Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[bwoods11]

There is an example in Iowa where the buck quality actually went down after going to one buck. Don't hold me to the details, but the Amana Colonies is roughly 26,000 acres of restricted access hunting. Around 20 years ago it was changed from 2 bucks to one buck and the buck quality has gone down. The theory is that one buck has led to more high grading because guys used to shoot the first decent buck, which was often a management buck, then hold our for a hero. Now they are waiting for a great buck, which is often a high potential 3 or 4 year old.

I believe they are going back to 2 bucks tags so it will be interesting to see if the quality returns.

I’m gonna say in some counties (1) buck would make sense, & others (2) maximum would be better… in Iowa .

In Minnesota there are counties that should be a lottery . One buck every 3-4 years. There are not many deer in SW MN period.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Aspen stands respond quickly to harvest, you'd think this would make for good habitat/stem count for food/cover even with wolves on the landscape? Especially the past few winters where the snow never got real deep.

You'd think, doesn't make good thermal cover though. The family land and surrounding public i used to hunt up there was surrounded by big recent clear cuts that are thick aspen regen. Deer were still hurting. Been a couple years since i've spent time there though.

 

[jsasker007]

I think the habitat is lacking in S.W. MN. Lots of farmland but not many trees. Up North there's lots of trees but not much for crops. Finding a good balance that deer prefer without crazy hunting pressure is a persons' best bet in Minnesota in my opinion. Glory days are gone for the most part for me. It was when we used to get together and hunt with a bunch of family members. Those are the fondest memories and the best times for me. Just memories now as most of the people who participated are gone now. Now I'm just out hunting by myself out my back door. Still love spending the time out in the woods even if it's just me. Would be nice to have someone to share it with though.

 

[sandbur]

I think the habitat is lacking in S.W. MN. Lots of farmland but not many trees. Up North there's lots of trees but not much for crops. Finding a good balance that deer prefer without crazy hunting pressure is a persons' best bet in Minnesota in my opinion. Glory days are gone for the most part for me. It was when we used to get together and hunt with a bunch of family members. Those are the fondest memories and the best times for me. Just memories now as most of the people who participated are gone now. Now I'm just out hunting by myself out my back door. Still love spending the time out in the woods even if it's just me. Would be nice to have someone to share it with though.

My daughter and her boyfriend hunted the first day and each got a deer. After that, it is just my wife and I hunting.

The other day, I was wondering if I had 5 years of hunting left.

It’s not necessarily a priority anymore to shoot a big buck but just to have an enjoyable hunt. Things change with age.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

Seems like most of it is pulp wood. A lot of the huntable corporate timber land where I spend time is owned by Blandin Paper. Most of the harvested timber is aspen.

I used to work for a small paper company. Spent most of my years there in the pulp mill. We used balsam and aspen about a 70/30 mix for paper strength. We made copy paper and food wrap which is way different than shiny magazine pages.
I looked at Blandin's website and it looks like they use aspen and pine. Aspen regen was great for the deer when I had my land logged, but I'll agree food isn't the only thing deer need.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

We hunt a lot of weyerhaeuser paper company land in Wisconsin, but over the years most of those properties have been sold off to hunters. It is quite a loss for hunters because there were thousands of acres of private ground open to public hunting and now most of those properties are posted. Those properties typically had better than average habitat because they were logged frequently, but I expect that to change as some of the new owners may not be as interested in logging. The wolves follow the deer around in these areas with good habitat and we have found some pretty gory deer kill sites while grouse hunting those properties in winter.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

We hunt a lot of weyerhaeuser paper company land in Wisconsin, but over the years most of those properties have been sold off to hunters. It is quite a loss for hunters because there were thousands of acres of private ground open to public hunting and now most of those properties are posted. Those properties typically had better than average habitat because they were logged frequently, but I expect that to change as some of the new owners may not be as interested in logging. The wolves follow the deer around in these areas with good habitat and we have found some pretty gory deer kill sites while grouse hunting those properties in winter.

Most frustrating part of improving habitat in wolf country is that doing so congregates deer and in turn wolves to feed on them.

 

[Telemark]

Most frustrating part of improving habitat in wolf country is that doing so congregates deer and in turn wolves to feed on them.

Are you guys allowed to set snares for wolves?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Are you guys allowed to set snares for wolves?

