How to grow dwarf chinkapin oaks (DCOs) from seed - Transferred from QDMA Forums

[yoderjac]

We have successfully grown (germination rate of over 95%) dwarf chinkapin oaks (<i>Quercus prinoides</i> , often abbreviated as DCOs) in Southeast Nebraska (zone 5) over the past few years. The following information is compiled from several threads (&#8216;Our planting tips for DCO lovers&#8217;, &#8216;What is a professional potting mix&#8230;&#8217; &#8216;Blitz DCO acorn quality').
We were asked to post this new thread, so ALL the information is in ONE place. Please let everyone know <u>YOUR</u> progress of growing DCOs from seed, share your knowledge, ask questions, and post lots and lots of pictures on this thread. Thank you.
For those who'd like to get some general info on DCO, please read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quercus_prinoides
Acorn production on 6 year old plant / Otoe County, NE; Sept. 2012
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6 year old DCO ; Otoe County, NE; Sept. 2012
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The picture below was taken by a friend who works for USDA, Ames, Iowa. New flush of growth
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DCO acorns are a little difficult to come by since this oak species is rare. You can buy them at:
-Nurseries (e.g. Lawyer Nursery)
-Seed dealers like Sheffields or Schumacher
-www.ebay.com
-Bob Henrickson from the Nebraska Statewide Arboretum (rhenrickson2@unl.edu); seed source: southeast Nebraska (zone 5)
-Troy Pabst (dconebraska@gmail.com) ; seed source: southeast Nebraska (zone 5) sold them on the qdma forum (user name: &#8216;Blitz&#8217;) in 2012 &amp; 2013. His seed comes from a different location than Bob Henrickson's.

They are slow to establish in the first year (4-6 inch of top growth in the first year). In root control system you might get a 2nd flush, resulting in an 8-12 inch plant. By the end of the 2nd growing season, they <u>really</u> take off.
As said, the first 2 years they grow slowly (compared to other tree forms of oaks). They more or less establish their root system. After that, the plant REALLY takes off. It is very realistic that the plant produces its first acorns in 3-4 years.
Just remember: &quot;The 1st year they sleep, the 2nd year they creep, the 3rd year they leap.&quot;
The plants in the wild (in southeast Nebraska), where we collected acorns from on August 30, 2012, are about 12-15 ft. tall.
Wild DCOs growing along a gravel road in southeast NE. Pic taken in Sept. 2013

<u>Acorns are ripe when:</u>
- the acorn can easily be rolled out of the cap
It is NOT the color that determines if the acorn is ripe, but can it be rolled out of the cap or not.
<u>Prematurely peeling the cap off the acorn can result in:</u>
- damaging the tip of the acorn
- a damaged tip may lead to desiccation of the acorn thus affecting germination
- a damaged tip may lead to pathogens entering the acorn thus affecting germination
Test Floating acorns to see if the nut is filled or weevils are present:
- Fill a bowl with water and dump the acorns in there. Acorns that swim on the top have to be discarded.
This is an interesting article to read: <http://www.ehow.com/how_8629226_preserve-acorns.html

The acorns MUST retain a very high moisture content in the seed. They should be monitored for moisture periodically if grown in pot, in the field, or kept in the refrigerator over the winter.

You HAVE to monitor your acorns' moisture over the winter (no matter if you have them outside in trays or if you field planted them).
If you have a DRY winter, you HAVE to water them occasionally even if they are frozen rock solid in your rootmaker propagation trays (or in the field). BUT don't water when it's 20 below, water when the temps are more moderate.
<u>VERY IMPORTANT:</u> Do NOT use water from a water softener system or distilled water. If you don't want to use your regular tap water, collect rain water.

- Take the caps off, so mold won't grow
- Monitor them so they won't dry out (You can add SLIGHTLY moistened peat moss to the bag. If you don't like to use peat moss, then use a SLIGHTLY moistened paper towel and add it to the acorns in the bag. Once the paper towel has dried, renew it. This way you can <u>easily</u> monitor the moisture content in the bag. Sorry, but I can't tell you the % moisture that should be maintained in the bag. Just check the towel.)
- Keep them in the coolest spot in your fridge (radicle = root will emerge no matter what, do NOT damage the radicle in any way). A 'beer fridge' set at a cooler temperature might be best for storage. The closer you can maintain the temp around 32 F, the better (use a thermometer).
It is VERY important that you monitor moisture over time. If they dry out, they are DONE. Don't think: &quot;Oh they'll be fine in the fridge until spring.&quot; Monitor them!
This is an interesting article to read: <http://www.ehow.com/how_8629226_preserve-acorns.html
We've never stored really big batches of acorns in a ziplock bag; we usually break them up. According to this website you shouldn't store more than 3 cups of acorns in a bag otherwise you might end up with too much moisture in your bag (might trigger mold).
<u>Note:</u> DCO acorns have a high rate of respiration.
Acorns from the white oak group send out a radicle (establishment root) in the fall, even if you store them in the coolest cooler.
Typically, this root does not branch out. It only branches out if you store the acorns in a warm spot. Again: Monitor your temperature!
<u>Please note</u>: Avoid the build-up of ethylene in the fridge. That means store no fruit in the fridge while you have acorns in the fridge. Ethylene affects the growth of the acorns.
<u>Double-bagging???</u>
We don't recommend putting them in 2 zip loc bags. Two bags will interfere with gas exchange still needed by the acorns.

- Plant them sideways, so the point is horizontal (=where the radicle will emerge from, and eventually the shoot). Planting depth: 1/2 - 1 inch deep (rule here= 2X the acorn width)

DCOs grow about 12-15 ft. wide and tall. So if you don't want to overcrowd them, plant them at a spacing of 12-15 ft (acorns or transplanted plants). If you like to end up with a denser spacing, plant them a little closer.

- <u>DCOs are in the white oak group</u> so they send an establishment root called a radicle in the fall
- Once this root is established it needs a cold treatment of at least 3 months (called vernalization, much like winter wheat) of 33-38 F (extreme cold should be avoided)
In nature (in the wild), acorns from the white oak group fall on the ground, germinate, undergo a cold treatment, and flush out in the spring.

So we have to MIMIC NATURE!!!
<u>For BEST results:</u>
- Plant the acorns in the fall, either in the field or in propagation trays
- Put them in a cold spot. Avoid temperature swings!
- Make sure they don't dry out!
<u>Spring planted:</u>
- Plant them in the spring, position them sideways (tip on side, root will split and shoot will emerge from there)
- Planting depth (twice the acorn width, that is 1/2 - 1 inch deep)
We have grown plants this way, too (overwintered acorns in the fridge). However, we believe this kind of treatment sets them back. They don't grow as quickly. They seem to need extra time to get their roots established and to flush out.

 

[yoderjac]

Planting mix for DCOs grown in pots - what pots to use

Our experience is growing DCOs in pots (outdoors) and later planting them out in the field.
<u>Our tips for planting them in pots:</u>
- Use root control pots (we don't want to promote a product, but they produce the BEST root system)
- Do NOT use native soil in pots (this makes adobe in the summer)
- You have to have good drainage in the pots
- Buy a professional potting mix. Check if your local nursery will sell you some. When it comes to potting mix, you get what you pay for. You HAVE to get a GOOD mix. Do NOT get the cheap dark potting mix available everywhere. Do NOT get the mix that contains moisture conserving crystals.
- Do NOT use straight peat moss to grow your DCO acorns or any other plant.
What is a good potting mix?

A good potting mix is:
- fluffy
- holds moisture
- gives plant roots the perfect balance of air, moisture, nutrition, and anchor
Roots need air, as well as water, to grow!
If a potting mix is too dense or too wet:
- plant roots will be stunted or even die
A good potting mix (also called media in the trade) contains high quality ingredients such as:
- sphagnum peat moss
- aged bark
- perlite
- vermiculite
- lime
- a wetting agent (helps soil stay uniformly moist. Do NOT buy mix with moisture retaining crystals.)
A good potting mix:
- drains water in 5-10 seconds
If the soil becomes soupy, or water drips out slowly, you've chosen the wrong soil.
WE like to use the Fafard 51 L mix which is commercially used for growing smaller nursery stock (<http://www.fafard.com/Products/HeavyWeightMixes.aspx
Other mixes that can be used:
The Promix bx or the Fafard 51 will both work well. Personally, Promix bx would be my second choice. We totally understand your point of having a hard time finding professional mixes. So go for it, if this is what you can find.
FYI, Sept. 2013/ NH Mountains said in another thread: I paid anywhere from $29-32 locally per 3.8 cubic foot bale for the Promix BX.
yoderj@cox.net (from Virginia) replied: They want around $50 in my area.
Letemgrow has lots of experience growing plants, he has been very successful using Metro Mix 852 (great, well drained mix)
We realize that it's VERY difficult to get professional potting mixes in a retail store, so the following might be another option:
Another mix that might also work for DCOs is the FaFard 3 B.
Just keep an eye on watering. When you water it will be visual only, that means, when one of your planting containers is dry, the one next to it may or may not be dry. So you'll have to decide by looking at each pot if watering is necessary.
If you&#8217;re using a potting media with a high sphagnum peat moss content and think about increasing its aeration and drainage, then we recommend you to amend it with aged pine bark (not pine bark mulch sold at home improvement stores). (IF you want to mimic Fafard 51, then the % of aged pine bark should be 65%).
Watering the professional potting mix Fafard 52
If Fafard 52 is the only professional potting mix you can get, then GET IT. It's a good mix.
However, this potting mix has to be watered a little less since it contains more peat and less bark than the Fafard 51 and therefore has less drainage. It will stay wet longer. When you water this potting mix, it will turn darker, so don't water it when it still has a dark color.
What is proper watering?
Properly watering plants in containers means adding enough water so the water runs out of the bottom of the pot. Following this method prevents a salt build up in the media which will eventually result in plant death (browning of leaves is a sign of salt build up). It is important to let the media dry out before watering again.
Do NOT use water from a water softener or distilled water!!!!! Collect rain water, if you don't want to use your regular tap water.

NO, you <u>can't</u> add mulch to your potting media (only composted pine bark can be mixed in there. IF you want to mimic Fafard 51, then the % of aged pine bark should be 65%).
Mulch is a substance that is not broken down yet. If you add it, microbes will rob nitrogen, that you want to be available for your seedling or newly planted plant, and use it to degrade the mulch.

Do NOT add Osmocote to the seed media, add the Osmocote once you have transplanted the plants into one gallon pots.

