Are the glory days of deer hunting coming to a close?

[Bill Loser]

I like to eat venison so antlers are just a bonus if a decent bucks happens to show up. Always have a variety of bucks passing through during season it's just if I am in the right spot at the right time or not. I gave up on cameras close to 10 years ago. I guess I like to be surprised by what runs out in front of me instead of seeing a bunch of bucks on camera but never seeing them during season. The glory days for me was when everyone was still around and the family hunting was something special. Now I just go out hunting by myself.

110% of this. Too much emphasis on horns, not enough for the experience, family, and most of all the animals.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

But how do you know 100% - that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. A monster was killed off the land Dawgs bought. We are talking about spending seven figures in most places to buy enough land to actually manage. I have a 62 acre tract away from the rest of my property that was a little honey hole. Last year, the leasees in the adjoining 800 acres changed hands and believe me - it isnt the same and there is not one thing I could do about it. Cwd can hit near you and they increase the season and bag limit. I bought my place mainly because of the duck hunting and fishing - deer were down the list. We kill one tenth the ducks we used to and we catch one tenth the fish we used to. In my opinion, jumping ship and moving around in hopes of finding greener pastures is most likely a fools errand - unless - of course - you just have funny money

I was listening to Lee lakosky talking about his strategy for buying land and he kept harping on neighbors. Which i totally get. But that’s a ballsy strategy to base almost everything on. Every piece of property is for sale for the right price, so even the best neighbors could sell. Now if you talking bordering a military base or state park or giant river/lake, I get that but individual landowners are unpredictable.

@Hoytvectrix this guy is must be getting “help” from neighbors. I would love to think even the perfect 400 would hold mature bucks but those deer are definitely wandering around the neighborhood. Obviously his track record speaks but while 400 is big for an individual, it’s a hop skip and jump for a buck

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Couldn’t help it

 

[Mtyhunter]

110% of this. Too much emphasis on horns, not enough for the experience, family, and most of all the animals.

Agreed. awhile back i was posting about my hunting coming full circle. Started deerhunting at 12 with grandpa and uncle. Brown jersey gloves on, sometimes tubesocks for gloves. Mtn Dew in my back pocket and a gun/longbow in my hand. Meeting up at the truck for bologna sandwiches at lunch. Then me at 12-13 driving them old farts back home on dirt roads. Next day shooting the first deer I saw, and having them show me how to gut/skin/process it up.
We cowboy camped alot too. They did that for me because I was always up long before they were, raring to go, and they would mosey around too much in the morning, and cause us to be late. So they just bit the bullet and and took me camping, sleeping on the ground, or in the bed of the truck, so I could get out there before daylight while they sat around drinking cowboy coffee
As I got more experienced, the antlers started to matter. I was getting more aggressive every year. The old farts got older, I got more and better equipment, spent more days in the field when those guys couldn't be there, etc. More emphasis on the big buck than the family aspect.
Now that I'm older, and own most every trinket you could have for deer hunting, I'm back to sticking a Mtn Dew bottle in my back pocket, and just sitting down at the base of a tree with my grandson. I look forward to our conversations before we get there, and when we all meet back up at the end of the day. He soaks up everything I tell him, and it makes me proud of him. I can see my younger self in him already. He's not going to be a snowflake when he grows up, for sure.
yes, i want muy grande like everyone else. but if i had to choose between a 180" buck or giving up hunting with my son and grandson, there is no decision to even make. The simple family dynamic and beautiful nature is the ultimate prize.

 

[SwampCat]

110% of this. Too much emphasis on horns, not enough for the experience, family, and most of all the animals.

You can have both, you know - but maybe not your area

 

[Brian662]

But how do you know 100% - that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. A monster was killed off the land Dawgs bought. We are talking about spending seven figures in most places to buy enough land to actually manage. I have a 62 acre tract away from the rest of my property that was a little honey hole. Last year, the leasees in the adjoining 800 acres changed hands and believe me - it isnt the same and there is not one thing I could do about it. Cwd can hit near you and they increase the season and bag limit. I bought my place mainly because of the duck hunting and fishing - deer were down the list. We kill one tenth the ducks we used to and we catch one tenth the fish we used to. In my opinion, jumping ship and moving around in hopes of finding greener pastures is most likely a fools errand - unless - of course - you just have funny money

I guess just keep pounding your head into a brick wall because the grass may not be greener? Idk what to say other than "scared money don't make no money"....or however the saying goes.

 

[SwampCat]

I guess just keep pounding your head into a brick wall because the grass may not be greener? Idk what to say other than "scared money don't make no money"....or however the saying goes.

