article on the MN apple program
- Thread starter kabic
- Start date
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Maybe there is not a market for it, but I would like to see them evaluate a few trees for hardiness and prolonged drop times aimed at feeding the deer thru noirthern Mn. winters and not at the human palate. I tried to reach him with an email a few years ago, but no reply.
SD51555
5 year old buck +
Well said! I'd buy that.
chummer
5 year old buck +
We had Sweet Tango for $1.49 a pound and Honeycrisp were $2.99. I bought 3 bags of the Sweet Tango, best apple I have ever had. Kids ate them like candy. Unfortunately the store only got one shipment of them. They only had them for one week and have not had any since and it was probably close to two months ago.
Jim Timber
5 year old buck +
Maybe someone who's chummy with a commercial grower could prune some of the club trees to get jailbroke offspring?
I wish I knew someone in the U's agriculture department. Snipping some scions would be too easy. :)
I wish I knew someone in the U's agriculture department. Snipping some scions would be too easy. :)
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
There are a number of grocery store varieties that will hit the market soon or at least could. The problem as I see it now is that the apple development programs have to slow down the release of new varieties otherwise they dont get much bang for their buck. If you release more than 1 or 2 a year then you saturate the market and decrease the impact of any one particular variety. Apple varieties are kind of like "Dunstan Chestnuts", big hype for a while and then they fade and the next one takes over to run its course.
I doubt there is enough interest to spend the time, money, and land space to develop a food plotters apple. That is probably where the "wild" apples up north would rule. Finding and propagating exsisting apples that are growing wild that serve your needs is probably a more feasible approach.
I doubt there is enough interest to spend the time, money, and land space to develop a food plotters apple. That is probably where the "wild" apples up north would rule. Finding and propagating exsisting apples that are growing wild that serve your needs is probably a more feasible approach.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
If Auburn can patent and release chestnut cultivars for wildlife, it surely could be done for apples too. While the apple researchers are focused on commercial, there has to be somebody who knows apples that likes deer hunting. Pair them with deer biologists and see what happens. It could be a small pet project with a shoestring budget.
The key is to avoid grafting and to piggyback on existing work. While seedlings are a possibility, the result is too variable. I would look at modern rootstocks which are already well studied, were selected for disease resistance, and are propagated in high volume at low cost. Info on fruiting is limited but I am sure the rootstock researchers know more than they publish because their customers do not care. I have found published data on a few rootstocks. I have already been thinking about this rootstock approach for part of my deer orchard.
The key is to avoid grafting and to piggyback on existing work. While seedlings are a possibility, the result is too variable. I would look at modern rootstocks which are already well studied, were selected for disease resistance, and are propagated in high volume at low cost. Info on fruiting is limited but I am sure the rootstock researchers know more than they publish because their customers do not care. I have found published data on a few rootstocks. I have already been thinking about this rootstock approach for part of my deer orchard.
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
I am "apple stupid" for the most part, so bare with me here. Apples from seed are variable, so given that fact, would one be able to take a "wild" tree root sprout and have it be a clone of the parent tree? Since it is not coming from a seed that may have had variable pollinators, and is coming directly from the roots of a tree with known attributes, would it not stand to reason that the child tree would be an exact clone of the parent? Not saying one could or couldn't do this with "known" rootstocks, but as wildlife managers, when you have a wild tree with known traits that you would like to propagate, would this be a viable option to grafting scions from the parent tree?
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Assuming it was not a grafted tree, any root sprouts are the same as the tree. The sprout can then be propagated by stool beds just like rootstocks are.
wiscwhip
5 year old buck +
Yes, this is what I was thinking. Not a grafted tree, only "wild" type trees that have known deer/wildlife friendly attributes, such as late drop times or ones that grow in specific conditions, such as the "swamp" crab that sandbur has on his place.
That part I do understand wooduck, I was strictly looking at non grafted "wild" type trees and a way to propagate them without grafting. I'm sure grafting to a known, disease resistant rootstock is still the quickest to fruiting and safest(less failures) way to a good producing apple tree, be the scions a commercial variety or a "wild" type, but it seems this is a viable option to the whole grafting thing if one has any trees that fit the bill.
Thanks for the answers by the way!