If you want to grow DCO's in pots, this is what you might want to consider:
You can't just grow them in one pot size. You HAVE to use at least 2 sizes if you want to grow them in a pot for 2 yrs.
- Try and get RootMaker (trademark) propagation trays RMII, 18-cell trays
- Start them out in there and grow them until they double flush, i.e., the plants have a height of about 1 ft.
- Then transfer them to 1 gallon Root Maker pots in which you can grow them until you plant them out
<u>Please note: </u>We do NOT want to promote RootMaker products, we just believe they are the best for proper root establishment
This picture was taken by a friend who works for USDA, Ames, Iowa

Start fertilizing with a liquid Miracle Gro when you see top growth (the shoot is coming out). Once you transplant the seedlings to a 1 gallon pot, add Osmocote to the potting mix

It's best to mimic natural growing conditions by giving them a cold treatment. They will grow without a cold treatment but will perform BEST if they do have one.
DCO acorns need to be exposed to a cold treatment of 33-38 F for at least 3 months.
- So storing them in your basement won't work. Even if you think it's cool, it probably is still way too warm.
- You can START you acorns in a warm spot indoors (to get the root established) and after no more than 3 weeks indoors take them to a colder area.

We said earlier that you could start your acorns indoors and then move them outdoors.
<u>Please note:</u> You only want to start them indoors to get the ROOT established. You can CAREFULLY move the media aside, SLIGHTLY move the acorn a little sideways to feel if the root has been established, and then cover the acorn up again.
You do NOT want a shoot to emerge before you move them outdoors. Frost will kill it.

Plants grown indoors need to be gradually exposed to outdoor light conditions/planting sites:
- First 5-6 days: keep them in heavy shade
- Next 5 days: partial shade, IMPORTANT: Protect them from the west sun which is the hottest
- After day 11: full sun

No, we do NOT advise you to amend the soil in the hole where you'll eventually plant your seedlings started in the rootmaker system (otherwise you might end up with a perched water table; see more info below). Just add a top layer of mulch (max. 2 inches).

This should work, too. However, do NOT use cellophane to cover the trays. Use a STANDARD garbage bag (not the coated one, like Steelflex) to put the rootmaker tray in. Put the trays in the coldest spot of your refrigerator AND monitor their moisture during the time they are in the fridge. You should get the root to grow but not the shoot (root establishment = THAT'S what you want in the winter).
Maybe you have a fridge in your garage, one that doesn't get that much traffic (to keep the temp kind of even) and where NO fruit is stored (release of ethylene otherwise).

 

[yoderjac]

YES, you can bury the tray(s) (filled with professional potting media) in your garden. Dig the hole slightly larger than the tray(s), put a layer of hardware cloth on top of the tray(s), if you plant more than one tray, put the trays close together, backfill the surrounding area with mulch as well as on top (no more than 2 inches on top) of the trays. The mulch will not only protect them from extreme temps but will also make it easier to lift the trays in the spring.
Make sure to monitor the moisture in the propagation trays over the winter. = VERY important!!!

When it comes to burying your trays outside, you have to choose a location in your garden that does NOT have HUGE temperature swings. Mulching the trays in will help in maintaining a steady temp.
<u>Please note:</u> You do NOT want to get top growth, which means no shoot should emerge in the winter (winter kill otherwise). You are only OVERWINTERING your acorns there, you do NOT grow them there over the winter. So a sunny spot is NOT necessary. You want a spot where the soil stays frozen once it is frozen.
Put the trays on the north side of your garden, in a shaded area if you have it.
In the spring you move them to a warmer spot and progress using your rootmaker tray system.

Start them in your trays indoors for about 2-3 weeks to get the tap root going (light is NOT an issue at that point in time). Then transfer them to your shed (the Rubbermaid shed should do it), monitor their moisture, protect them from rodents (=VERY IMPORTANT). Your shed should buffer any possible temperature swings. However, if you get a couple weeks of warm weather, move them in the coldest spot you can find.
In the spring, move them outside and progress the seedling establishment in the rootmaker system.

Planting time: in the fall directly in the field, plant them as soon as the weather has cooled down and there's ample soil moisture (the acorn needs to germinate, elongate its radicle and get it established in the soil)
Plant spacing: 12 &#8211; 15 ft.
Planting depth: 1/2 - 1 inch (plant them sideways!!!!, rule= 2x the seed width)
Mulching height (advised in most areas, protection from extreme cold and moisture retention): no more than 2 inches
Watering: Necessary if winter is dry. Monitor!!!!
Do NOT forget rodent protection! This is of UTMOST importance, or all your work was in vain!!!! (read about it further down in the thread.)
<u>Color of acorns to be planted:</u>
IMO, they don't need to be brown to be planted. They just need to be ripe and not dried up. You'll notice anyway that green, ripe acorns will quickly change their color no matter what.

We do NOT advise you to put the potting soil in your field planting holes. If you do this, you might end up with a perched water table, which means that the moisture in the potting soil will act differently than the native soil around it (it's all about soil physics). So it will dry out quicker or slower. which can either lead to the acorns to dry out or rot.
So, focus on planting them correctly in your field. Fill the holes with your field soil, mulch them (needed in colder areas, and won't hurt in more temperate areas), water them in, AND immediately protect them from rodents with the hardware cloth (1/4 inch size).
You can put tree tubes around them in the spring after they start growing. Remove the hardware cloth then, otherwise you'll girdle your seedlings over time.

The question: Pine or cedar mulch to protect DCO acorns?
No, you don't need a specific kind of mulch, i.e., pine or cedar will work. Just make sure, it is NOT double ground, i.e., it must NOT be very fine in texture, but coarse. A fine texture will cause matting making aeration difficult.
Mulch height: no more than 2 inches

You HAVE to protect the acorns from rodents. If you don't, it's not Mother Nature who will take care of them over the winter, but the rodents will :-).
So we recommend you to get hardware cloth (¼ x ¼ inch), cut 6 X 6 inch pieces, and lay them on TOP of your mulched 'burial sites' (mulch height: no more than 2 inches); fasten the pieces in the ground with landscape anchor pins so rodents can't go underneath them.
Do NOT bury the wire pieces UNDER the mulch, your seedling might get girdled (because of the dense meshing, only 1/4 X 1/4 in.) and die off, or YOU might damage the emerging seedling when you try to remove the wire later in the spring.
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It's NOT a cure all (i.e.,not a guarantee): However, it helps if you remove the nut once the plant is established. There's a little less of a temptation for the critters to dig up the plants. Just carefully pull or cut (whatever works without damaging the plant) the nut off before you plant it in its final spot.
This method is done a lot with hazelnuts in commercial and research orchards.

You HAVE to monitor your acorns' moisture over the winter!
If you have a DRY winter, you HAVE to water them occasionally even if they are frozen rock solid in your trays (or in the field). BUT don't water when it's 20 below, water when the temps are more moderate.

All pics were taken 14 Oct. 2012; Otoe County, NE
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So I've got my hardware cloth cut into squares, small wire stakes, marking flags, mulch, cold acorns and 3 little boys anxious to get going and plant some in the ground the rest of this week and weekend (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) I'll try to remember to take some pictures along the way.
In late winter we will start the rest in the rootmakers, plant some during the Spring, and keep some at home growing until the Fall to plant. Hopefully between the 3 methods, we will find some success.
Thanks again for all of the information and help along the way, I'm sure there are many here that appreciate it greatly! (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) And I'm sure we will have more questions along the way...

Good Luck.

Spiider / Steve,
You are welcome.
YES, PLEASE post some pics on this thread, especially of your boys getting involved in your planting endeavor. Maybe you could also get some close-ups of the hardware cloth and how you pinned it down.
All your preparations are done, so you are ready to roll... GOOD LUCK from both of us.
We are looking forward to seeing your pics soon.
Troy and Sabine

Spiider 3 little boys and a bunch of oak seedlings. What a blessing. I got one son, plum grown and one little grandson about 5. He is a dandy though. He will be learning soon. &quot;D&quot;

 

[yoderjac]

So we planted 25 DCO's this afternoon. Here is how it went;
-Started by cleaning off the spot we wanted of weeds &amp; any rocks
-Broke up the ground just a little bit
-Planted the DCO's on their sides about 1-2x their width
-Put a big handful (or 3 little handfuls) of the mulch directly over the seed site
-Put the cut out wire mesh over the wood chips
-Used 4 Landscape Anchor Pins on each of the corners
-Marked with a landscape flag right in with the mesh
-Watered them all in
Next Steps
-Put a bucket over top of each planting and spray around them with Gly at 2-4oz/gallon for weed control.
Notes
-For the mesh, I was leary that 6x6&quot; squares would be too small since I had pine bark chips so I made mine 8x10&quot;. And I could still have easily used the 6x6&quot;, just FYI.
-For the Anchor Pins I ended up moving them closer to where the mulch chips ended and it seemed a little more secure.

Here is the rest of the pics...

Looks like a great time. Is that mesh to fine for the tree to poke thru? Is your mulch on top of the mesh?

The mesh is the hardware cloth with 1/4&quot; squares. My impression is that I'm not trying to get the Oak to grow right now, but to get the root established over the winter, then when Spring comes, I'll removed the mesh, then the mulch and then protect with a tree tube. The mesh protects from rodents.
The picture in step 4 is showing the ground that I worked up. The mesh with the mulch and flag on it was just how I staged each location so I didn't have to keep going back and forth. I actually put the acorn, stakes (4), mulch and flag on each of them. Then I only had to make one trip to each planting site.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blitz
You HAVE to protect the acorns from rodents. If you don't, it's not Mother Nature who will take care of them over the winter, but the rodents will :-).
So we advise you to get the hardware cloth (¼ x ¼ inch), cut 6 X 6 inch pieces, and lay them on TOP of your mulched 'burial sites' (mulch height: no more than 2 inches).
Do NOT bury the wire pieces UNDER the mulch, your seedlings might get girdled (because of the dense meshing, only 1/4 X 1/4 in.) and die off, or YOU might damage the seedling when you try to remove the wire at a later stage.
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Spiider/Steve,
Thanks for sharing your pics with us!!!!! We think you and your 3 elves/helpers had a LOT of fun that day (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) What a great memory to make!
That's exactly how we would have done the field planting, too. Rodent protection is of utmost importance, and chicken wire would not have helped a bit. Those nasty critters would find their way through chicken wire immediately. We think using hardware cloth is a cheap way of protecting your valuable seeds.
Just keep monitoring your field planting over the winter (moisture, rodents).
It would be neat to see a pic of an emerging seedling sometime in the spring. Maybe you could post it on this thread? That would be great!
Best of luck to YOU and your 3 boys (and your wife who stayed in the house?(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) )

Spiider/Steve,
Sorry, but Troy looked at your pics tonight and asks you to consider getting some different mulch. In his opinion, the pine nuggets are way too big. The seedling will have a hard time pushing trough in the spring, and this type of mulch doesn't give you the moisture retention and protection (from cold weather).
So maybe you could go to a home improvement store and get some regular mulch. You could use your pine nuggets around your house so it wouldn't be a waste of money.
Sorry, if we caused any confusion, an extra trip to the store, and more work in the field.

