Bedding Area Orchard Design Ideas?

[PoorSand]

I have a hogback ridge that the bucks run the trail on top of heavily during the peak of the rut (roughly October 30 – November 10 around here). We hunt that trail during the peak of the rut only.

This summer, a storm tipped over more than an acre of 100+ year old pines on the spine of the ridge.

The bucks run the trail because it goes through a ten acre major bedding area. I am thinking I could keep up to an acre clear of the white pine volunteers on the spine of the ridge and plant some apple trees.

The soil is super sandy. I haven’t had it tested yet, but since my best soil tests out at under 1% organic matter and this part of the property was planted into pines in the 1800’s, I’m thinking this soil is probably exceptionally depleted.

Does anybody have any suggestions? The more off-the-wall, the better. I am wide open to ideas.

 

[Native Hunter]

You said the more off-the-wall the idea the better, so I'm going to hit you with one that you weren't expecting - Don't plant the apple trees there.

Why..........Because you said it was a good bedding place and used heavily during the rut. If you plant apple trees there, you will be going in often doing work, checking, maintaining, etc....etc...etc. It could be enough human presence to ruin the bedding.

So, plant the apple trees off in another nearby area where you can have an orchard but not ruin a good thing. Besides, those nearby pines will grow fast and it will be hard in the future to keep the apple trees from being shaded by them. Plus, apple trees in a woods don't do as well because of all the other larger trees constantly sucking out the soil moisture. Not the best thing when you are already starting out with sandy soil.

How's that for off-the-wall?

 

[PoorSand]

Native Hunter: Thanks for your perspective. You might well be right. All ideas are highly welcome. I just realized that I could have said that the main road through my property brushes right up beside the tree blowdown area. Also, I could have said that apple trees on my property grow best in at least 75% shade. Thinking of everything to say on posts is always a challenge for me. Please keep the ideas flowing.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

If it’s a ridge top with white pines growing it’s going to be rocky,sandy,and dry. Not the best place to plant apple trees.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[homerj]

"Super sandy" soil and apple trees aren't great together

 

[PoorSand]

S. T. Fanatic: Thanks for your input. The ridge is actually just a pile of coarse sand deposited by the last glacier. It has no rocks or gravel in it. Please keep the ideas flowing though.

 

[PoorSand]

Homerj: Thanks for the input. My best apple trees are growing in even worse soil than this. I don't have great apple trees, just the best ones in the neighborhood, because nobody else even tries to grow them.

 

[Suburbhunter]

I can appreciate wanting to take a great area and make it even better, if that's possible. But why mess with an already good thing? I'm thinking leave as is and continue to enjoy the rut hunting. Good Luck!!!

 

[homerj]

If you're in central WI on sand, you must be dealing with low ph too? Are you successfully growing apple trees in soils with ph in the 4s and 5s? Are you liming pre-plant? Just curious

 

[PoorSand]

Suburbhunter: Good perspective.

 

[PoorSand]

Homerj: Without testing the soil, I'd estimate that the pH of the Plainfied series soil (thank goodness it's not Coloma series soil) is likely around 5.6, based on past experience. I have several tons of agricultural lime on hand, so pH shouldn't be a problem. My soil has so little organic matter that I have been able to spread three tons of lime per acre in October in other spots and plant alfalfa the following spring without tilling. The potassium level will likely test out very low. The phosphosous level will likely test out excessive. The land has been in the family a long time.

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Maybe a small island of 3-7 trees that will drop some but not an overwhelming amount of sweet candy treats right during peak rut. Keeps a couple does checking the area from time to time but prevents them from relying on it as a major food source so more of a pass through thing. Pick the location with the best access that correlates with your predominate winds. Go with DR crabs, less overall maintenance(at least they seem to be in my location)

Also, never know when a big buck might want a quick midday snack among the security cover on a high ridgetop/pine jungle to bring up the sugar levels to keep the energy high.

 

[PoorSand]

Trampled: I like your suggestion. I forgot to mention that I planted a dozen apples trees a few hundred yards further down the ridge twenty years ago. They are on the side of the ridge. The slope is 26%. They are not great growers, but my cameras tell me that the bucks visit them midday during the rut, possibly for the moisture they contain or the sugar content as you suggest. I hadn't thought of the sugar content aspect before.

 

[PoorSand]

Experimenting won't cause me to go into bankruptcy. Please keep the creative ideas flowing.

 

[PoorSand]

Homerj: If you are in Central Wisconsin, you may be able to get loads of lime delivered from the quarry in Mayville.

 

[homerj]

I am not. I just have a bit of knowledge about the area.

 

[sandbur]

You said the more off-the-wall the idea the better, so I'm going to hit you with one that you weren't expecting - Don't plant the apple trees there.

Why..........Because you said it was a good bedding place and used heavily during the rut. If you plant apple trees there, you will be going in often doing work, checking, maintaining, etc....etc...etc. It could be enough human presence to ruin the bedding.

So, plant the apple trees off in another nearby area where you can have an orchard but not ruin a good thing. Besides, those nearby pines will grow fast and it will be hard in the future to keep the apple trees from being shaded by them. Plus, apple trees in a woods don't do as well because of all the other larger trees constantly sucking out the soil moisture. Not the best thing when you are already starting out with sandy soil.

How's that for off-the-wall?

I have to agree with NH.

Also, if planting trees on sandy soil for generations, it seems like lifespan of apple trees is shorter on light soil. It might be due to my cold winters in combination with the sand.

Still, don’t change something that works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[j-bird]

I'm in the no-plant boat as well. Putting food in there just complicates things. Don't "fix" what isn't broken. Find a location with better soil, good access and where you can hunt better to put your apples. You will need to mess with them (spraying and pruning and checking cages) and having them away from a bedding area will reduce your impact. Make the deer come to the food....it's much easy to hunt them that way....as we can set a "trap" for them with a little planning. Good luck.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Might be helpful if you share a map of the area (and even surrounding area, as that can play an even BIGGER role in what the area is missing / might point to what's best to do).

Above shared, without being able to visualize the precise layout of your land and what it features (not just hilltop but other areas as well), I'd vote for putting the trees away from the bedding area for multiple reasons. First, as Native Hunter pointed out, it's going to require quite a bit of intrusion and depending on how much care you have to give the trees the intrusion could be required regularly for years. You also could discourage deer foot traffic if they don't have to leave the bedding area for food, making it even harder for you to approach the area without getting busted and alarming them. On the other hand, if you strategically locate the apple trees elsewhere you can help MAXIMIZE deer traffic in a designed way to allow you to hunt them as they move between a well-defined bedding area and feeding area.

If you're open to sharing a map image, sure several folks on here could make some solid suggestions on ideal spots to consider that might not be on the sandy hilltop.

 

[PoorSand]

Thanks everybody. It looks like the "don't do it" votes have won. I appreciate your advice. What had given me the idea in the first place was that quite a ways down the same ridge I had a quarter acre of pine trees tip over in 1998 within a bedding area. Just like in this spot, the cleanup equipment drove over all the understory trees in the tipover area, killed them, and left behind about a foot of limbs (mulch) over the entire surface of the clearing. The next year I planted potted apple trees there and just walked away, not doing any maintenance at all on them until two years ago. Most survived and now that they are bearing I have bucks coming in to them at any time of day during the rut to check for doe scent. Maybe I just go lucky with that spot though.