Beginner Questions

[RJAJr]

Very nice thread. Thank you for the update!! I’m in a very similar situation to you as of last year. I’d be a happy man if I get results on year 2 similar to what you’ve showed here.

Quick question, did you overseed with rye in Aug last year? If so, how’d that go?

I’ve got a nearly identical scenario although I did two plots totaling approx 1-1.5 acre this year with plans to expand to 3-4 acres next year, maybe a bit more in years to come. I’m considering this year as an experiment and a learning curve and to extrapolate that in years to come.

Great looking plots, thank you for sharing.

I stopped by the farm today to make sure we did not have any storm damage, things look good. However shockingly the Chicory in the plots has started to bolt pretty heavily in the last week. I was looking over the plot and thinking maybe I did not get as good of weed control as I thought. But upon closer examination most of it is chicory bolts. So this should line up well with my mowing schedule. I am going to let it bolt out over the next few days then mow the bolts and clover tops. The chicory bolts can get very woody in the plot if not controlled. My deer did not eat any bolts last season although some say their deer love them. I know that had nothing to do with your question but it shows how these crops and plots can change quickly once the right growing conditions exist.

Here is the advice I tend to follow from the national Deer association regarding the Chicory bolts.

In Summer, Chicory Will Produce Tall, Stemmy Bolts On Which The Flowers Appear. These Stems And Flowers Are Poor Forage, So It Is A Good Idea To Mow Chicory At This Stage To Prevent Bolting And Keep Growth Focused On Leafy Forage.​

 

[omicron1792]

I stopped by the farm today to make sure we did not have any storm damage, things look good. However shockingly the Chicory in the plots has started to bolt pretty heavily in the last week. I was looking over the plot and thinking maybe I did not get as good of weed control as I thought. But upon closer examination most of it is chicory bolts. So this should line up well with my mowing schedule. I am going to let it bolt out over the next few days then mow the bolts and clover tops. The chicory bolts can get very woody in the plot if not controlled. My deer did not eat any bolts last season although some say their deer love them. I know that had nothing to do with your question but it shows how these crops and plots can change quickly once the right growing conditions exist.

Here is the advice I tend to follow from the national Deer association regarding the Chicory bolts.

In Summer, Chicory Will Produce Tall, Stemmy Bolts On Which The Flowers Appear. These Stems And Flowers Are Poor Forage, So It Is A Good Idea To Mow Chicory At This Stage To Prevent Bolting And Keep Growth Focused On Leafy Forage.​

Know it can take deer several seasons to start to like a new food source. I have heard over and over deer love the chicory bolts. I bet your deer acquire a taste soon.

Nothing wrong with mowing. I do think the idea of mowing clover to make it more palatable for deer is dated info and has been disproven though.

 

[RJAJr]

Know it can take deer several seasons to start to like a new food source. I have heard over and over deer love the chicory bolts. I bet your deer acquire a taste soon.

Nothing wrong with mowing. I do think the idea of mowing clover to make it more palatable for deer is dated info and has been disproven though.

I am not sure on the palatable part and I tend to agree with you, but I believe that mowing helps stimulate the plant to produce stolons. Believe me, after all this rain here I have spent enough of my summer on mowers. But those chicory shoots turn really woody. Can't imagine anything eating them once the flower is spent, they may eat the flowers or green bolts.

 

[omicron1792]

I may have already posted but read Craig Harper about mowing clover. No one has done more scientific work on food plots than him. He only mows clover once in late summer to prepare for next growing season.

You’ve already sprayed and have a great looking plot. Just enjoy looking at it and go fishing or something. There is no reason to mow that plot right now unless you are just itching for some tractor time.

 

[davidhelmly]

I may have already posted but read Craig Harper about mowing clover. No one has done more scientific work on food plots than him. He only mows clover once in late summer to prepare for next growing season.

You’ve already sprayed and have a great looking plot. Just enjoy looking at it and go fishing or something. There is no reason to mow that plot right now unless you are just itching for some tractor time.

You’re spot on about Craig Harper and on mowing clover. This is probably one of Craig’s articles that you are referring to.

https://fwf.tennessee.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/24/2021/07/Managing-perennial-forage-plots_QW28.3.pdf

 

[rocksnstumps]

Read the article. Parts of it as usual are reporting on what happens in their part of the world. I'm not a herbicide for every problem kind of guy and I mow to prevent the latest flush of broadleaf weeds from going to seed in my clover. This is usually several times a summer. Do agree the clover palatability hype with mowing is overblown and do not mow just based on that.

