, the bullets fired from any gun fail to maintain a level of accuracy as the gun variations, velocity variations, projectile variations, and effects of the wind all take their toll.

With the 22lr that event usually happens short of 100 yards. So claiming "sub moa" at short ranges is a bit suspect here Jim. :cool:;) I mean..... then ALL my guns hold "MOA" if the ranges are short enough. :rolleyes: Show me your 100 yard targets with that 22 load.....and then we'll talk. :D A 22lr that will hold 1moa AT 100 YARDS is a pretty svelte gun. At 10 yards - not so much. :)

(Hey - its still "winter" and we need something to banter about :D)

I was shooting a Ruger 10-22 22 lr one day off my dad's bench and thought it was doing pretty good. Getting around dime sized groups at 30 yards. Dad comes walking out with a little TC 22 lr semi-auto that he says that its some kind of special model (with target grade barrel) that TC once put out. He tells me to try it. I shoot 5 shots through it and have one tiny ragged hole at 30 yards. Wasn't too impressed with my Ruger after than. I think the TC would do sub moa at 100 but didn't try it.

 

[foggy]

Gonna have to have a 22 rimfire shoot-out Jim. I got a Remington 541T that needs a worthy competitor. ;):D

 

[foggy]

I was shooting a Ruger 10-22 22 lr one day off my dad's bench and thought it was doing pretty good. Getting around dime sized groups at 30 yards. Dad comes walking out with a little TC 22 lr semi-auto that he says that its some kind of special model (with target grade barrel) that TC once put out. He tells me to try it. I shoot 5 shots through it and have one tiny ragged hole at 30 yards. Wasn't too impressed with my Ruger after than. I think the TC would do sub moa at 100 but didn't try it.

After about 75 yards.....those groups likely will open up pretty quickly. All the bad comes into play as the velocity decreases and the range increases. Still.....long range rimfire can be lots of fun.....if you can find any ammo. o_O

 

[Native Hunter]

After about 75 yards.....those groups likely will open up pretty quickly. All the bad comes into play as the velocity decreases and the range increases. Still.....long range rimfire can be lots of fun.....if you can find any ammo. o_O

10-4 on finding any 22 ammo. Craziest thing I have ever seen around here.

 

[Jim Timber]

OK....this is gonna come off as sarcastic.....and I know what your intent was.....so take this with a grain of salt. (You do show good accuracy here....IMO)

But.....1 MOA = 1 Minute Of Angle......which is 'quite close" to 1" groups at 100 yards.....adding about 1" to the group size for each additional 100 yard increment. So.....at some range, the bullets fired from any gun fail to maintain a level of accuracy as the gun variations, velocity variations, projectile variations, and effects of the wind all take their toll.

With the 22lr that event usually happens short of 100 yards. So claiming "sub moa" at short ranges is a bit suspect here Jim. :cool:;) I mean..... then ALL my guns hold "MOA" if the ranges are short enough. :rolleyes: Show me your 100 yard targets with that 22 load.....and then we'll talk. :D A 22lr that will hold 1moa AT 100 YARDS is a pretty svelte gun. At 10 yards - not so much. :)

(Hey - its still "winter" and we need something to banter about :D)

Means that it needs to hold 1/2" groups at 50 yds - which I've proven this one can if I can do it. (I can't always do it)

I'd gladly take a shoot off. I have just the place for it too. See you June 7th. :D

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Any of you hunt with the berger lvd's.Whats your feedback? I'm thinking of working up a load with the 155's for my 308...My buddy had a box the other day an they dang near blinded me they were so shiny! I have always used varget but thinking of trying ar comp. Its sounds like some good stuff, meters well, not temp sensitive, burns clean etc.. An plus vargets always out of stock cuz everybody uses it:mad:

 

[foggy]

Any of you hunt with the berger lvd's.Whats your feedback? I'm thinking of working up a load with the 155's for my 308...My buddy had a box the other day an they dang near blinded me they were so shiny! I have always used varget but thinking of trying ar comp. Its sounds like some good stuff, meters well, not temp sensitive, burns clean etc.. An plus vargets always out of stock cuz everybody uses it:mad:

I have a couple of pounds of Varget.....but never have used it. It's pretty versatile powder and I've seen pretty good load data with it.....I just always have had a slightly different alternative....or didn't want to work up a new load with it. Not sure about Lvd's....but have watched Walt Berger poleaxe a pronghorn with his bullets at a pretty impressive range. Almost everyone agreed his bullet expanded nicely for use on whitetails. Still, Ive not hunted with Berger bullets....unless PD's and paper are hunting. Walt always used "off the shelf" bullets to compete with at bench rest matches....and he is in the bench rest hall of fame. So was his wife Eunice.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Yep Foggy
I think the key is separating by weight. I have loaded some dang accurate loads with weight separated hunting bullets but. Good accurate scale helps too:)

 

[foggy]

Small variations can ruin accuracy. These variations can be by weight or small dimentional variations. In reloading: variations in bullet weight is huge....but case variations from mixing brass brands or lots can make a big difference too.....as the case capacity can be slightly (or significantly) different. Uniformity is one of the biggest friends to accuracy.

When buying new brass.....I often check the brass at the case mouth to determine variations in the wall thickness of the cases. I sometimes use a caliper to measure....but if its significant, a trained eye can even see the differences. There is a "thick side" and a "thin side" to all brass.....and the degree of this condition.....will cause cases to become slightly....to significantly "banana-shaped" after firing.....also leading to poor accuracy due to concentricity issues.

Concentricity can be a big factor. Roll those reloads on a flat surface and look at the bullet tips. If you can see big variations at the bullet tip.....it's likely you will have bigger groups. Better yet, you can measure it with a concentricity gage. If I have more than .002" of bullet "runout" ......I don't use the load for hunting. (Benchrest loads may have .0002" of run-out....hard to measure it.)

When seating the bullets, I almost always rotate my cases 90 degrees and seat the bullet again. Seems to measurably improve the bullet alignment and concentricity of my rounds. Takes a bit longer....but it's worth it. :)