 

[yoderjac]

Spider,
One on the best ways to keep rodents away is clearing out the thatch to a 4' circle. Rodents do not like crossing when they r exposed.
Like this, I lose zero seeds to rodents with this system. These are fall planted acorns which is my preferred way.
DCO from seed the first growing season.

That's no problem, I was thinking it would be easier for me to remove the bigger pieces in the Spring when I remove the mesh and put the tubes in place. With the idea that I'd be removing them before they grow upwards. But if I'm going to leave the mulch in place for the most part then that's another story. So I'll play it safe and switch over.
I will also be going around and covering these sites with a bucket yet this fall and spray for weeds around each of them. I'll do the same in the Spring when the new weeds come in.
Thanks again for all the input everyone, I really appreciate all of it!
Oh, my wife wasn't with us that day, she was running in her 6th full marathon!

So what do you do when your DCO's put on top growth before you move them into cold storage??? I planted less than 3 weeks ago and this morning I checked on them and 3/6 have top growth now. I've read it'll kill the tops if I go to cold storage now so I'll just go without. Do I move the other 3 right now to cold storage? Opinions needed.

Gator,
I'd move the ones that haven't sprouted into cold storage asap. The others, keep them as cool as you can. What zone are you in? How cold does it get in your area in the winter? Can you find a spot where it doesn't get below 32 F outside?

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Blitz
Gator,
I'd move the ones that haven't sprouted into cold storage asap. The others, keep them as cool as you can. What zone are you in? How cold does it get in your area in the winter? Can you find a spot where it doesn't get below 32 F outside?
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Zone 7 but no way there's any spot outside that won't freeze. I did move the ones I could to cold storage. Guess I'll have a good comparison (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
For what it's worth, they were planted less than two weeks ago so they shot up top growth pretty quickly.

Gator and ALL you other guys on the East Coast,
Stay safe during Hurricane Sandy! Our thoughts are with you!!!!

A few photo's of my DCO fall planting: My DCO grave.

Filled with germinated seed.

Mulched.

Hardware cloth installed.

My cold storage room.

Germinated seed in cold storage.

I still have about 100 growing in the greenhouse, I'll probably put some in cold storage and bring some inside in the sunroom for the winter. I ended up planting in a mix of Promix BX with pine bark fines. Also managed to get a bag of Promix BRK with fungicide. Also planted some in Jiffy forestry pellets. We'll see what works best. As I type this, Sandy is howling outside. Amazingly, still have not lost power.

Wont those DCO's grow through the bottom of the rootmakers with that setup Grape??
Be curious to see how they look next spring when you dig them out...may work great. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Grapevine,
GREAT to see that you are trying different methods and don't put all your eggs in <u>one</u> basket; this way you can see what works best for you.
Just keep an eye on the moisture for all approaches. As letemegrow noted, if you leave them in the 'grave' too long in the spring, the taproot might grow out of the rootmakers. Just monitor them.

They will be pulled in early March or as soon as the ground thaws and placed in a heated greenhouse. Doubt there will be much taproot then. As Blitz said, this is an acorn storage method, not a seedling storage method.

Grapevine,
Keep us posted on your progress. We're looking forward to seeing more pics of your different growing methods in the spring. Hope you made it through hurricane Sandy without any damage to your property.

I'm curious if any of you who have grown DCOs for a few years have experienced any suckering on your plants. We don't see this on our plants. However, I saw lots of native DCOs in southeast NE today that have suckered profusely (lots of very heavy limestone in this site).

What are those white things poking out of these acorns you sent me????
j/k(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

I was a little too late to get any acorns from Blitz, so I ordered some from Sheffields(Last time that will happen). All the acorns had sprouted, but the radicle had turned black. Will these still be viable?

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tripps
I was a little too late to get any acorns from Blitz, so I ordered some from Sheffields(Last time that will happen). All the acorns had sprouted, but the radicle had turned black. Will these still be viable?
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I noticed the same thing from Sheffield's. Black tap root is not a good thing. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Quote:
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Originally Posted by letemgrow
I noticed the same thing from Sheffield's. Black tap root is not a good thing. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
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Didn't think it would be. Ordered 5 different things from them, was dissapointed with them all. Oh well, lesson learned.

Tripps,
Do you still have those acorns with the black radicles? If so, cut one open; if it's black all the way through, it's dead.
Maybe you can call them up and ask for a refund?

Yes, I put everything in the fridge when I got them a few weeks ago. I'll try cutting one open and see what it looks like. Thanks

Quote:
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Originally Posted by Thayer.qdma
What are those white things poking out of these acorns you sent me????
j/k(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
==================================
I guess my next step is to get these acorns into the root maker trays and leave them in the fridge. We have germination.
Sorry if anybody took my previous post the wrong way...I was trying to show that Troy sent some good acorns.

 

[yoderjac]

Ooooooh Thayer,
You got my wife in a tizzy (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) . SHE did all the floating and was worried you might have ended up with weevil larvae despite her testing. Glad to hear it was just the radicles (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) . Happy planting!

I thought I would stick this thread to the top for a while...
I just put in 24 DCO's in a RM tray into the fridge. The radicles were sprouting and they were planted in some 52 mix. I put the tray into a paper bag and placed them in the fridge.
Secondly, I put another 24 DCO's in a RM tray and left them on the plant stand in the basement. Similar radicle rooting, but these will be left in a 65f +-3f for a awhile.
These were all from Blitz and I am going to see if more stratification or that other term of keeping them cold during rooting, helps to generate a better tree versus the ones in a 65f environment after the radicle production.

I'll be starting some of my DCO's in the rootmaker cells this month. Been busy hunting until now. I got a deer early in bow season and spent the rest of the time getting my 6 and 8 (on his 8th Birthday!) year old boys their first deer! My wife got her 2nd deer this year too. We are now set for the year with venison and my mind is shifting directly back towards habitat (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Thayer,
GOOD LUCK!!!! Keep us posted what worked best for you.
Happy New Year to EVERYONE on the forum!!!! Best of luck to you in 2013!

Would it be a silly question to ask how hard are these to find right now?

bwool,
I think you're out of luck finding these acorns right now. First at all, there's quite a demand for DCO acorns, and they are a little harder to come by. And then, no matter what, they will have started to germinate by now, so shipping them with the emerged radicle is quite risky. It could easily break off or be damaged when exposed to freezing temps during shipment.
Check back in late August, early September.

Do DCO's need to have aluminum screen put around the trunk to protect from rabbits/mice?

Gator,
We recommend protecting your seedlings with a cage made out of hardware cloth, fine meshed chicken wire, or tree tubes; a material rabbits won't be able to chew up.
Letemgrow has had a lot of success growing them in tree tubes. Check out his tips and pics on this thread.
Whatever method you choose, it's important that you keep the immediate area around the trunk clean. If mice can get in, they like to build nests in the cages or tree tubes.

Min. number of DCOs to plant in a group/cluster to achieve good pollination/acorn production:
In another thread, Gator said 10 DCO's, and we believe that's a realistic number.
To get proper pollination/acorn production, please know that it is of UTMOST importance that you have genetic diversity in your planting. That means not all plants should come from the same mother plant.
DCOs are wind pollinated, so don't plant them extremely far from one another. We said 12-15 ft. in this thread; 10 ft. will do it, too.
If you're interested in propagating DCO's from seed at some later point in time (like others on the forum do), it makes sense not to just use your own crop but to buy in some acorns from other locations to mix up the gene pool.

Oaks easily hybridize within their own group (i.e., white with other whites, reds with reds). That's the 'joy' (or 'curse') of planting oaks.
Let's say you have a huge standard chinkapin oak planted in the vicinity of your DCOs, there's a good chance that pollen of this species could get widely spread and blown on your DCOs (which might have flowers receptive for pollen at the same time as your standard) which are much lower in height. So if you think about propagating these DCOs from seed later on in time, you might actually end up growing hybrids.

i planted about 300 DCO acorns this fall. 200 are in the woods under 1/4&quot; hardware mesh as per directions from this post and others. i had 100 left over so i put them in planters inside my garage. i watered them when they looked dry but otherwise didn't pay much attention.
last week i brought a few of the planters inside, put them under a light and figured they would warm up and sprout.
after a week i went digging to see what the acorns and radicals (some of which sprouted prior to planting) looked like.
and i found nothing! a few empty acorn shells on the garage floor might have clued me in, but i thought they were just a few stragglers that got picked off.
turns out the mice like those DCO's. squirrels can't get into my garage, but i think i fed 10 generations of mice this fall/winter. i hope the acorns in the woods have fared better!!!

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
you might actually end up growing hybrids.
==================================
I am hoping that is the case for me.
Be nice to have a dwarf chinkapin crossed with say a swamp white oak. You ever tried grafting dwarf chinkapins to say a regular white oak, or bur oak rootstock?

letemgrow,
YES, it would be interesting to see a hybridization of swamp whites and DCOs. Do you have any swamp whites growing close to your DCO's?
NO, I haven't done any grafting with DCO's. Whip-and-tongue would be the graft to use. Are YOU going to give it a try sometime soon, and if so, keep us posted?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by NE PA QDM
i planted about 300 DCO acorns this fall. 200 are in the woods under 1/4&quot; hardware mesh as per directions from this post and others. i had 100 left over so i put them in planters inside my garage. i watered them when they looked dry but otherwise didn't pay much attention.
last week i brought a few of the planters inside, put them under a light and figured they would warm up and sprout.
after a week i went digging to see what the acorns and radicals (some of which sprouted prior to planting) looked like.
and i found nothing! a few empty acorn shells on the garage floor might have clued me in, but i thought they were just a few stragglers that got picked off.
turns out the mice like those DCO's. squirrels can't get into my garage, but i think i fed 10 generations of mice this fall/winter. i hope the acorns in the woods have fared better!!!
==================================
NE PA QDM,
Sorry to hear about your loss (of acorns). YES, mice, voles, rabbits, squirrels, you name it, they ALL LOVE DCOs. I guess you had some happy FAT mice in your garage this winter (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I really hope they didn't get into your acorn plantings in the woods. Keep us posted.

the acorns in the woods are covered with 1/4&quot; hardware cloth so i think they're safe.
which makes me wonder.....when do i remove the hardware cloth? right after the acorns start to sprout vertically?
also, how high up the base of a new plant do i need to cover with window screen if using a tree tube? i have 5' treepro tubes but still planned on covering the bases with protection against smaller rodents. any recommendations?

