Bachelor groups lasting into mid October?

[j-bird]

Ok - I don't have a lot of bucks that call my place home so I don't have a lot of experience with bachelor groups. This year I had a pair of bucks show up on cam and one is a nice buck 3 or 4 year old buck and the other is a yearling or 2 y/o. I don't get them on the cam often, but I got them back in September in velvet and I figured as soon as antler hardened they would go their separate ways. I got them on cam from over the past 2 week and they are hard anlters and still together. The videos seemed to show no ill will between them either. It has been decently cold here so I don't think it's weather related and I am starting to see some rubs and scrapes as well. Is it "NORMAL" to see bucks still together this late???

 

[bigbendmarine]

I've seen it numerous times throughout the years... in fact the first deer I ever show MANY moons ago was an 8 point that let a younger 4 point lead the way crossing a creek bed. It was almost like it really was USING it for security detail.

Shared a question on the same issue a few years back... video in the thread shows a couple of sets together.
http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/old-friend-stopped-by.8572/#post-158438

 

[j-bird]

I've seen it numerous times throughout the years... in fact the first deer I ever show MANY moons ago was an 8 point that let a younger 4 point lead the way crossing a creek bed. It was almost like it really was USING it for security detail.

Shared a question on the same issue a few years back... video in the thread shows a couple of sets together.
http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/old-friend-stopped-by.8572/#post-158438

Yep - that seems to be what I am seeing on my cam. The smaller one leads and shows up first and then the bigger/older one follows at a short distance. I just figured the bigger one would have run the smaller one off by now. It will be interesting to see if they continue this into the actual rut and the like. I wouldn't think so, but what do I know...

 

[bigbendmarine]

Just theorizing, but as long as the bucks are clearly in two different classes it might be a case of the dominant buck not viewing the inferior buck as any threat... no need to fight it to prove anything, and if smart enough maybe the older buck's way of using it as the Tour De France's equivalent of a "domestique"... with the unenviable task of the inferior buck to be a bullet sponge, face predators first, etc... while that theory strikes me as plausible for the dominant buck, bigger question is why the inferior would prefer the arrangement... maybe the assurance it won't face a surprise run-in / fight with the dominant buck? Still... giving up almost any chance with the ladies...

Be interested to see if anyone else chimes in with observations / theories.

 

[Boll Weevil]

It's perfectly normal here and also might have something to do with rut timing. The rut really doesn't get cranking for my area until early December so bucks will tolerate one another until does start coming in...after that all bets are off.

 

[FarmerDan]

It's like the captain sending the private out to reconnoiter. You go first and if you survive I will be right behind you. And if you find the girls, get out of the way because, umm, my _ _ _ _ is bigger than yours.

Seriously. It happens quite often here on the farm in Virginia. Funniest thing, a couple years ago ijn October there was this fawn(?)- button buck (?) with just tiny, tiny spikes sticking thru his hair. I think he thought he was a big buck. Seems like he would seek out the biggest buck(s) and just hang out with them. The big buck would grunt a deep grunt and the little one, we called him Tiny Tim, would go 'beep!' None of the other deer seemed at all bothered by it. I don't know what happened to the little guy.

 

[j-bird]

I guess I just never really figured deer to have that level of thought process. We as humans can rationalize that...not so sure deer "think" that way. It's just something I have not seen much of here. I have another button/spike that is tagging along with a yearling/2 year old as well. Maybe the "buddy system" is more of a thing than I thought. I just figured the establishment of core areas and the like would put essentially all the male deer at odds with each other once antlers hardened. I will certainly keep an eye out for the "sacrificial lamb"... and wait for the "trailer"!

 

[Bill]

I’m still seeing bachelor groups on cam. Up to 4 at a time. They only seem to split up in the heat of the rut around me.

Even then some young bucks still hang together.

They “the small one” also seem to touch antlers all season. Never seen them really fight. That’s why if I rattle it’s jist a click clack really slow like they do in nature. I Never do that smash them together like you see on TV.

A little click clack goes a long way :).

 

[Booner21]

These guys are still together saw them a week ago together with that doe being pushed not sure how long they will stay friends.

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[alldaysit]

I think the term for small bucks being with a big buck is called a big bucks “totie”. At least that’s what I call them. The bigger bucks tote the little ones around for some reason. I’ve shot multiple mature bucks with smaller ones in front of them. I have watched them interact together prior to harvest as well. These harvests were always later in the season. It seems during the last week of October till about the first three weeks of November they all split up.


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[Apple Junkie]

The bachlor groups I see are usually hanging around a hot doe that is already with an attending boy friend. These inferior bucks are just waiting for the big guy to let down his guard so they can get lucky. The other time is when there is food to be had, then they seem to set aside their differences to get a mouthful or two. Ya never know what you will see, that's what keeps it interesting.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Ok - I don't have a lot of bucks that call my place home so I don't have a lot of experience with bachelor groups. This year I had a pair of bucks show up on cam and one is a nice buck 3 or 4 year old buck and the other is a yearling or 2 y/o. I don't get them on the cam often, but I got them back in September in velvet and I figured as soon as antler hardened they would go their separate ways. I got them on cam from over the past 2 week and they are hard anlters and still together. The videos seemed to show no ill will between them either. It has been decently cold here so I don't think it's weather related and I am starting to see some rubs and scrapes as well. Is it "NORMAL" to see bucks still together this late???

i call them "village people" bucks.........

bill

 

[j-bird]

I’m still seeing bachelor groups on cam. Up to 4 at a time. They only seem to split up in the heat of the rut around me.

Even then some young bucks still hang together.

They “the small one” also seem to touch antlers all season. Never seen them really fight. That’s why if I rattle it’s jist a click clack really slow like they do in nature. I Never do that smash them together like you see on TV.

A little click clack goes a long way :).

I do the "click clack" as well. I have watched two yearling bucks shove each other around before and they don't make as much noise and as such I try to mimic that sound vs an all out buck war.

 

[j-bird]

I have only seen a breeding party once before and damn is it exciting. The videos I am getting don't seem to show any dogging of does at the moment so maybe once things here heat up things will change. I was just a little surprised to see two different "buddy systems" in the works. I figured once hard antler showed up they would spread out.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Wish I had the clip shortened to just the single part of the video I'm referencing but think a few things are particularly interesting about the footage that starts at the 1:04 mark in the video...

1) the time frame isn't outside the rut window but instead well in it for our neck of the woods (early Dec)
2) the buck that is leading the way for another buck isn't a spike or yearling. Does have half his rack broken off, but a decent buck for our Florida neck of the woods
3) even with his broken rack the buck in front has enough testosterone firing in his system to stiffen up for a fight against the old buck that runs off in his precense
4) after challenging the old buck, the lead buck with the broken horn looks back over his shoulder towards the buck coming into the frame he appears to be escorting into a field that held several does

I can't say that bucks think in human terms and I sure can't always read their minds, but seems to be some interesting dynamic was playing out.... just hope and pray that the bucks weren't as Tree Daddy described "village people" bucks.