Or pounding your head in the grass because you just spent millions and wasnt what you thought. 640 acres means at the very center of the property where it is furthest from a neighbor means it is 1/2 mile - about a 15 min leisurely walk - in any direction - to be on someone elses property. What is the likelihood of neighbors on all four sides all exhibit the greatest of restraint. This isnt about buying a great piece of property - that is easy. It is about buying a great piece of property with fantastic neighbors all the way around. I wonder what the chance of that is. Personally; I have never seen that on any of the dozens of properties I have hunted - with the exception of one time —- and then the lea-sees on the adjacent property changed overnight as did the deer hunting.

I dont see a high likelihood of success - from my experience and the experiences of most on this forum. But I wish the best of success to anyone who wants to try it. Maybe someone like that will buy that 800 acres next to my little 62 acres

 

[Bill Loser]

You can have both, you know - but maybe not your area

You can ,not saying you can't at all. Just seems to be horns or trophy above all else these days. To me it takes away from the rest. The "glory days" don't ever have to be over if you never forget the......basics ,I guess is the best way I can put it.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I’m not claiming to be the voice of “trophy hunting” but I would like to defend it. I think guys who value antlers absolutely enjoy their time, at least I know it’s what I look forward to most in life. It’s even what shapes my motivation professionally and has even influenced where I live! At lot of the guys on here and that I know don’t have a measuring contest with inches of antler. It’s about the opportunity to match skills with the finest representation the species can provide. Just being in their presence is such a unique and rare experience that it can be worth every penny and minute of effort.
On a macro scale, “trophy hunting” has probably done more to positively impact the landscape than any other movement for land and wildlife. It’s lead to unbelievable scientific breakthroughs and discoveries and protections. Those breakthroughs get implemented all across the country with immeasurable benefits to all species. It’s lead to advancements in animal welfare and well being. It’s led to preventing even worse fragmentation of land. Economically the effects are measured in the billions between real estate transactions, hunting products and things like equipment. If the goal was to go out with a couple buddies and shoot the first basket rack 8 point you wouldn’t need any of that. Is research organizations like MSU deer lab even a thing if there was just “meat hunting”? Give me 10 acres, a bucket and a 30/30 and season is done the first day. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, it’s just not set up for giving back to the species and landscape, rather a singular event to fill a tag.
That’s a long rant, and believe me I get the nostalgia and value in just enjoying the basics, I really do. I look back at my old days as a kid in deer camp with the most fondest memories. But if I’m being honest the hunting sucked! I wouldn’t trade places with those days for millions of dollars. And that’s why I hope we don’t screw ourselves by making quality a bell shaped curve in time. Where early years were just about the kill and quality sucked. Middle years, management became relevant yet we lacked all the technology to become efficient killers and deer grew to old age. To current, where we have all the technology and knowledge and we are killing ourselves out of top end quality.
End of essay!

 

[Bill Loser]

I’m not claiming to be the voice of “trophy hunting” but I would like to defend it. I think guys who value antlers absolutely enjoy their time, at least I know it’s what I look forward to most in life. It’s even what shapes my motivation professionally and has even influenced where I live! At lot of the guys on here and that I know don’t have a measuring contest with inches of antler. It’s about the opportunity to match skills with the finest representation the species can provide. Just being in their presence is such a unique and rare experience that it can be worth every penny and minute of effort.
On a macro scale, “trophy hunting” has probably done more to positively impact the landscape than any other movement for land and wildlife. It’s lead to unbelievable scientific breakthroughs and discoveries and protections. Those breakthroughs get implemented all across the country with immeasurable benefits to all species. It’s lead to advancements in animal welfare and well being. It’s led to preventing even worse fragmentation of land. Economically the effects are measured in the billions between real estate transactions, hunting products and things like equipment. If the goal was to go out with a couple buddies and shoot the first basket rack 8 point you wouldn’t need any of that. Is research organizations like MSU deer lab even a thing if there was just “meat hunting”? Give me 10 acres, a bucket and a 30/30 and season is done the first day. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, it’s just not set up for giving back to the species and landscape, rather a singular event to fill a tag.
That’s a long rant, and believe me I get the nostalgia and value in just enjoying the basics, I really do. I look back at my old days as a kid in deer camp with the most fondest memories. But if I’m being honest the hunting sucked! I wouldn’t trade places with those days for millions of dollars. And that’s why I hope we don’t screw ourselves by making quality a bell shaped curve in time. Where early years were just about the kill and quality sucked. Middle years, management became relevant yet we lacked all the technology to become efficient killers and deer grew to old age. To current, where we have all the technology and knowledge and we are killing ourselves out of top end quality.
End of essay!

