Allegheny Chinkapin Radicals Turning Black

[MilkweedManiac]

i Hope everyone is having a tremendous beginning to their holiday season.
The urge struck me to grab a few nuts out of the fridge and stick under some
Lights for fun a little while back.
I put out 5 trays, some chestnut oak, DCO, and ACs.
The CO and DCOs are doing really good, leafing out or on the verge.
However, I’m finding the A-Chinks to be more difficult.

Seed stock is nice and healthy. This is brand new Pro-HP Mix that I actually sifted extra fine to protect radicals from little sticks and such, so no way it could be damping due to fungus or the likes.
But almost all of the radicals shriveled and turned black.
Is this a sign of too much or not enough water?

Sure seems like rot to me, but maybe they need more watering than the others and are drying out?

 

[yoderjac]

Watering is the most difficult thing for chestnuts. I water by weight. Plant the nut in an 18 with your promix. Lift it up and get a feel for the weight with no water added. Consider this as the tank being on empty. Next water the cell until it is totally saturated with water pouring out the bottom holes of the cell. Now pick it up and get a feel for the weight. Consider this as the tank being full. When you water, drench the cell like this and then don't water again until the cell is 1/3 to 1/4 tank. For things in the chestnut family like ACs, always use rain water, not city water. The type of water is not the issue you are having at this stage. My guess is they are staying too damp. As they begin growing they need to acidity to absorb some nutrients. If you start with rain water at planting time, the promix (which is ph balanced to start with) will have the right level of acidity by the time they need it.

I find ACs pretty easy compared to others in the chestnut family because they don't require cold stratification.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MilkweedManiac]

Thanks! I’ll give that technique a try.

 

[MilkweedManiac]

Watering is the most difficult thing for chestnuts. I water by weight. Plant the nut in an 18 with your promix. Lift it up and get a feel for the weight with no water added. Consider this as the tank being on empty. Next water the cell until it is totally saturated with water pouring out the bottom holes of the cell. Now pick it up and get a feel for the weight. Consider this as the tank being full. When you water, drench the cell like this and then don't water again until the cell is 1/3 to 1/4 tank. For things in the chestnut family like ACs, always use rain water, not city water. The type of water is not the issue you are having at this stage. My guess is they are staying too damp. As they begin growing they need to acidity to absorb some nutrients. If you start with rain water at planting time, the promix (which is ph balanced to start with) will have the right level of acidity by the time they need it.

I find ACs pretty easy compared to others in the chestnut family because they don't require cold stratification.

Thanks,

Jack

To clarify, in general how often would you think 18s with Pro Mix should be soaked to retain a healthy moisture? Just a ballpark frequency of your experience so far. They are indoors under led grow lights, 72ish degree room.

Once, twice, a week?

 

[yoderjac]

To clarify, in general how often would you think 18s with Pro Mix should be soaked to retain a healthy moisture? Just a ballpark frequency of your experience so far. They are indoors under led grow lights, 72ish degree room.

Once, twice, a week?

There are too many factors to come up with a schedule. I found that it can vary from a day or so to a week or two depending on conditions. The stage of growth makes a huge difference in the amount of water they use. Chestnuts don't like to have wet feet. I find dousing and then letting them dry out the best method. Other factors like humidity, temperature, and such play a factor. That is why I like to water by weight. If you see the leaves begin to droop, you've waited too long, water them immediately. They will open back up and be fine by the next day. If you leave them in this state too long they will suffer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[MilkweedManiac]

Yeah I kind of thought so. I’ve been watering once about every 6 days because I remembered the danger of water logging chestnuts. The radical grows about an inch but turns black. Maybe saturating them isn’t the best idea at the start and just getting things moist to begin with instead would be better.
Trial and error.

 

[TreeDaddy]

The "watering thing" has proven to be the most difficult aspect of growing chestnuts( all Castenea) in containers in my experience

Further, water requirements are dramatically different in February (lotta rain ,moderate temp) to August( 0 rain,mid 90s temp)

I start my 18s outdoors in feb and transplant to 1gal , three gallon at 3 months interval

Ultimately transplant to field after first frost

i use a combination of Jack's weight method and soil moisture probes

I also close my eyes and feel the leaves like Wayne Pruitt(Wbpdeer)

There is a true art to this and Im still trying to get it right

bill

 

[yoderjac]

Yeah I kind of thought so. I’ve been watering once about every 6 days because I remembered the danger of water logging chestnuts. The radical grows about an inch but turns black. Maybe saturating them isn’t the best idea at the start and just getting things moist to begin with instead would be better.
Trial and error.

That is where I started. The problem is that with a tiny 18 and the well drained mix you need, there is a big difference between what you see on top and what is in the container. If you are just getting started, soil moisture probes like Bill uses are a great idea as they can tell you what is going on below the surface. I ended up with the saturate and weigh method because I was growing a lot of trees and needed something that was fast. Eventually I learned to sample the trees in a try by picking up a few and using those to make the watering decision.

The other thing to consider is that watering will change as trees grow. When you start, there is a lot of air gaps in the promix and water goes right through it and drains out the bottom. As the rootball grows, the roots fill in those air gaps and the trees become harder to top water. You put water in the top of the 18 and it just sites there for a minute before being absorbed. You add more and it sits and is then absorbed. You repeat this process until water is dripping out the bottom.

You can NOT give chestnuts too much water in rootmakers, 18s or otherwise. You can just water too frequently. Saturation ensures they are fully watered. Then they need to dry out for a period. "Wet feet" means sitting in damp soil for a long period. In 18s or other rootmaker containers, they will dry out plenty quickly enough as long as you don't water again until they are ready.

You will get a feel for it in time.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[TreeDaddy]

The fridge in the man cave is full of 5 lbs of chestnut ridge nuts, 90 that i gathered from my orchard, as well as a few bur oaks,and live oak acorns from early producing"young" trees

2020 will be my fifth year at this with techniques i learned from jack and wayne

bill