 

[yoderjac]

NE PA QDM,
I'd remove the hardware cloth as soon as I see the sprout emerging from the ground. If you wait too long and the seedling leaves fully extend, you'll tear them off when you remove the hardware cloth.
However, I'd immediately protect the seedling with your grow tubes, since DCOs are rabbit candy, as mentioned by other forum members. Do NOT leave them unprotected.
If I were you, I'd monitor the mouse population in your area on a regular basis. If you start seeding nests in your tree tubes, then I'd cover them with window screen (covering all holes since mice are good climbers).
It's not only additional work but also additional expenses to drape the tubes with window screen. I think money is better spent on keeping the area around the seedlings as weed free as possible. Letemgrow stated that he treats a big area around his DCO's with gly to keep it as bare as possible. Mice and other rodents don't like to cross bare areas since they fear predation.

DCO's prefer full sun. They grow fine in partial shade, too. Some of the plants we collected acorns from in the wild last year are understory plants. However, DCO's planted in partial shade produce less acorns.

This past fall I planted a couple of R/M trays of SWO, DCO and Chinkquipin, with the intention of putting them in my shed once the the root sprouted. Something got them in my shed. All of the nut remains on top of the soil are gone. I fished around a few of them and there is still a root in the ground. Will these come back? Anyone have any experience with this? I just trying to figure out if I should start over or if the root is enough for the growth to continue

Bad LT,
Sorry to hear about your dilemma. If you have no shoot or seed (= energy storage for the seedling) left, most likely the seedling won't make it. If it did, it would be severely stunted. So my advice: Start over again.

Blitz,
This past weekend I dug up a couple of the acorns I planted last fall that I bought from you and Sabine. The root shoots were 3-4&quot; long already. I only dug up one hill and both acorns looked like that. I am going to transplant them this weekend. A soft loving touch will be used to keep them alive.
I will take pics of some of them and post them here.
Thanks again.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm going to be planting the majority of mine that I've had being chilled over winter, in the next 2-3 weeks! I tried to get some started in RM cells this winter but none of them took off. I haven't check on the ones I planted last fall.
I plan on putting tree tubes around them for protection. Hopefully I'll get a few to grow. I had wondered if I should put some lumite or black plastic down with them as well to keep moisture and prevent weeds. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

So far none of my DCO have waken up yet in the root maker they have over wintered in. Some apple seeds I threw in have. What soil temp do the DCO's need to sprout?

I tried growing some 2 ways over the winter. 1st was to try them in rootmakers in my house under lights. Didn't work. 2nd was to bury some under landscape cloth and wood chips. None of those have done anything either (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) I'm about to try directly planting the rest that I have in tree tubes and see if that works. Let me know if anyone else has found something that works.

I tried direct seeding in tubes a couple of years ago in the spring went 0/15

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by E_308
So far none of my DCO have waken up yet in the root maker they have over wintered in. Some apple seeds I threw in have. What soil temp do the DCO's need to sprout?
==================================
I'm sorry but I don't know what soil temps DCO's need to sprout (I've never done any of these experiments). However, I don't believe it has been <u>consistently</u> warm enough yet to raise soil temps. All I can tell you is: Be a little patient. I'm growing Sauls hybrids right now, and it has taken them 3 1/2 - 4 weeks to germinate. And that's in the greenhouse where the average low is 65 F.

it's my first year trying to grow DCO's from acorns. i planted a bunch outside under hardware cloth and had been watching them regularly, but a watched pot won't boil i guess. and 100% the acorns i put in planters in my garage got discovered by the mice. so i thought my rocky start was going to end in complete failure, but just when i almost lost hope my DCO's have finally warmed up enough to sprout (zone 5b). most of the seedlings are still very small around 3-5&quot; tall, i think they just broke through in the last week. i tried transplanting a few today but found that i broke a few of the taproots in the process of trying to dig them out of the ground where i planted them. i put them in a few rows close together under a 3' wide 1/4&quot; hardware cloth.
anyone have advice on the ideal size these seedlings should be before i try to dig them up and transplant them to their final destination? i'd like to get them tubed as soon as possible but i don't want to kill them in the process.
also, how long after they sprout and grow leaves do they continue to need energy from the acorn? in other words, is it OK if the acorn detaches from the taproot and seedling during transplanting? and finally, is it likely that the seedlings i planted today with broken taproots might survive?
as always, any input is appreciated.

Here is how my DCO story goes. I bought 30 seedlings that were probably 6-8 weeks old when I got them. They are/were growing in a 32 cell root maker tray. Transplanted 3 a couple weeks after I got them. Lost all the soil off the tap root in the process. One of the three got clipped below the soil surface by a white grub. The other 2 were doing fine until last week when in a matter of days the leaves curled and turned brown, I had been watering them occasionally, but we had some very warm and very windy weather last week. Not sure if it was the weather or something else that did them in. I transplanted another 3 or 4 a couple weeks after that in a more remote location and as of last week they were still doing fine. I transplanted one into my &quot;gravel bed/ sand box&quot; experiment a couple of weeks ago and it is still looking good. Those in the tray are still doing well, though I had the wind strip the leaves off of 3 of them last week before I could get them moved out of the really strong wind. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) They may still make it as they have buds lower on the stems yet.
Chris

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by NE PA QDM
it's my first year trying to grow DCO's from acorns. i planted a bunch outside under hardware cloth and had been watching them regularly, but a watched pot won't boil i guess. and 100% the acorns i put in planters in my garage got discovered by the mice. so i thought my rocky start was going to end in complete failure, but just when i almost lost hope my DCO's have finally warmed up enough to sprout (zone 5b). most of the seedlings are still very small around 3-5&quot; tall, i think they just broke through in the last week. i tried transplanting a few today but found that i broke a few of the taproots in the process of trying to dig them out of the ground where i planted them. i put them in a few rows close together under a 3' wide 1/4&quot; hardware cloth.
anyone have advice on the ideal size these seedlings should be before i try to dig them up and transplant them to their final destination? i'd like to get them tubed as soon as possible but i don't want to kill them in the process.
also, how long after they sprout and grow leaves do they continue to need energy from the acorn? in other words, is it OK if the acorn detaches from the taproot and seedling during transplanting? and finally, is it likely that the seedlings i planted today with broken taproots might survive?
as always, any input is appreciated.
==================================
If can, leave the acorn on (although attractive to mice), since the plant still derives some energy from the seed.
It's best to plant the acorns in their final destination before they develop any top growth. I can't tell you for sure, if your damaged plants might survive. It all depends how damaged the root system was and if any side root branching had occurred.
<u>DCO's follow this rule:</u>
The first year, they sleep.
The second year, they creep.
The third year, they leap.
This rule shows you how important root establishment is for them.
I came upon a nice saying by Ralph Waldo Emerson the other day which is applicable here:
&quot;Adopt the pace of nature, patience is her secret.&quot;

Sorry for the long time between post on the offer of pics of my dug up dco's I planted last fall (got them from Blitz)and then transplanted about 20 of them April 1st. (they are on a standard 5 gallon bucket)
They are just starting to push through the ground where I can for sure identify them and now I am tubing them. I was fortunate that the critters seemed to miss their planting spots.
Thanks Blitz for a quality product.

I just finished checking/tubing 50 hills of dco's I planted last fall and so far 39 have oaks out of the soil.

 

[yoderjac]

The dwarf chinkapin oak brings a bit of the wilderness to your backyard without scaring the neighbors or shading your vegetables. This small native tree is adaptable—it can handle high wind, dry sites, and poor, thin, or rocky soil—and decorative. Green-yellow catkins appear in spring, thick green leaves in summer, and bronze to red-orange leaves in fall. Wild critters love the rich brown acorns. Because of its rugged temperament, good looks, and compact size, the Nebraska Statewide Arboretum named dwarf chinkapin oak to its annual GreatPlants list this year.
signage
Hoarding In U.P

I might jinx myself by saying this but the DCOs I have seem to be fighters if they get their initial 3 or 4 leaves established. The ones that got their leaves removed by the strong winds have already established new leaves. One of the two that's leaves turned brown and fell off now appears to be establishing new leaf buds! Even the couple that were runts/ leaf deformity issues in the root maker tray won't give up, even though they are struggling to stay alive. One ungerminated acorn still in the tray that is exposed to sunlight has a green color (not moldy). It seems to be rooted when I try to pick it up, but has never sent up a shoot of any kind! I won't be surprised if it does eventually send up a shoot!
Chris

I just bought some white oak acorns and should receive them next week.
This is a great thread, but I'm a little confused about the order in which to do everything.
I live in Central Florida but plan to plant them on my hilly 80 acre piece in NE Tennessee in October.
As I understand it, the process should go something like this:
1) Boil water and remove the pot from heat, then put the acorns in the pot to soak for 24 hour. (Scarification)
2) Put the acorns in a zip loc bag with potting medium
3) Allow the acorns and potting medium to sit in the refrigerator for 60 days (stratification?)
4) Plant them in their permanent home in October. This is usually well before the first freeze in TN with daytime temps in the 60's and 70's and nightime in the 40's.
Questions:
1) I have a freezer (not refrigerator) in the garage with plenty of room for the zip loc bags. Will the acorns in zip locs and planting medium tolerate freezing temperatures of 26-28 deg. for 60 days, or do I need to make room in the refrigerator?
2) One thread mentioned hardware cloth to keep the rodents away. I used tubes of aluminum window screen for my apple trees which, so far, have worked very well. Is there a reason this wouldn't work for the oaks, or do I have the concept all wrong? I don't live near the property, so any solution will have to be self-maintaining.
3) If I have a delay in planting, and have to move the sprouted acorns to pots here in Florida, when should I do this and how? Our fall temps here in FL are are on the warm side and can get into the lower 80's during the day.
4) The spacing for the dwarf oaks is 12-15'. My seeds are full size white oaks. What spacing should I plan for them?
5) Related to #4, should I plant the seedlings closer together and thin them as they get bigger.
Thanks for the help.
6) I just read on the USDA web site that cold stratification isn't &quot;required&quot; for Quercus alba. I presume this means that they will germinate without it, but germination rates will be better with stratification?
Thanks.

Is it too early to get on the list for DCO acorns?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by bwool
Is it too early to get on the list for DCO acorns?
==================================
So far the acorn crop on our DCO's looks pretty good; nice set on the plants. We've been blessed and not been hit with hail this season.
Provided Mother Nature won't damage our acorns (or those growing in the wild) in the next few weeks, we'll sell them again on the qdma forum. This will probably be around the beginning of September.
We don't plan to make a list, just contact us at the beginning of September.

