Apples, If you were to pick just 3

[deepsleep]

Here are a few more pictures this AM showing rootstock comparisons. The previous picture showed the south side of my pond. On the west side, we planted crabapple seedling from Coldstream and "protected" them with mesh cages. You can see the south side wire cages in the distance.
As soon as early fall rolled around, a small buck thrashed every single seedling



We put wire cages on these and let them grow for a few years. Most had tiny fruit, so I topworked all but one sometime around 2016. They grew extremely fast and fruited within a couple of years. Here is one of those trees 2 years ago (Arkansas Black, I think). These trees haven't gotten nearly as much care the last few years, but if you ignore the suckers, you can see where the tree was topworked.
One more pic from the last 2 years that shows how different varieties have different levels of dwarfing, even on the same rootstock. On the back right corner of the pond are Violi on Anton, which are huge. As you move to the left, they are all M7 rootstock trees. The first 3 are the smallest, they are Centennial Crab. Then there are 4 Chestnut Crab, which are a little larger, followed by Galarina, which is a good bit larger. The last 2 trees (out of view) are Florina Querina on M7. They are close in size to Galarina, perhaps slightly smaller.

 

[H20fwler]

I’m glad topping the droptine turned out, the bears top mine for free even though I wish they’d stop! Maybe there is hope.

A few of my droptine have had such high fruit production at a young age, I wouldn’t be surprised to see a few branches break, especially with the assistance of a coon or bear. They’re loaded every year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Droptine was one of the first "just for wildlife" apples I put out... I'm glad we don't have bears in my area, that sounds like a whole bunch of problems.
Early on I had droptines almost look weepy the way branches were sagging and bending with fruit loads.

 

[gunfun13]

Here are a few more pictures this AM showing rootstock comparisons. The previous picture showed the south side of my pond. On the west side, we planted crabapple seedling from Coldstream and "protected" them with mesh cages. You can see the south side wire cages in the distance.View attachment 65505
As soon as early fall rolled around, a small buck thrashed every single seedling

View attachment 65506

We put wire cages on these and let them grow for a few years. Most had tiny fruit, so I topworked all but one sometime around 2016. They grew extremely fast and fruited within a couple of years. Here is one of those trees 2 years ago (Arkansas Black, I think). These trees haven't gotten nearly as much care the last few years, but if you ignore the suckers, you can see where the tree was topworked.View attachment 65507
One more pic from the last 2 years that shows how different varieties have different levels of dwarfing, even on the same rootstock. On the back right corner of the pond are Violi on Anton, which are huge. As you move to the left, they are all M7 rootstock trees. The first 3 are the smallest, they are Centennial Crab. Then there are 4 Chestnut Crab, which are a little larger, followed by Galarina, which is a good bit larger. The last 2 trees (out of view) are Florina Querina on M7. They are close in size to Galarina, perhaps slightly smaller. View attachment 65508

I wish I had seen these size comparisons 7+ years ago. The antonovkas are certainly impressive. I started with mostly B118s and am having leaning issues with many already. The year I started grafting in bulk for myself I tried ordering B118s but everyone was sold out, so I used M111. I think of that as a blessing now.

Will be interesting to see what kind of size my trees on dolgo rootstock put on compared to everything else I have.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

We've had some leaning on B-118 at camp, but not on all varieties. Don't know why. Our soil is clayish loam, with mostly small stones in it. Some bigger rocks - size of dinner plates. MM-111, Antonovka, Dolgo, and P-18 rootstocks have done well for us on a variety of trees. One of our biggest "newer" trees (planted in 2013) is a chestnut crab on Antonovka. For our soil - if any existing trees crap-out on us for any reason, including bears - they'll be replaced with trees on Antonovka, P-18, Dolgo, or MM-111. Bigger, woodier trees = better for us with bears.

 

[bigboreblr]

The first sentence in a B118 description is vigorous. Im wondering if B118 was selected as a rootstock because it's efficient. Colder growing seasons in less fertile soils.

Good moisture combined with fertilizer might be making the B118 go too fast. This article says they're prefered rootstock with spur type trees.

https://extension.umd.edu/sites/extension.umd.edu/files/publications/AllAboutAppleRootStocks_FS_2022-0638.pdf

Deepsleep,

They say M7 bear fruit earlier than M111. Any truth to this matter?

 

[deepsleep]

The first sentence in a B118 description is vigorous. Im wondering if B118 was selected as a rootstock because it's efficient. Colder growing seasons in less fertile soils.