No wolf killing allowed in Minnesota and there there's currently not a hunting/trapping season in Wisconsin although that may change. I'm not sure if snares were allowed in Wisconsin when wolf hunting/trapping was allowed. I know they shot the crap out of the wolves when they last had a season. Hunters have learned how to hunt wolves using hounds and it is unbelievably effective.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Are you guys allowed to set snares for wolves?

Federally listed on endangered species act, no way man. Doubt our blue controlled state would let us do it even if they were delisted. There are snare breakaway requirements for snaring coyotes that are spec'd around wolves and deer being able to break free. Would be cool though, i'm just learning to snare and got my first couple coyotes in my 6 acre yard last week!

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Only a matter of time till this is legal

Baltimore to Use Sharpshooters with Night Vision to Purge Deer

Sharpshooters outfitted with night vision will be enlisted to purge hundreds of deer from Baltimore, Maryland, city parks.

www.breitbart.com

 

[SwampCat]

Only a matter of time till this is legal

Baltimore to Use Sharpshooters with Night Vision to Purge Deer

Sharpshooters outfitted with night vision will be enlisted to purge hundreds of deer from Baltimore, Maryland, city parks.

www.breitbart.com

If deer hunting with thermal ever became legal for deer - it would make hunting over bait look like hunting with a slingshot. When I bought my thermal, I went from killing ten hogs per year during daylight on my property to killing over 150 per year at night. I could kill every mature buck on my place with my thermal in a week.

 

[Mortenson]

I'd like to think legions of hunters would storm capitols if things got that ridiculous.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I'd like to think legions of hunters would storm capitols if things got that ridiculous.

Giving the desire to make it easier and easier, I bet all that would happen is thermal companies would make a killing

 

[SwampCat]

Giving the desire to make it easier and easier, I bet all that would happen is thermal companies would make a killing

You might need to be more particular about the folks you hang with

I probably know 20 big time thermal hunters - and we have all had that discussion. None of them would support that - in fact - most would support banning use of thermals scopes during deer season.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I just haven’t seen us (hunters) be adamant about strengthening our regulations…forgive me for my cynicism but I have a lot of examples to the contrary

 

[Baker]

Giving the desire to make it easier and easier, I bet all that would happen is thermal companies would make a killing

I ask you this question purely out of curiosity. How do you hunt? Rifle? Bow? elevated blinds or on foot? Over food plots? Stalking in woods?How big are properties you hunt? Etc Any detail you care to share. My curiosity is to better understand the context from which you come and what you justify for yourself as proper and maybe even understand why you draw so many lines . I respect that you are outspoken with your beliefs. Doesn't mean I agree but I enjoy thought provoking debate especially based on personal experience

 

[SwampCat]

I just haven’t seen us (hunters) be adamant about strengthening our regulations…forgive me for my cynicism but I have a lot of examples to the contrary

I see a lot that take it upon themselves to be more selective. It actually amazes me because I have known a lot of these guys for forty years or more and they would have killed the first two spikes they saw 35 years ago and now a lot of them are eating their tags - even in Louisiana, of all places. A new state record non typical was killed 40 miles from my place his year. That deer was probably passed multiple times by multiple people in its life. It amazes me at the people I know who dont even kill a deer during season who’s goal was to shoot a limit 20 years ago.

While I dont live in a prime area for trophy quality antlers, I do live in an area where it is not that difficult to secure 1000 plus acre leases where hunters have incentive to pass deer. I am in a lease of 800 acres with 6 members - it is 160 acres of water and the rest great deer habitat - and none of the lease members has deer hunted it in the three years we have had it leased - and there are some great deer in the area. All of us have other areas just as good.

I believe you when you describe the hunting mentality of your area. I dont think you believe me when I am describing my area - but I am telling the truth. I have thought about this a fair bit and I am pretty well convinced the difference in the area is land availability.

It is fairly easy to get in a lease here of 1000 to 5000 acres. I have been in leases here of 800, 2000, and 4000 acres. Prices are not as high as most states.

I truly think if our ground produced antlers like Iowa, we would put them to shame because of cover and land availability. It is probably not that easy for three or four guys to go lease 1000 acres - or more - of deer cover in Iowa at an equitable price. That is fairly easy to do here - especially if you are local, know quite a few folks - and have a little money.