Don't read into it to much. I'm not bashing you or anyone for trophy hunting. Just saying there is so much emphasis on horns and inches that it takes away from it all for me. A lot has to do with being a meat hunter first , I get that.
I would say in all honesty, I would trade what I have now to go back to the beginning ,yes the hunting sucked but the experiences were awesome. We saw a lot of deer, but back then we had 1 antler less tag, and you sat on that until the last weekend. Well by the last weekend just finding a deer was a challenge. But I loved every minute of it.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Don't read into it to much. I'm not bashing you or anyone for trophy hunting. Just saying there is so much emphasis on horns and inches that it takes away from it all for me. A lot has to do with being a meat hunter first , I get that.
I would say in all honesty, I would trade what I have now to go back to the beginning ,yes the hunting sucked but the experiences were awesome. We saw a lot of deer, but back then we had 1 antler less tag, and you sat on that until the last weekend. Well by the last weekend just finding a deer was a challenge. But I loved every minute of it.

Oh for sure I didn’t take anything negative from your comment. I was just defending the entire ethos of trophy hunting. The name makes it sound bad
But it is fun to trade war stories about back in the day. We had five tags which was pointless, I remember only seeing 30 deer in a 4 month season!

 

[Bill Loser]

I’m not claiming to be the voice of “trophy hunting” but I would like to defend it. I think guys who value antlers absolutely enjoy their time, at least I know it’s what I look forward to most in life. It’s even what shapes my motivation professionally and has even influenced where I live! At lot of the guys on here and that I know don’t have a measuring contest with inches of antler. It’s about the opportunity to match skills with the finest representation the species can provide. Just being in their presence is such a unique and rare experience that it can be worth every penny and minute of effort.
On a macro scale, “trophy hunting” has probably done more to positively impact the landscape than any other movement for land and wildlife. It’s lead to unbelievable scientific breakthroughs and discoveries and protections. Those breakthroughs get implemented all across the country with immeasurable benefits to all species. It’s lead to advancements in animal welfare and well being. It’s led to preventing even worse fragmentation of land. Economically the effects are measured in the billions between real estate transactions, hunting products and things like equipment. If the goal was to go out with a couple buddies and shoot the first basket rack 8 point you wouldn’t need any of that. Is research organizations like MSU deer lab even a thing if there was just “meat hunting”? Give me 10 acres, a bucket and a 30/30 and season is done the first day. Not that there’s anything wrong with that per se, it’s just not set up for giving back to the species and landscape, rather a singular event to fill a tag.
That’s a long rant, and believe me I get the nostalgia and value in just enjoying the basics, I really do. I look back at my old days as a kid in deer camp with the most fondest memories. But if I’m being honest the hunting sucked! I wouldn’t trade places with those days for millions of dollars. And that’s why I hope we don’t screw ourselves by making quality a bell shaped curve in time. Where early years were just about the kill and quality sucked. Middle years, management became relevant yet we lacked all the technology to become efficient killers and deer grew to old age. To current, where we have all the technology and knowledge and we are killing ourselves out of top end quality.
End of essay!

As far as the economic aspect, I'm not 100%you are right on that. No way to prove it at all but my gut says things economically wouldn't be much different without the "inches " era. It would look different yes. And there is the other aspect that the overall health of the deer herds across the country are probably healthier with a more balanced buck to down ratio. You I guess I would say you are both right and wrong?? As am I I'm sure! Lol

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

As far as the economic aspect, I'm not 100%you are right on that. No way to prove it at all but my gut says things economically wouldn't be much different without the "inches " era. It would look different yes. And there is the other aspect that the overall health of the deer herds across the country are probably healthier with a more balanced buck to down ratio. You I guess I would say you are both right and wrong?? As am I I'm sure! Lol

You can argue if this is a good or bad thing but what would land prices be in southeast Iowa without the opportunity to hunt giant deer? The land isn’t that valuable from an ag perspective so something is making it worth $6-10k an acre…and it isn’t bird watching. What about things like property consultations to game cams to aircraft aluminum deer stands to ultra high end fabrics on hunting clothes. You don’t need that necessarily if you are out to whack the first opportunity. How many 6’ grain drills and 75 hp tractors have been bought by guys looking to improve their land for larger bucks? I’d argue it would be in the multiple billions of economic impact in just the last couple years honestly.

 

[Bill Loser]

Oh for sure I didn’t take anything negative from your comment. I was just defending the entire ethos of trophy hunting. The name makes it sound bad
But it is fun to trade war stories about back in the day. We had five tags which was pointless, I remember only seeing 30 deer in a 4 month season!