Good moisture combined with fertilizer might be making the B118 go too fast. This article says they're prefered rootstock with spur type trees.

https://extension.umd.edu/sites/extension.umd.edu/files/publications/AllAboutAppleRootStocks_FS_2022-0638.pdf

Deepsleep,

They say M7 bear fruit earlier than M111. Any truth to this matter

I found that M7 did bear a bit earlier, perhaps 1-2 years, but there are other variables. The apple variety definitely makes a difference. For example, Yates on M111 bore very quickly, while Enterprise on M111 seemed to take forever. Goldrush was quick on M111 but Liberty was fairly slow (in between Goldrush and Enterprise). The fastest combination to substantial fruit load was Galarina on M7, as well as Chestnut, Dolgo and Centennial on M7. Violi's on Anton wasn't far behind and quickly surpassed the others in size and fruit load around (I'm guessing) 7th or 8th leaf. In my case, I have a lot of trees surrounding small food plots in the woods. Those trees took longer to bear and have grown much slower than those in the yard in full sun. In fact, I have a Violi on Ant that still hasn't fruited yet. For what it's worth, the crab seedlings I topworked were 4 years old. They bore 2 years later, and quickly became large trees with heavy fruit loads. The downside to those is they have lots of suckers, much worse than M7/MM111, B118. As for stability, I staked/trained all of these trees for several years, and none have fallen over, but a couple of the Galarinas on M7 started leaning after a big storm. The others seem solid. Also, several of the B118 trees have started to take off a bit more and bear, but for me, they haven't performed as well as for others. One final thing, if you are growing for deer, the standard trees are amazing, especially the low spray/no spray varieties. If you are planting for human consumption, M7 is plenty large to prune/train/spray/pick. When spraying those standard trees, I often feel like I need a whole tank for 1 tree. It wasn't long ago I could do all of the trees around the yard with 1 tank!

 

[homerj]

When spraying those standard trees, I often feel like I need a whole tank for 1 tree. It wasn't long ago I could do all of the trees around the yard with 1 tank!

What do you use for a spray mix?

 

[deepsleep]

What do you use for a spray mix?

Depends on when I can get to the farm. I always spray Immunox once as it takes care of CAR, as well as Captan every time for additional fungal coverage. For insecticide, I either use Imidan or sometimes Triazicide depending on timing. Imidan is nasty stuff but takes care of PC, even if you're a few days late. I try to spray twice, a couple weeks to a month apart and find I get excellent deer apples with plenty that are good enough for human consumption.

 

[Telemark]

Droptine was one of the first "just for wildlife" apples I put out... I'm glad we don't have bears in my area, that sounds like a whole bunch of problems.
Early on I had droptines almost look weepy the way branches were sagging and bending with fruit loads.

You don't know how right you are. They chew on things and move them around seemingly just for fun. I've had two cameras ripped down and destroyed. Several trees destroyed. They even rip tags off of trees and chew on them and spit them out. A few of my cages were apparently swatted around, damaging the trees in the process. I'm going to see if the guys I hunt deer with up here are interested in a holy war against the bears on my place.

 

[bigboreblr]

Depends on when I can get to the farm. I always spray Immunox once as it takes care of CAR, as well as Captan every time for additional fungal coverage. For insecticide, I either use Imidan or sometimes Triazicide depending on timing. Imidan is nasty stuff but takes care of PC, even if you're a few days late. I try to spray twice, a couple weeks to a month apart and find I get excellent deer apples with plenty that are good enough for human consumption.

My home site is an old apple orchard. I still have a few mature ones left. Most are around 18ft tall and were unkept for many years. I recently purchased a leaf blower with a sprayer built in from Solo. It can get that height.

Got imidan at home too. Too chicken to use it yet. I puchased a used 3m EZ-flo supplied air respirator with hood. A chemical warfare one, looks like it was only used in drills here n there. Need to wire up the adapter to make it run off of milwaukee 18v batteries. Been using malathion here. I spray the bonide tree spray in the purple bottle and add a little more malathion to it. Been using a spray bottle with 4ft extended wand on the 1 or 2 year old trees.

Just sprayed yesterday about 4 hours before a rain with the bonide/malathion. Starting to see aphids and Japanese Beetle literally came in droves like overnight. Put up beetle traps every 70 yards or so too.

Anybody use a cemical for fireblight? I do need ot look inot antifungals more. MY wife love saturn donut peaches. They get that leaf curl thing I need to spray antifungals for.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

You don't know how right you are. They chew on things and move them around seemingly just for fun. I've had two cameras ripped down and destroyed. Several trees destroyed. They even rip tags off of trees and chew on them and spit them out. A few of my cages were apparently swatted around, damaging the trees in the process. I'm going to see if the guys I hunt deer with up here are interested in a holy war against the bears on my place.

Go get 'em Telemark!!! Seems every bear season, the bears around our camp go underground - even with drives trying to get 'em up & moving. Our camp, and those around us, rarely take bears despite big efforts. And we have plenty of them. Don't know where they go come hunting season ......

You're 100% correct about bears "playing" with things. Young trees, surveyor's tape flagging, poly tarps, buckets, tree tags, cages, porch furniture ........... no end to the list. Bears can be a PITA many times - and cost money & more labor.

 

[b116757]

Go get 'em Telemark!!! Seems every bear season, the bears around our camp go underground - even with drives trying to get 'em up & moving. Our camp, and those around us, rarely take bears despite big efforts. And we have plenty of them. Don't know where they go come hunting season ......