Is September the time of year they generally drop? How long does the drop last? Does it make it till October?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
So far the acorn crop on our DCO's looks pretty good; nice set on the plants. We've been blessed and not been hit with hail this season.
Provided Mother Nature won't damage our acorns (or those growing in the wild) in the next few weeks, we'll sell them again on the qdma forum. This will probably be around the beginning of September.
We don't plan to make a list, just contact us at the beginning of September.
==================================
Question: In what climate zones do the DCO's do well.
Thanks.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by phopkinsiii
Question: In what climate zones do the DCO's do well.
Thanks.
==================================
From Alabama to Onatrio...
I'd get remnant acorns/seedlings from a source as close to your area as possible.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by letemgrow
From Alabama to Onatrio...
I'd get remnant acorns/seedlings from a source as close to your area as possible.
==================================
I'll be planting these in Tennessee. Any suggestions on sources?
Thanks.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by phopkinsiii
I'll be planting these in Tennessee. Any suggestions on sources?
Thanks.
==================================
Advantage Forestry used to sell acorns and seedlings. They r out of Alabama.
I'd also check with a state forester or conservation department. They can have some great knowledge on local sources. Asked some myself in MO and found 3 areas with remnant populations to collect from in MO.

 

[yoderjac]

Check with the starter of this thread as well.

Question asked by strawhead on another thread:
I looked thru your thread and didn't see how far north your dco's will grow. Sorry if I missed it. We are in zone 3b, nw Wi. Will a dco grow in this climate? Thank you for all your insight.
Strawhead,
According to the USDA plant data base you should be able to grow them in zone 3b.
However, I believe you're really pushing it and you'll have marginal success getting them established there. Winter kill is probably going to be your problem. I mean, where do you even find a protected site in this climate? You could try and plant them on an experimental basis only (and eventually let everyone on the forum know of your success).
BUT let me point out that there's a nursery in North Dakota, Lincoln-Oakes Nursery, (Bismarck, ND) that has had some success growing DCOs. So if I were you, I'd contact them and see what they are saying tel. (701) 223-8575. (As far as I know, their seed source is actually from SE Nebraska - zone 5 -, but please check with them.)

letemgrow replied:
Some place in Ontario grows them too I think.
NH Mountains replied:
I've got 4 that have survived 3B winters since 2009. They are about 3-4' the last I checked. The rest I planted were dug up by bear because I didn't remove the nuts when I planted them. They'd be a little taller if they hadn't been eaten back the first year. Cages got knocked over. No nuts yet. Mine came as seedlings from Morse.

I have been trying to find a source for either the Fafard or the Pro-MIx BX and have not been successful. I found the ProMix in Greenhouse Megastore, but they want $150 to ship ONE 3.8cf bag. Is that for real? I called their customer support and they confirmed that price. Does anybody else have a source in SC area?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Jack Terpack
I have been trying to find a source for either the Fafard or the Pro-MIx BX and have not been successful. I found the ProMix in Greenhouse Megastore, but they want $150 to ship ONE 3.8cf bag. Is that for real? I called their customer support and they confirmed that price. Does anybody else have a source in SC area?
==================================
Do you have any Agways near you? Any greenhouse or nursery should also be able to order the promix bx. I think I paid $30 or less for the 3.8cf bag of it. Used quite a few bags this year though. I would not mail order it. Most greenhouses will use it for planting their plants and should have something they would sell you.

Parker 35 asked on another thread:
This will be my first attempt at growing from seed and I'm looking forward to it. My plan is to direct seed at least half of them.
I am planning in caging them but i do have a question about that. How many years do you protect these dco's from deer browsing?
Chad,
I'd say you have to protect them from deer browsing for at least 3-4 years if not even longer depending on your deer pressure.
I'm sure some other guys who grow plants to improve deer habitat on their property can chime in on this issue. Sorry, but I'm not the deer expert.

NH Mountains replied in another thread:
If you direct seed you're going to have to protect them with tubes or mice and squirrels will find a high percentage of them. You should be fine tubed unless you have bear that haven't hibernated. If they find the nuts in one tube they are smart enough to look in other tubes for them. They will destroy them.
I ground quite a few stumps on my property this year. I think the bear thought another bear ripped them up looking for ants/grubs. They hit more stumps on my property this year than the previous years combined. They learn as they go so if you don't direct seed and plant seedlings keep them at home long enough to grow roots that you can remove the nut. Otherwise they will destroy more than one looking for nuts.
That's what happened with my original plantings. They followed my scent trail and dug them up one by one. Eating the nut and leaving the seedling on top the ground with roots exposed. All but a few perished.

NH Mountains replied on another thread:
To be honest I have not direct seeded any nuts because of the big black furry friends on my property. I dont want them looking in my tubes for nuts.
If I were to plant I'd do them now if they're dropping in your area. That's what Mother Nature does.
I've read lots of posts though where people have direct seeded in the fall without tubes and had lost nearly every nut to critters come the next spring.
I have not lost any nut plants to critters (oaks and chestnuts) since I started growing them at home. Let them develop enough roots to cut the nut off and then move outside or plant in the field with protection. Rootmakers are definitely worth it for me.

Strawhead asked:
I looked thru your thread and didn't see how far north your dco's will grow. Sorry if I missed it. We are in zone 3b, nw Wi. Will a dco grow in this climate? Thank you for all your insight.
Reply by Blitz:
According to the USDA plant data base you should be able to grow them in zone 3b.
However, I believe you're really pushing it and you'll have marginal success getting them established there. Winter kill is probably going to be your problem. I mean, where do you even find a protected site in this climate? You could try and plant them on an experimental basis only (and eventually let everyone on the forum know of your success).
BUT let me point out that there's a nursery in North Dakota, Lincoln-Oakes Nursery, (Bismarck, ND) that has had some success growing DCOs. So if I were you, I'd contact them and see what they are saying tel. (701) 223-8575.
Letemgrow replied:
Some place in Ontario grows them too I think
NH Mountains replied:
I've got 4 that have survived 3B winters since 2009. They are about 3-4' the last I checked. The rest I planted were dug up by bear because I didn't remove the nuts when I planted them. They'd be a little taller if they hadn't been eaten back the first year. Cages got knocked over. No nuts yet. Mine came as seedlings from Morse.
Here's my take on whether they will survive in colder climates. I think they can if they can get established. They will grow at a slower rate. When they do reach bearing age, they may not produce every year due to later snow and frosts.

&quot;The 1st year they sleep, the 2nd year they creep, the 3rd year they leap.&quot;
Start fertilizing after the 1st year. At this time you want to promote root growth, so use a fertilizer higher in phosphorus (= promotes roots growth).
Do NOT fertilize too late in the season. Examples: In Michigan no later than the 1st part of June, in SC no later than mid to late July.

I just received my shipment of DCO acorns; thanks Troy and Sabine!
I'm a little confused about how to prepare them for planting. I've read that the white oak group has no dormancy period. Does that mean that it's unecessary to scarify or stratify them? It seems that I've read on this thread a recommendation that you give the acorns a cold period of 40-60 days. For me, that means in the fridge.
As I understand it, I should
1) Do the float test and discard the floaters
2) Scarify the seeds by placing them in hot water (how long?)
3) Place them in potting medium in a zip loc bag in the fridge for 40-60 days
4) Plant them with the tip facing sideways in rootmaker cells
5) Transfer them to 1 gallon rootmaker pots when the seedlings are about 1 foot high.
Thanks for the help.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by phopkinsiii
I just received my shipment of DCO acorns; thanks Troy and Sabine!
I'm a little confused about how to prepare them for planting. I've read that the white oak group has no dormancy period. Does that mean that it's unecessary to scarify or stratify them? It seems that I've read on this thread a recommendation that you give the acorns a cold period of 40-60 days. For me, that means in the fridge.
As I understand it, I should
1) Do the float test and discard the floaters
2) Scarify the seeds by placing them in hot water (how long?)
3) Place them in potting medium in a zip loc bag in the fridge for 40-60 days
4) Plant them with the tip facing sideways in rootmaker cells
5) Transfer them to 1 gallon rootmaker pots when the seedlings are about 1 foot high.
Thanks for the help.
==================================
YES, the white oak group has no dormancy period. In nature (in the wild), acorns from the white oak group fall on the ground in the fall, germinate, undergo a cold treatment, and flush out in the spring.
DCOs are in the white oak group so they send out an establishment root called a radicle in the fall. Once this root is established it needs a cold treatment of at least 3 months (called vernalization, much like winter wheat) of 33-38 F (extreme cold should be avoided).
Scarification or stratification is NOT applicable here.
<u>If you collect your own DCO seeds, then you:</u>
- Remove the cap
- Test float them and discard the floaters
- Do NOT put them in hot water (this will KILL the acorn)
- Put them with damp peat moss or a damp paper towel in a zip lock bag in the fridge until you are ready to plant them. Again: Monitor the moisture in the bag over time!
- Plant them sideways in rootmaker trays or in the field (read notes about planting in rootmakers or in the field at the beginning of the thread and how to proceed if either method is used.)

NH Mountains replied:
I've got 4 that have survived 3B winters since 2009. They are about 3-4' the last I checked. The rest I planted were dug up by bear because I didn't remove the nuts when I planted them. They'd be a little taller if they hadn't been eaten back the first year. Cages got knocked over. No nuts yet. Mine came as seedlings from Morse.[/quote]
It looks like the USDA changed my zone to 4B instead of 3B. These have survived 27-30 below temps if that helps. The tallest is now coming out of a 4' tube. The others were nipped back by deer the first year. They are now bushy instead of central leader.

[/quote]

Carl,
Your DCOs look GREAT given these harsh conditions they've been grown under. Your low temps are really something (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) Do you by chance remember what seed source Morse used for its seedlings, and what was the lowest temp they were going through?
Thank you VERY MUCH for posting these pics.

They did not give a seed source. They just listed that they were rated from zones 3-8.

SD51555 (Minnesota, zone 3) asked on another thread:
Has anyone ever tried putting their DCOs in a six foot tree tube? Can it be done?
NH Mountains (zone 4b) replied:
I'd say its possible but, it would probably take 5 years for them to grow out of the tubes. I've got one that was planted as a seedling in 2009 that is at the top of a 4' tube. This one is not spindly but, I had a chestnut that was in a tube that was very spindly and couldn't support itself when it got to the top. It had less light though.
I'd go with a 18-24&quot; tube with a 4-5' mesh tube on top.
KLee7013 (South Carolina replied):
Planted some DCO seedlings back in FEB.
One of them is out of a 5' tube now.
Most are 2 to 3' tall though but one is over 5' tall.