When I started we hunted in north Central Wisconsin it was nothing to see 30 to 40 a day the first couple days,all running like mad and almost all antler less. But we didn't shoot does until later in the week, when you couldn't find a deer! Lol. Those days were magic, hanging with my dad and uncles, and they're friends . Loved every second . Those were my glory days

 

[Bill Loser]

You can argue if this is a good or bad thing but what would land prices be in southeast Iowa without the opportunity to hunt giant deer? The land isn’t that valuable from an ag perspective so something is making it worth $6-10k an acre…and it isn’t bird watching. What about things like property consultations to game cams to aircraft aluminum deer stands to ultra high end fabrics on hunting clothes. You don’t need that necessarily if you are out to whack the first opportunity. How many 6’ grain drills and 75 hp tractors have been bought by guys looking to improve their land for larger bucks? I’d argue it would be in the multiple billions of economic impact in just the last couple years honestly.

You may be right. But without a time machine there is no way to know for sure.
I know I have a tractor and all the implements even though I don't manage for horns. Maybe others would too? Not sure . Fun to noodle on though

 

[Double Creek]

I was listening to Lee lakosky talking about his strategy for buying land and he kept harping on neighbors. Which i totally get. But that’s a ballsy strategy to base almost everything on. Every piece of property is for sale for the right price, so even the best neighbors could sell. Now if you talking bordering a military base or state park or giant river/lake, I get that but individual landowners are unpredictable.

@Hoytvectrix this guy is must be getting “help” from neighbors. I would love to think even the perfect 400 would hold mature bucks but those deer are definitely wandering around the neighborhood. Obviously his track record speaks but while 400 is big for an individual, it’s a hop skip and jump for a buck

I listened to that yesterday and it confirmed my belief that’s it’s mostly related to pressure. The good old days of a county full of farmers having a few hundred acres that no one really hunts is definitely over. Lakosky said his best farm is surrounded by county roads, which keeps neighbors off the lines and killing all the 3 & 4 year olds.

 

[sandbur]

I like to eat venison so antlers are just a bonus if a decent bucks happens to show up. Always have a variety of bucks passing through during season it's just if I am in the right spot at the right time or not. I gave up on cameras close to 10 years ago. I guess I like to be surprised by what runs out in front of me instead of seeing a bunch of bucks on camera but never seeing them during season. The glory days for me was when everyone was still around and the family hunting was something special. Now I just go out hunting by myself.

I haven’t used cameras for about 15 years and I still enjoy the hunt. The cameras were nice to see the other wildlife and were great for when our daughters were little.

I like the old time scouting. My binoculars and checking tracks on the gravel roads works just fine for me.

Living on the property gives me a pretty good picture of other wildlife and even the deer herd. The rut does bring other bucks in.

I am at the point in life where I want to enjoy every day of hunting as the end of those days are in sight. I don’t want to fret about what the neighbors shoot or don’t shoot. I have been through that phase and try to not worry about it anymore. I just hope they have an enjoyable hunt.

Perspectives and goals change as we age.

 

[Brian662]

I was listening to Lee lakosky talking about his strategy for buying land and he kept harping on neighbors. Which i totally get. But that’s a ballsy strategy to base almost everything on. Every piece of property is for sale for the right price, so even the best neighbors could sell. Now if you talking bordering a military base or state park or giant river/lake, I get that but individual landowners are unpredictable.

In this same page of this thread we've had the full spectrum on neighbors. Lee saying neighbors can ruin everything and Hoyt saying the neighbors are too good.

 

[Brian662]

Or pounding your head in the grass because you just spent millions and wasnt what you thought. 640 acres means at the very center of the property where it is furthest from a neighbor means it is 1/2 mile - about a 15 min leisurely walk - in any direction - to be on someone elses property. What is the likelihood of neighbors on all four sides all exhibit the greatest of restraint. This isnt about buying a great piece of property - that is easy. It is about buying a great piece of property with fantastic neighbors all the way around. I wonder what the chance of that is. Personally; I have never seen that on any of the dozens of properties I have hunted - with the exception of one time —- and then the lea-sees on the adjacent property changed overnight as did the deer hunting.

I dont see a high likelihood of success - from my experience and the experiences of most on this forum. But I wish the best of success to anyone who wants to try it. Maybe someone like that will buy that 800 acres next to my little 62 acres

I don't think there are many on this forum managing several hundred contiguous acres, tto be fair.

I've said it many times here before, I think the absolute best way to kill a giant in the upper Midwest every year is to have 10 different 40 acre chunks as opposed to a 400 acre contiguous farm. More headaches, more logistical issues, more variables, sure. More access to different herds and the odds of having a 170 on or near those 10 different parcels is likely 3-4x what it is to having one every year on a single tract, IMO.

 

[BenA]

I'm sure these guys may be having their glory days in Iowa right now.