You're 100% correct about bears "playing" with things. Young trees, surveyor's tape flagging, poly tarps, buckets, tree tags, cages, porch furniture ........... no end to the list. Bears can be a PITA many times - and cost money & more labor.

They are just giant trash panda’s

 

[silver_yummies]

My home site is an old apple orchard. I still have a few mature ones left. Most are around 18ft tall and were unkept for many years. I recently purchased a leaf blower with a sprayer built in from Solo. It can get that height.

Got imidan at home too. Too chicken to use it yet. I puchased a used 3m EZ-flo supplied air respirator with hood. A chemical warfare one, looks like it was only used in drills here n there. Need to wire up the adapter to make it run off of milwaukee 18v batteries. Been using malathion here. I spray the bonide tree spray in the purple bottle and add a little more malathion to it. Been using a spray bottle with 4ft extended wand on the 1 or 2 year old trees.

Just sprayed yesterday about 4 hours before a rain with the bonide/malathion. Starting to see aphids and Japanese Beetle literally came in droves like overnight. Put up beetle traps every 70 yards or so too.

Anybody use a cemical for fireblight? I do need ot look inot antifungals more. MY wife love saturn donut peaches. They get that leaf curl thing I need to spray antifungals for.

Here I thought a 3M disposable respirator was good enough for Imidan spraying. Maybe not?!

 

[deepsleep]

Here I thought a 3M disposable respirator was good enough for Imidan spraying. Maybe not?!

Read up on the PPE requirements and you will see it should be treated with great respect. I know some people have gone to Avaunt as a more friendly alternative, although it is labeled as commercial use or farm use only. In my case, they are 99% deer apples, so they don't have to be perfect (or even close).

 

[bigboreblr]

Read up on the PPE requirements and you will see it should be treated with great respect. I know some people have gone to Avaunt as a more friendly alternative, although it is labeled as commercial use or farm use only. In my case, they are 99% deer apples, so they don't have to be perfect (or even close).

I am somehwat new to apples and somehwat not new. I've sprayed bonide stuff for a few years on mature stuff I have used copper spray early season on both apples and cedar trees. The bonide fruit tree mix has several common sprays in there. The main bug one is malathion. NY is as PITA place to get any of the "good stuff" no matter what the subject. PEsticides is no difference. Malathion is easy to get in NY and alot less nasty than imidan. Home depot and lowes sells it t their stores here in NY.

Again, somewhat new to apples trees in depth. 2 weeks ago, a japense beetle here n there. A few days later, they're on everything.... So, I grab my bonide fruit tree spray with malathion and added a bit more malathion to the gallon jug. The next day I don't see any A few days later I see a few. I do not see any dead ones. Put out japanese beetle traps a day after spraying. Between 45 or so trees, mostly young, spread 3 traps. About half a coffee mug of beetles in each trap. Past week see one here n there. The Malathion does great on catepillars. From what I gather, there sn't much residual effect with malathion. Imidan has decent residual. I learned this year beetles are sunny day insects. They need some warmth. Won't find them at dawn or dusk too much.


Also, far as using the army gas mask setup. I am going to be using a backpack sprayer to spray trees. Much more atomization than a spray wand. Wanted added protection there. I may use up the imidan, then go back to malathion.

At home, I spray 2-3 for catepillars ans 1-2 times for japanese beetles. As the broken record I am, the beetles weren't bothering Crossbow.

Japanese beetles come from grubs. Some orchard owners apply insecticide in granular form on the ground. to kill grubs. I am thinking my spot might be too small to prevent beetles by ground application. Guessing most hobby orchardists would be too.

I am thinking malathion for the 1st and 2nd spray, then switch to imidan for the 1st japanese beetle spraying. You still are on the tail end of catepillar issues. This is just the leaves.... The fruit itself, a whole other bunch of pests. Most can be taken care of with malathion.

The 3m mask cartrdges may not be reusable. I use them twice. I wash the mask part after each use. I feel a bit of chemical break through when using malathion. /mouth seems kinda watery. Not sure if my inus are from allergies or the chemical. But once or twice get sinuses a little stuffy afterwards. Think I am using the pink and yellow cartridges.

 

[Teeder]

Poking around my apple plot the other day, I was very impressed with this Candy crab. I grafted it last year onto dolgo rootstock (about 8" off the ground) that i planted the year before. That's a 5 foot cage.

 

[bigboreblr]

What I am reading about Galarina, it might be my pick for one of the "three". Planted three this year as a pruning demonstration. Well pruned, ok pruned, barely to no prune. Then in a few years try to prune a messed up not pruned tree. That 3rd tree might be cut down in 5 years or so.

More I read on Galarina, the more I like. Added bonus it grows big too. Got 2 sundances in the ground, could be a new 3 pick too. Liberty is always a good tree, but I have a NY414-1 in the ground. It is supposed to be a macoun like apple grown from liberty. Far as deer are soncsidered still more or less liberty though. Got 2 empire's this year. Growth has been good on M111. Leaves look good. Bugs haven't been to harsh on it. Probably been sprayed with malathion 3 or 4 times this year, as with every apple tree at home.