I recieved 1/2 lb. of DCO acorns from Blitz last week and planted about 1/2 of them in 32 cell RM trays. The rest I put in potting soil (not the sphagnum peat moss suggested but it's what I had available) in a double zip loc bag in the refrigerator. I moistened the soil with dilute hydrogen peroxide to prevent molding.
Neither of them have developed root radicals yet. How long does this usually take in the RM trays and in the fridge? Our daytime temps are still in the mid 80's and nights in the lower 70's.
I expect that the planted seeds will start seedlings fairly quickly. I'll post pics as soon as that happens, but didn't think anybody would be interested in photos of RM flats.
Thanks.

stupid question probably, but if I bought some dco's rt now could I just go out and put them into the ground?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by jerred44
stupid question probably, but if I bought some dco's rt now could I just go out and put them into the ground?
==================================
For me, that is the best way to go. You absolutely have to protect them and I use tree tubes dropped 1&quot; in the ground and clear out all the vegetation around the tube so rodents do not find them inviting.
Less hassle and no daily waterings in the summer like with rootmaker pots or some other type of pot.

Planning on direct seeding about half of my DCO acorns and saving the rest until spring. Is now the best time to plant them or should I wait a little while so there is no chance of top growth?

 

[yoderjac]

in a double zip loc bag in the refrigerator.
Neither of them have developed root radicals yet. How long does this usually take in the RM trays and in the fridge? Our daytime temps are still in the mid 80's and nights in the lower 70's.
Philip,
I don't recommend putting them in 2 zip loc bags. Two bags will interfere with gas exchange still needed by the acorns.
It should take about 10 days until radicals develop in your RM trays. Be aware that you REALLY have to watch watering. The cells in 32 trays are pretty small and easily dry out.
We've had ours in the fridge for about 1 month now, and a few of them are just starting to push. The cooler the fridge, the better.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by darkhollow1
Planning on direct seeding about half of my DCO acorns and saving the rest until spring. Is now the best time to plant them or should I wait a little while so there is no chance of top growth?
==================================
I don't believe you'll get top growth in your area if you plant your acorns out in the field now. The night temps are getting cooler, so the chances are pretty slim that you'll get top growth. It would be different if they forecast a very warm fall. I don't believe that's the case.
However, if you are little worried, then wait a little. I wouldn't plant them later than middle October.

Darkhollow,
My place is in se NE and I purchased dco acorns from Blitz last fall and then direct seeded them into preworked ground. None came out above but sure grew a serious tap root. This spring when I dug a few up there were a couple that were 6&quot; plus and all averaged at least 4&quot;. They have grown well. I have not watered them this summer and we have been very dry again in my area.
After I planted them I watered them and then covered with a good inch of mulch and let nature take its course. I then put 30&quot; tree tubes on them when they came up this spring.
I think you will be fine planting this fall.

how late can u direct seed them? how deep should I put them in the ground?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by jerred44
how late can u direct seed them? how deep should I put them in the ground?
==================================
Jerred44,
Where do you live in PA? In the mountains or near the coast?
Regarding the planting depth, info is found at the beginning of the thread.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
in a double zip loc bag in the refrigerator.
Neither of them have developed root radicals yet. How long does this usually take in the RM trays and in the fridge? Our daytime temps are still in the mid 80's and nights in the lower 70's.
Philip,
I don't recommend putting them in 2 zip loc bags. Two bags will interfere with gas exchange still needed by the acorns.
It should take about 10 days until radicals develop in your RM trays. Be aware that you REALLY have to watch watering. The cells in 32 trays are pretty small and easily dry out.
We've had ours in the fridge for about 1 month now, and a few of them are just starting to push. You don't those to develop a radical quickly. The cooler the fridge, the better.
==================================
Thanks. I wondered about that. I double bagged them because of the concern about ethylene gas. As per my previous posts, I only have the one fridge and it's pretty much stuffed with fruits and vegetables most of the time.
I'm going to take about 1/2 of the remaining acorns (looks like about 30 or so) and direct seed them when I go up to TN in a couple of weeks. I decided to go with 4' tree tubes instead of the landscaping fabric for protection as I'm not sure I'll be able to get back up there next spring.

Id be planting them in west central illinois

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by jerred44
Id be planting them in west central illinois
==================================
You can direct plant them in the field now, provided you have sufficient soil moisture.
However, I wouldn't plant them any later than middle of October.

thanks, when could i plant in the spring if i stored them

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by jerred44
thanks, when could i plant in the spring if i stored them
==================================
This is what we said at the beginning of this thread:
General Information about Acorns from the White Oak Group (incl. DCO's)
- DCOs are in the white oak group so they send an establishment root called a radicle in the fall
- Once this root is established it needs a cold treatment of at least 3 months (called vernalization, much like winter wheat) of 33-38 F (extreme cold should be avoided)
In nature (in the wild), acorns from the white oak group fall on the ground, germinate, undergo a cold treatment, and flush out in the spring.
So we have to MIMIC NATURE!!!
For BEST results:
- Plant the acorns in the fall, either in the field or in propagation trays
- Put them in a cold spot. Avoid temperature swings!
- Make sure they don't dry out!
Spring planted:
- Plant them in the spring, position them sideways (tip on side, root will split and shoot will emerge from there)
- Planting depth (twice the acorn width, that is 1/2 - 1 inch deep)
We have grown plants this way, too (overwintered acorns in the fridge). However, we believe this kind of treatment sets them back. They don't grow as quickly. They seem to need extra time to get their roots established and to flush out.
If you really want to plant them in the field <u>in the spring</u>, then do it once the ground has thawed.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
in a double zip loc bag in the refrigerator.
Philip,
I don't recommend putting them in 2 zip loc bags. Two bags will interfere with gas exchange still needed by the acorns.
It should take about 10 days until radicals develop in your RM trays. Be aware that you REALLY have to watch watering. The cells in 32 trays are pretty small and easily dry out.
We've had ours in the fridge for about 1 month now, and a few of them are just starting to push. The cooler the fridge, the better.
==================================
I guess I should be more patient, but I'm a little concerned that the acorns that I direct planted in RM 32 cell trays (2 trays) haven't developed any sign of a root radical yet. I planted them on the 21st. I've been very careful to maintain the moisture and tested them with a garden tester. They haven't dried out as I've been checking them every day. Should I be worried or just be more patient?
Thanks.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by phopkinsiii
I guess I should be more patient, but I'm a little concerned that the acorns that I direct planted in RM 32 cell trays (2 trays) haven't developed any sign of a root radical yet. I planted them on the 21st. I've been very careful to maintain the moisture and tested them with a garden tester. They haven't dried out as I've been checking them every day. Should I be worried or just be more patient?
Thanks.
==================================
Philip,
Did you cover your acorns or just put them on top of the potting soil?

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
Philip,
Did you cover your acorns or just put them on top of the potting soil?
==================================
They're about 1/2 inch deep. Because of settling of the soil and loss of small amounts through the bottom of the RM cells, a few were exposed after a couple of days. I covered them lightly with new potting soil.

What temps are you keeping the prospects at?
I wouldn't be too worried...the float test is a good barometer for good acorns. Also, anticipation makes us all paranoid.
Personally, the only thing I would use the RM 32 for is a much smaller plant...not trees. Too much root comes from acorns and large seeds.
I had plenty of mulberry cuttings take off in the 32's...
Moving large rooted plants is always a shock to the plant..so, I used the Rm24's for my previous acorn, and chestnut starts and moved them into the 1 gallon from there...but, actually, from spending all this time and effort into growing the nuts into trees...let Mother Nature do it. Find and prep your spots and plant the nuts into there final destination first. Works much better and cheaper. Especially on your electric bill, nerves, and bug preventions.
Good luck with your little dudes!

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by phopkinsiii
They're about 1/2 inch deep. Because of settling of the soil and loss of small amounts through the bottom of the RM cells, a few were exposed after a couple of days. I covered them lightly with new potting soil.
==================================
Well, I don't know what to say. Only: Have patience. So you carefully dug up several acorns and did NOT see any sign of root establishment yet? I know they weren't dried up at all when you received them.
As Thayer asked: What temp. do you keep your RM cells at?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Thayer.qdma
What temps are you keeping the prospects at?
==================================
They are out on my back porch right now. Our daytime temps are averaging in the mid to upper 80's and night lows are in the lower 70's. The pots are in the shade most of the day right now. The porch averages a few degrees cooler. Short answer, daytime in the mid-80's, nights in the low 70's.
Check out the boss watering system. I have it on a timer watering every three days which keeps the cells moist but not wet.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Thayer.qdma
Personally, the only thing I would use the RM 32 for is a much smaller plant...not trees.
==================================
Yes, that's one of the things I learned after I planted them. My plan right now is to wait until the roots start to show in the side ports and transfer them to 1 gallon RM pots.
Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Thayer.qdma
...let Mother Nature do it. Find and prep your spots and plant the nuts into there final destination first. Works much better and cheaper. Especially on your electric bill, nerves, and bug preventions.
Good luck with your little dudes!
==================================
I've heard both sides of this, and I agree with you in general. If the tree is going to thrive, it will have to do so in it's final home. The only problem is that I don't live on the farm where I'm planting them. I'm about 12 hours away and can only get up there every three months. Watering is not an option if the weather goes dry (not a problem this year), so I believe that getting the plants well past the seedling stage where I can take care of them is the best option right now.
I am going to direct plant some of my remaining acorns when I go up there this week. I'll protect the future seedlings from varmints with tree tubes and landscape fabric, but then they're on their own until turkey season.
Any advice on soil prep? I've done soil tests up there and the native soil is pretty poor. pH in the 4.5-5 range, high in phosphate and low in potassium.
Thanks for the suggestions.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
Well, I don't know what to say. Only: Have patience. So you carefully dug up several acorns and did NOT see any sign of root establishment yet? I know they weren't dried up at all when you received them.
As Thayer asked: What temp. do you keep your RM cells at?
==================================
I hear you about the patience. I'm trying to figure out if there is anything I can or need to do differently at this point.
Yes, I gently pulled a few out of the cells and none had any sign of seed splitting or radical formation.
No, the acorns were not dried when I received them, and I was absolutely meticulous about keeping them moist afterwards. Per your advice, I planted 1/2 of them in the RM 32's. The others I put in the fridge (42 deg.) with moist potting mix in a 1 gallon zip loc.
The only possible issue that I've seen is that two or three of the RM cells developed some fine white substance on top of the soil that appeared to be mold. I sprayed these with 0.25% H202 and that seemed to cure the problem immediately.
I only had access to Miracle Gro potting soil, and not the professional blends that you and others have suggested. Those soils aren't available in my area. The potting soil was from a newly opened bag. I've used the miracle gro soil for many other plantings and always had good luck with it. It's not the moisture retention kind, but I'm pretty convinced that moisture isn't the issue.
Is it possible that it's too hot where the flats are? As per my reply above, daytime temps average in the mid-80's with low 70's at night. Unfortunately, it's not an option to bring them in-my wife would kill me (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) -but I could put a fan on them during the day.
BTW, I'm not suggesting that there was anything wrong with the acorns. Even if there were, I doubt that they would all be bad. I'm trying to figure out what I could have done differently.