But the main reason we have fairly easy private land access - is our ground rarely grows a five yr old 150” deer. Folks from all over the country arent coming here to kill 125” deer. If your next door neighbor outfitter was the only one hunting that land - like my buddy hunting 1100 acres next door - your hunting would be better too. My buddy chose not to even kill a deer this year.

Yes, I have a lot of smaller landowners who are killing a bunch of deer - but most arent killing the bigger mature bucks - they are hunting spin feeders and filling freezers - mostly with does.

Another guy I know passed this buck this year not far from my place. It wont get passed if he gets on my land if we have a chance

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I ask you this question purely out of curiosity. How do you hunt? Rifle? Bow? elevated blinds or on foot? Over food plots? Stalking in woods?How big are properties you hunt? Etc Any detail you care to share. My curiosity is to better understand the context from which you come and what you justify for yourself as proper and maybe even understand why you draw so many lines . I respect that you are outspoken with your beliefs. Doesn't mean I agree but I enjoy thought provoking debate especially based on personal experience

Absolutely. And I can already see the angle that will played against me…if I’m not hunting in loincloth with a slingshot then I’m a hypocrite. Fine. We all are to a degree.
I hunt alone on 650 acres, I bring that part up to say the quality of deer that use my property is not subpar due to over hunting. I only hunt with a bow out of hang on stands or occasionally a climber. I dont hunt over bait or flood my properties with 800 cameras so I can watch deer diddle themselves. Yes I hunt over shitty food plots I work on every year but I’ll never be convinced that’s the same as baiting. I also pass on a hell of a lot of deer with potential and some that are “trophies” in an effort to achieve that next level. To put it honest, I’m the neighbor 99% of the country would love to have. With that said I don’t think my neighbors have to do what I do. That’s ridiculous.
You had the opportunity to do something 99.9% of the hunting population doesn’t have the chance to do and basically said (I’m putting words to your actions so forgive if they aren’t spot on) “I don’t agree with your actions, even if they are legal, and I’m taking matters into my own hands.” Now I’ll save you my opinions of high fences, for the record I’m not 100% against them, I just don’t want to debate that here. But I can’t and won’t fence so I’m at the mercy of hoping regulations and ethics win out to preserve quality hunting. I define quality as hunting deer within a balanced age structure. Right now I can promise you my property and most properties I know of are not fishing in that pond. We have a huge skew towards too many does, immature bucks and a few high graded misfits. Is that our role as managers? I don’t think so but maybe I’m getting into the ethics too much? I have stated before in my 30 years of hunting I’ve seen regulations relaxed several times over in an effort to make it easier to take game (bucks). My hill to die on is no less relevant than the guy who wants “to let everyone hunt the way they want to hunt as long as it’s legal”. Remember a lot of what we are allowed to legally do today was illegal at some point. So 20 years ago if you said baiting is wrong and illegal as a Georgia resident, technically you were right. Today you say that and you are a dick who can’t let people live and let live. And then to throw on top of the relaxed regulations, the technology has improved exponentially over the last couple years, and in my opinion, the result is less quality bucks as the original post of this thread alluded.
Soooo all that said I’m trying in vain and maybe selfishly, to do what I think is right for the species and the experience, no different than the guy who is advocating for crossbows or legalization of bait.

 

[SwampCat]

I think a lot of folks fail to remember there is usually some management plan behind regulations. Iowa restrictive regulations - are they restrictive to save deer intentionally to increase the age structure - no, the restrictions are there to allow hunters an opportunity without killing too many - or too FEW deer.

Are Arkansas seasons of 8 weeks with modern gun, bait hunting, dog running, rut hunting, crossbow hunting set up to wipe out the deer - no - we kill about the same percentage of the herd every year as does Iowa. The regs are set to allow hunters an opportunity without killing too many or too few deer. If Iowa had AR regs, there wouldnt be a deer left. If AR had Iowa regs, you would run one over before reaching the end of your driveway.

I remember when I hunted in GA in the 1970’s. There were two or three doe days with a limit of one doe. Now you can shoot them for months with a limit of ten. Did GA DNR arbitrarily just relax restrictions for the heck of it, to make it easy to kill them with no reason? No, not hardly. I used to hunt almost every weekend for the 6 week season and see one or two deer all season. They made it easier to kill deer because there were more deer. But, GA has also stopped firearm hunting for deer on north GA pubic lands because of a decline in deer density.

Generally, there is some science behind hunting regulations and they arent just set willy nilly as some believe.