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
Viable option possibly, best option not unless the parent tree produces suckers prolifically. Grafting is not a difficult process, especially on a small scale project such as reproducing a small number of a individual tree. There are a number of reasons commercially available root stock is not propagated by root cuttings.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Propagation of known good wild deer apples is a good approach but still would be considerable work to clone and propagate like rootstocks are. All you know right now is it is a good tree for that location. What you don't know is how it behaves everywhere else. How does it do on different soils, climates, disease resistance, is it easy to propagate by stool beds, etc. Those things have all been studied for rootstocks used in the big multistate grower trials.
Of course any apple tree can also be propagated by grafting to avoid some of these issues. It just makes for expensive trees unless you can do the grafting yourself.
Of course any apple tree can also be propagated by grafting to avoid some of these issues. It just makes for expensive trees unless you can do the grafting yourself.
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
I almost suggested organizing our own research effort but, really, what would be the goal? For grafting, there are more varieties that are available and work for both me and deer than I have room to plant. I know when they flower, drop, disease resistance, cold hardiness, etc. All I dislike is paying $15-$20 a tree for a bare root grafted tree. I intend to learn grafting so I can reduce the cost of filling out my orchard. But once I have enough varieties for eating and cider, I don't really need more grafted trees. If I could plant rootstock for $2-3 each and get a specific result for deer, I'd be excited at that cost without having to do my own grafting.
I would be more interested in a co-op study on persimmons.
I would be more interested in a co-op study on persimmons.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I have gown some apple trees from root suckers and from a piece of root. I just takes patience. I have a graft from a wild crab that Stu supplied and it took. Can be done.
Somewhere in here is a thread on Zone 3 apples for deer. We struggle with hardiness in the northland. I feel some of the prairie crab apples/apples from North Dakota and the old Canadian prairie apple projects are a good place to start.
Somewhere in here is a thread on Zone 3 apples for deer. We struggle with hardiness in the northland. I feel some of the prairie crab apples/apples from North Dakota and the old Canadian prairie apple projects are a good place to start.
Turkey Creek
5 year old buck +
Back on the "other" site we had a scion exchange thread and I would venture a guess that we will here as well. Maybe we could make it into more of a "sticky" type post where guys and gals can list their varieties and more of the growth type details of how that variety has performed at their location. A post that would stay at the top so information is readily accessible. Some of us already have trees that were the result of exchanges with other forum members so we could have some information regarding certain trees in multiple locations. CrazyEd did a great job of compiling the threads covering major topics regarding apple production on the "other" site mabe at some point he will feel inclined to do it again!o_O
chickenlittle
5 year old buck +
Anything that gives root suckers should readily be propagated by stool bed. In stool beds, the tree is allowed to get the roots established first. Then the tree is cut off at ground level to encourage suckering. Sawdust or sand is piled up as the suckers grow to encourage root formation. Next spring, pull back the sawdust, cut off the suckers and plant. Repeat year after year.
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Jim Timber
5 year old buck +
The problem is that we've paid for all this research via taxes and the university is running it as a business. If you take public money to run these programs, your results should be public property. Just my opinion on research schools.
Looking deeper, it appears that any MN grower can get rights to the UofM's cultivars. I'm not sure what that entails, but I wouldn't want them as a commercial option, only because the Sweetango's sound good and it'd be nice to have a tree or two.
Bowsnbucks
5 year old buck +
Hey guys, I just looked at some apple trees that have been producing for years in a COLD northern Pa. mountain valley. I took some pix and I have to get my neighbor to help me put them on here for you guys to see. I stopped to ask if I can get some scion wood in the spring, but nobody home. I'll stop again next week when I get back upstate. I mentioned this attempt by me to get scion wood on another thread ( I don't remember which one ). These trees still have apples hanging on them as of today, Dec. 3rd. If they tell me I can get scion in the spring, I'll ship some to a few of you guys if you'd like. I just need to be told how to pack & preserve them, how long to cut them, do I cut IN last year's growth or just below it in 2 yr. old wood. I'll do some research on that stuff, but welcome any advice. I'm even gonna try grafting just because these trees have a good number of apples still hanging. If they can survive all those years in that freezer of a valley, they should make a good deer apple. Anyone interested, if they become available?
Jim Timber
5 year old buck +
How cold is cold to you? We had some nights with -30's last winter.