I would give them time. The one time I raised some from seed the wait was a long time for the radical to show. I noticed a two week difference in germination from seed to seed.

I direct seeded 60 yesterday, is it alright if I save the other 40 in the fridge until the spring and if some don't grow and can replace them with the remainder in the fridge?

i've read a lot on this thread and others about DCO's slow growth during the first year with most energy directed toward root development.
but how much growth is &quot;normal?&quot; i'm in zone 6 and my DCOs planted from seed last fall are about 4-6&quot; tall, typically with 3 leaves that are about 1/5-2&quot; long. it doesn't seem like they put on ANY growth after the initial sprout and leaf development in May.
so is this little vertical growth normal? if not, i'd probably pull the 5' tubes to use on new seedlings for next spring's plantings.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by NE PA QDM
i've read a lot on this thread and others about DCO's slow growth during the first year with most energy directed toward root development.
but how much growth is &quot;normal?&quot; i'm in zone 6 and my DCOs planted from seed last fall are about 4-6&quot; tall, typically with 3 leaves that are about 1/5-2&quot; long. it doesn't seem like they put on ANY growth after the initial sprout and leaf development in May.
so is this little vertical growth normal? if not, i'd probably pull the 5' tubes to use on new seedlings for next spring's plantings.
==================================
This is good growth for first year dco's (fall planted, perm site) in my experience. 6-8&quot; tall...and they r growing like gangbusters now on this site and already dropping acorns.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by NH Mountains
I would give them time. The one time I raised some from seed the wait was a long time for the radical to show. I noticed a two week difference in germination from seed to seed.
==================================
Right you are! Patience is a virtue that I sometimes posess in short supply.
Just about the time I was afraid that I'd done something badly wrong, this little guy showed up. I planted this in a 32 cell rootmaker on September 20, or 18 days ago. I know that this timing varies with the conditions, but now I'll know somewhat what to expect.

This happened almost overnight. I had just checked this one the yesterday and saw no signs of a root.
My plan is to take all of my acorns that have germinated up to TN with me next week and plant them. I'm hoping for at least 30.
Stupid Question: Is the root radical now pointing in the 'down' direction. In other words, should I plant the seed with the radical downwards into the ground?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by jlane35
I direct seeded 60 yesterday, is it alright if I save the other 40 in the fridge until the spring and if some don't grow and can replace them with the remainder in the fridge?
==================================
I've read several posts suggesting that you can do that.
I took a slightly different approach, although time will tell if it's the right one. Because I live in Florida and our winter is mild, as in non-existent, I'm germinating about 1/2 of my acorns on a flat with a layer of newspaper covered with 2&quot; of moist potting soil as per the following link on the rootmaker web site:
http://www.rootmaker.com/docs/GrowingTreeSeedlings.pdf
I'm taking the entire flat up to Tennessee this week and will plant the ones that germinate over the following 10 days.
The rest I've placed in 2 flats of Rootmaker 32 cells. When these start to grow roots out the side port and the tap root is air pruned, I'll transfer the hardiest to 1 gallon rootmaker pots. The culls will be gifts to my neighbor on the adjacent farm in the spring.

Phophinskii,
GREAT to see that your acorns are finally sprouting. Since you live in sunny Florida, you have a chance that you'll get top growth established if it's continually warm all the time. So try and keep them as cool as possible to delay top growth. Also watch your watering, i.e., no drying out and no overwatering.

I direct seeded 60 yesterday, is it alright if I save the other 40 in the fridge until the spring and if some don't grow and can replace them with the remainder in the fridge?
You can do that. Just keep them in the coolest fridge possible over winter, preferably a beer fridge with no fruit storage.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
Phophinskii,
GREAT to see that your acorns are finally sprouting. Since you live in sunny Florida, you have a chance that you'll get top growth established if it's continually warm all the time. So try and keep them as cool as possible to delay top growth. Also watch your watering, i.e., no drying out and no overwatering.
==================================
Well, I had great success with the acorns that I placed in a flat in potting medium over a layer of newspaper. About 3/4 of them have sprouted tap roots and come throught the bottom of the mesh flat.
Sadly, I think that I overwatered the ones in the 32 cell rootmaker pots. They now all have mold on them. I checked several of them and none have sprouted root radicals after over 1 month.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Is there a way to rescue these or are they goners? Should I pull them out of the pots, rinse them in dilute bleach and refrigerate to suppress the mold, or replant them in dry, sterile potting medium. I'm going to mix my own medium with peat moss and perlite as per the reference above.
On the good side, I planted 16 of the sprouted acorns on my farm in NE Tennessee in a spot I think will be perfect for them. It's on a ridge next to a recent clear-cut that gets plenty of sun. There are stands of red, white and chestnut oak nearby that are doing really well.

I used the wire mesh method to protect the seeds from the rodents. It would take a pretty determined rat to get through this!

I'm in zone 7b. Can I direct seed some DCOs now? Or is it too late?

This fall I planted some chinquapins some outside the rest inside, before learning any of this post. The ones I planted outside got about two weeks of cool weather, then they all started growing, I brought them in and they are 3- 5 inches now! The ones I left inside aren't up at all! Can I put those outside for only couple of weeks and bring them in? I would like to get them all of a head start that I can.

can anyone show me some pics of average sized trees after 1 year, 2, and 3 years as well

Some photos of my DCO's at 16 weeks. These are the ones that I've been growing indoors under lights. I direct planted another 18 on top of a ridge on my hunt property in TN. I'll see how they're doing when I go up there next week. Fully dormant I'd imagine--it's been COLD up there!
Root Ball at 16 weeks from RM 18 cell

With the soil cleaned off-couldn't get all the perlite out the root ball was so dense.

Before Planting. All these had 1/2-2 inch tap roots when they were planted. 6/10 grew seedlings; Overall success rate was about 30%, but I made some big mistakes (too much moisture).

Planted in Publix bags with 1 part each perlite, coconut coir and Promix BX

 

[yoderjac]

Nice looking rootballs! How long did it take for your acorns to push top growth once you planted them?
Chris

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Turkey Creek
Nice looking rootballs! How long did it take for your acorns to push top growth once you planted them?
Chris
==================================
Thanks.
It was higly variable. The quickest popped a shoot within a week, the longest took 3 weeks. I haven't figured out what is the common denominator. There was some difference in tap root size that varied from 1-2&quot;.

I pulled my dco acorns out of the fridge Monday afternoon, checked today and 16 had already shot out a radicle pretty fast I thought.

When I received my DCOs in the mail they were pretty moist inside the plastic bag. A little water even collected on the bottom of the bag. I placed them directly in the fridge with only about half the bag sealed shut. After about 100 days I pulled them from the fridge. Several had mold, some already sprouted a tap root, and others were ready to place in flats for germination. I'll have to count my nuts but I'd say I'm somewhere close a 60% germination rate at this point with the DCOs.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Ones that germinated in the fridge went directly into 18 cell rootmakers, using Fafard 3B as a medium. I think I ended up with 22 that germinated in the fridge.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Photo taken 5 days after planting:
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
About 10 days after planting both nuts that germinated in the fridge and nuts that germinated in flats began to send shoots through the surface. I'm begining to think it depends on the individual nut as to how fast they grow.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
I'll be sure to keep this thread updated as I go along. At this stage I've been watering every 2-3 days. I'm growing in my basement, roughly 10' away from my wood stove, so the soil tends to dry out rather quick.

Well guys, how are my DCOs looking? At day 24 since the first nuts went into the rootmakers I'd say they look pretty good. I've been trying to keep my lights about 3&quot; above the leafs and it seems to be paying off.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Being that this is my first grow, any feedback is appreciated!

Looks good as far as I can tell. Far more advanced than the few that I planted in some experimental pots and potting mixes. After about 24 days I am just seeing a couple shoot tips emerging. I have had good tap root growth, just no above ground growth until this past weekend.
Chris

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Turkey Creek
Looks good as far as I can tell. Far more advanced than the few that I planted in some experimental pots and potting mixes. After about 24 days I am just seeing a couple shoot tips emerging. I have had good tap root growth, just no above ground growth until this past weekend.
Chris
==================================
I did go a little overboard this season. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) Spent about $1500 on my setup to this point but I think it's paying off. Discovered some things I'll change for next season but overall I'm impressed with my trees. Didn't really have much to compare to but the trees seem to take off once they emerge from the soil so I think I'm got the right amount of light on them. I still have another table to build for my chestnuts this week so in another month I should have my hands full.

Figured an update was due. Roughly 8 weeks since I pulled the DCOs from the fridge. Many are finishing out their second growth flush and I'm hoping to get another flush of growth done with before I stick them in their final resting place.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Twig
Many are finishing out their second growth flush and I'm hoping to get another flush of growth done with before I stick them in their final resting place.
]
==================================
I hope you mean growing place!(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) Now I see why mine dont look as well as yours, I need a little worker man to tend to them.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Chris

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Turkey Creek
I hope you mean growing place!(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED) Now I see why mine dont look as well as yours, I need a little worker man to tend to them.(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
Chris
==================================
HAHA He keeps a watchful eye over things while I'm at work. I'm starting to get concerned with the growth of mine though. My intention with these was to grow mast producing bushes but these are growing more like trees. Hopefully someone else can chime in with some experience.

 

[yoderjac]

About how long can DCOs stay in Rootmaker 18s? I have 17 or 18 showing top growth as of today.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by mattpatt
About how long can DCOs stay in Rootmaker 18s? I have 17 or 18 showing top growth as of today.
==================================
Mine had a considerable root ball after 16 weeks
I wouldn't have wanted them to go much longer. These were rm 18's.

Okay, so I'm looking at around end of July first part of August time frame. Right when I do not need to plant anything in Texas. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

My DCOs that I thought were goners???

18 of 18 have top growth!!

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by mattpatt
Okay, so I'm looking at around end of July first part of August time frame. Right when I do not need to plant anything in Texas. (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)
==================================
Can you plant them out before that? 16 weeks is about the max recommended in the rm 18's but I don't know of a minimum.
You might lose a little of the root pruning advantage if you move them earlier but at least they could get established before the real heat hits.
The other thing I've observed and that others have mentioned is that these DCO's grow really slowly the first year. Mine went through a growth phase over the first 3-4 months and then stopped. Now the leaves are starting to brown up and it look like they're getting ready for fall.
I read one article that suggested that there isn't really a big advantage to starting these seeds indoors under lights. I don't remember what the authors reasoning was but it appears to me that the trees will go through their genetically programmed growth and dormancy phases and weather only has a moderating effect. I'll have to wait and see whether going dormant in late spring will have any harmful effects.
All this is based on little knowledge or experience so maybe one of the pros can weigh in.
Phil

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by mattpatt
My DCOs that I thought were goners???