The article references in the South a few times with dry periods mid summer and weeds tending to seed out late summer. Well by me some years it's different weeds trying to seed all summer long (remember north has short summers tho). Yellow rocket late spring, thistles soon after and into summer and pigweed can be later for example.

Mowing does nothing for grasses over the long haul though and herbicides of some kind are likely needed but not every year.

Maybe the article should first state if you love to herbicide every year you can keep your mowing down to once per season.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Read the article. Parts of it as usual are reporting on what happens in their part of the world. I'm not a herbicide for every problem kind of guy and I mow to prevent the latest flush of broadleaf weeds from going to seed in my clover. This is usually several times a summer. Do agree the clover palatability hype with mowing is overblown and do not mow just based on that.

The article references in the South a few times with dry periods mid summer and weeds tending to seed out late summer. Well by me some years it's different weeds trying to seed all summer long (remember north has short summers tho). Yellow rocket late spring, thistles soon after and into summer and pigweed can be later for example.

Mowing does nothing for grasses over the long haul though and herbicides of some kind are likely needed but not every year.

Maybe the article should first state if you love to herbicide every year you can keep your mowing down to once per season.

The mowing for weeds thing makes sense to me. In the case of the OP, that is one clean looking plot so I wouldn't see a reason to mow it.

I know Higgins always mentions weed control as a primary reason to mow but they also tout nutrients and palatability from new growth. I wasn't a big fan of how Don and Terry wrote off Harper's work on the subject on a podcast though.

Edit: didn't read the actual Harper article before, interesting that mowing seemed to actually increase weed coverage. However, that doesn't seem to account for any benefits in future years of mowing before weeds set seed?

 

[omicron1792]

Realize that Craig Harper is not selling anything. He is a professor at the University of Tennessee. He runs numerous test plots to put out this data, not look how good my food plot is and look how big my deer are.

Of course, everything is regional, but the Craig Harper stuff is different than most of the other stuff people read.

Like most things we do, it is based on what others that we trust have told us. Mowing clover is an old strategy that we have been Taught for many years. The data just doesn’t back it up. He does say that mowing some broad leaves right before they set viable seed has some benefit. The rest is old fudlore with no science.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Edit: didn't read the actual Harper article before, interesting that mowing seemed to actually increase weed coverage.

^^^^ this is one part that seems regionally biased to me. Hot, crispy conditions more prevalent down south in mid summer dry up vegetation and allow bare spots and thus more openings for weeds. Hear it all the time from southerners that their clover goes dormant during the summer. Summer is their stress period, not winters yada, yada

While the northerners complain they can' t throw and mow into clover for summer plantings of fall food plot stuff cause too thick and no germination. My clovers stay thick and grow great all summer most years.

"Follow the science". Do so for your region and conditions. I follow the common sense and over decades of experience where I am on certain points.

Many points Harper or his graduates put out are great. Not 100% universal truth for all though.

 

[PatinPA]

^^^^ this is one part that seems regionally biased to me. Hot, crispy conditions more prevalent down south in mid summer dry up vegetation and allow bare spots and thus more openings for weeds. Hear it all the time from southerners that their clover goes dormant during the summer. Summer is their stress period, not winters yada, yada

While the northerners complain they can' t throw and mow into clover for summer plantings of fall food plot stuff cause too thick and no germination. My clovers stay thick and grow great all summer most years.

"Follow the science". Do so for your region and conditions. I follow the common sense and over decades of experience where I am on certain points.

Many points Harper or his graduates put out are great. Not 100% universal truth for all though.

Man I get cold winters with no snow and hot/dry summers. I threw down yellow sweet clover and some BOB clover in late winter/early spring and barely a sign of it. Clover just doesn't work for me for some reason, yet I just keep trying to get it to grow. Stubborn I guess.

 

[jsasker007]

Man I get cold winters with no snow and hot/dry summers. I threw down yellow sweet clover and some BOB clover in late winter/early spring and barely a sign of it. Clover just doesn't work for me for some reason, yet I just keep trying to get it to grow. Stubborn I guess.

Sometimes if you can get a cover crop growing with your clover it gives enough shade and helps to retain more moisture. Winter rye has worked well for me here in Minnesota. Rye also helps keep the weeds down.

 

[Newbie]

Man I get cold winters with no snow and hot/dry summers. I threw down yellow sweet clover and some BOB clover in late winter/early spring and barely a sign of it. Clover just doesn't work for me for some reason, yet I just keep trying to get it to grow. Stubborn I guess.

I'm just a few hours to your east and I've got almost the exact opposite problem most of the time. Recent years we haven't had much snow, but so much rain throughout spring and summer I've had a hard time getting the lawn mowed and fields brush hogged.