18 of 18 have top growth!!
==================================
I check the tap root coming out of the acorn to see if its still yellow/green. That's a good sign, if that is brown and rotten, they are toast.

Wanted to update on the growth of my DCOs. Here's 8 days between previous pic and today. All 18 have now sent up top growth. One thing I've learned is that it may be best to go ahead and remove the shell if it has split. Sometimes the little shoot that it sends up as top growth gets stuck inside. I was able to save the last one that had not sent up top growth yet. I finally decided to remove the shell to see if anything had tried to form and sure enough it had. Now it's growing like it should.

Matt, really cool to see that much growth in just 8 days. Keep them coming.
Chad

Updated pic. Another weeks worth of growth....

Week 12 update... Don't mind the Bur and Sawtooths on the backside of the table.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

I checked on my DCOs I directed seeded last fall. I'm not seeing any top growth but they do have a tap root. Is this what is to be expected for this time of the year and being a northern climate?

My direct seeded DCOs are just breaking the surface. My 2 year olds are just leafing out. I am on the northern edge of zone 5.
Chris

last year my direct seeded dco's didnt break ground in northeastern PA until june. i'm where you are in terms of taproots but no top growth yet. give it a few more weeks.

I am waiting for top growth too on direct seeded dcos.
I do have several in my garden that have a little shoot emerging. But they get full sun and were stored indoors this winter. the root growth was much better then what i have noticed direct seeding.

Thanks guy I just wanted to make sure I didn't do something wrong.

Transitioned mine outdoors yesterday. Hopefully the extra care I provided them with will prove to be worth it in the long run. Plan on planting them within the next month once I decide on the layout I want. As of now, I've got 69 DCO to plant.
(INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED)

I'm growing a variety of stuff this year.. The flat on the left are my DCOs. They will be going in the ground if we ever get some rain!

My RM started DCO's are doing well. I plan to plant them in November.
I also tried direct planting 60 or so acorns. 10% of the DCO acorns sprouted. The trees are very small compared to those receiving TLC in the premium RM pots &amp; soil.

I've also noticed the same thing. Direct seeded DCOs are not growing near as well as ones in rootmakers

It will be interesting to compare RM to DC 3 or 4 years from now.

 

[yoderjac]

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Parker35
It will be interesting to compare RM to DC 3 or 4 years from now.
==================================
Mine went from seed to making seed in 3 years that were direct fall planted in zone 5.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by letemgrow
Mine went from seed to making seed in 3 years that were direct fall planted in zone 5.
==================================
Wow, I would be tickled for similar results. However, I didn't put much effort into the direct planting effort. So with my poor effort, I expect poor production results....

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Parker35
It will be interesting to compare RM to DC 3 or 4 years from now.
==================================
I direct seeded two in my yard and a bunch in the field protected with 2' tree tubes. The two that I direct seeded both came up but one is about 18&quot; tall and the other has never put on a second flush. Both trees are about 15' apart and both protected with 2' tubes. I weed eat and spray gly when weeds become a problem so the stunted growth isn't from competition. The others I direct seeded in the field and the ones that came up got hit with a late frost and killed most of them. I think I have two living out of the 20 or so that I direct seeded. I had about 50% germination then the late frost got most of them after that.
I also have 18 in rootmakers. Those are doing great except for the constant watering and the powdery mildew that I've been having to treat.

I haven't had any mildew problems on my RM system. What kind of soil did you use? Does it drain well?
I transferred my seedlings from the 18-cell trays into 3 gal RM pots last month. As you mentioned, I got tired of daily watering. If you seedlings have a second growth, it may be time to transplant into larger containers or bags.

I used miracle grow potting soil. Not the best thing I know but I live in a rural area and it was all I could find. I water by placing the whole rootmaker tray inside a slightly larger container filled with water about half way. The rootmaker cells soak up the water from the bottom up and when the top of the soil is moist I know it's time to take them out. Works pretty well but I'm constantly rotating all my trays out to keep everything good and moist. When it's mid 90's and wind blowing they dry out rather quickly.
I'm getting ready to transfer everything into 1 gal root pouch grow bags (3-4 year) as soon as they come in. The 3-4 year root pouches work similar to the root trapper bags but are much less expensive. I'm planting all of them as soon as they go dormant this fall so I figured I could get by with 1 gallon pots instead of 3 gallon ones since it's already almost July. Next year, I'm going to start everything later and hopefully bypass having to transplant them into larger containers and just directly plant in their final places from the rootmaker trays.
Matt

We were asked this question the other day and would like to post our reply in case someone else might have the same question. Whoever has tackled this issue successfully, please post your reply.
&quot;Has anyone successfully overwintered Dco's in containers.I have quite a few it 1 gallon pots and was wanting to grow them that way for another year.&quot; (Habitat manager lives in Michigan)
Our reply:
I would dig a shallow trench and put all the pots pot-tight in a block (not row) and heel them in with either mulch or straw but only after they have gone dormant. Take care of this shortly after they go dormant. Don't wait too long. If you have a dry fall or winter, make sure to give them supplemental water but don't overwater. If you use straw, the concern is that mice could go in there, nest and eventually girdle your plants. So you'd have to make sure, that you keep an eye on it. The benefit of straw is, that it doesn't retain moisture as long as mulch does. If you still have the acorn attached to the seedling, you'll have to remove it carefully.
Thanks
Troy

Addition:
If you can, dig that trench on a protected north side where the plants don't get much sun in the winter. This reduces the freeze and thaw-effect a lot more.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
We were asked this question the other day and would like to post our reply in case someone else might have the same question. Whoever has tackled this issue successfully, please post your reply.
&quot;Has anyone successfully overwintered Dco's in containers.I have quite a few it 1 gallon pots and was wanting to grow them that way for another year.&quot; (Habitat manager lives in Michigan)
Our reply:
I would dig a shallow trench and put all the pots pot-tight in a block (not row) and heel them in with either mulch or straw but only after they have gone dormant. Take care of this shortly after they go dormant. Don't wait too long. If you have a dry fall or winter, make sure to give them supplemental water but don't overwater. If you use straw, the concern is that mice could go in there, nest and eventually girdle your plants. So you'd have to make sure, that you keep an eye on it. The benefit of straw is, that it doesn't retain moisture as long as mulch does. If you still have the acorn attached to the seedling, you'll have to remove it carefully.
Thanks
Troy
==================================
Troy,
Thanks for the timely info. I'll be doing this exact thing this fall. I have apples, dunstan chestnuts, crabapples, and DCO's in 3 gallon RM pots (60 trees in all). Next week I'm moving them from Florida to Tennessee where they will overwinter before planting next spring.
Because of time constraints, I won't be able to heel them in, but I will be able to mulch them with straw. I also plan to protect them from rodents with window screen wrapped around the base of the trunk about 18&quot; up.
How important is the heeling in? Is it to protect the roots from freezing or drying out or both?
They also won't be dormant as it's still in the 80's here. I plan to go back the last week in October. Should I wait until then to cover them with mulch. I can also dig the trench at that time if necessary. Digging anything in that rocky ground is back breaking work. How deep does it need to be?
Phil

Anyone have a source they mind sharing? I searched ebay but was unable to find anything. Do any nurseries sell the acorns? I found several with the trees, but I am wanting to grow my own.

Good luck every source I have found are gone till next Labor Day.

I am gathering up my supplies for next spring's planting and my Plantra grow tubes came in 5 footers for some of the other varieties I will plant next spring.
Are the 5 footers to large for DCO? I plan on ordering 10 or so bare root DCO from Oikos and planting them in the spring.
Just wondering if I should get some smaller ones for DCO.

 

[yoderjac]

You could do what I did, cut a 5' into half lengthwise and then attach the sections side by side. Making a large diameter tube that is only 2.5' tall. DCOs are slow growers with typically a more shrub like growth pattern.
Chris

So.....what't the verdict on planting these things....tubes, &quot;double&quot; tubes, or just cage 'em!

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by CAS_HNTR
So.....what't the verdict on planting these things....tubes, &quot;double&quot; tubes, or just cage 'em!
==================================
Personally I would just cage them. I've not had good luck with tubes and DCOs. We used 2' tubes on all ours and have lost at least half of them. We're curious how many will come out of dormancy this spring.

After having started these.bad boys and seeing their painfully slow growth and general frailness. .....I think i may buy bare root ones next time. ...hahaha.
They just seem to grow so slow and I have lost numerous ones for no apparent reason...they start and then die.....they are the only ones that have been burned by fertilizer....some to the point they died too....frustrated.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Blitz
We were asked this question the other day and would like to post our reply in case someone else might have the same question. Whoever has tackled this issue successfully, please post your reply.
&quot;Has anyone successfully overwintered Dco's in containers.I have quite a few it 1 gallon pots and was wanting to grow them that way for another year.&quot; (Habitat manager lives in Michigan)
==================================
DCOs are one of the last things to leaf out around here. Mine are just starting to break bud. I overwintered all mine in 1 gallon root pouches mulched in hay next to the North side of my privacy fence so as to block the cold North wind. Looks like most have made it. They will be transferred to 3 gallon root pouches and grown another year in my back yard.
Matt

Not sure what i'm doing wrong - but 2 years now I've gotten no germination/radicles from my DCO's i planted in RM 18 trays and left outside. I was careful to keep them moist. Not sure what would cause them to not germinate at all? Ideas? I'm in central IL.

The way most of us germinated DCO acorns was to place in some damp peat moss in a ziplock bag and place in the refrigerator. The scorns will begin to germinate in the bag and then you transfer to the RM18s after you see signs of a root radicle.
Matt

Well this is my 2nd attempt at growing DCO. First attempt I failed miserably. I planted these into RM 18 on Valentines day and grew them under lights indoors. They are just now starting the second leaf stage. I was expecting more growth but this seems to be normal for DCO after all I have read. I only have about a dozen survivors out of probably 50 nuts. Some started and died others never started. Just wondering how much growth to expect the first year and also should they stay in 18's until they get more growth? Should I move them into 5&quot; root trapper bags I think Ill keep them for a year before planting outside. Compared to my Chestnuts that were started at the same time they are tiny.

Most of mine I grew last year were 12 to 18&quot; by fall. I usually let all my trees go about 3 months in a rootmaker 18 before moving it but it largely depends on how fast the tree is growing. From the looks of yours, I'd think you'd be okay letting them go that long. You might think about adding a little bit of Osmocote Plus to each tree to give it a little boost.
Here's a DCO that I grew from seed last year then moved to a 1 gallon root pouch around August and overwintered in my back yard.

Matt

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks Matt. I have been using osmocote plus. I'll leave them in the 18s for a while then to bags. Are you planting the ones you overwintered this spring or you gonna hang onto them for a while?

Direct seeding them in the spring has produced the best DCOs for me. Those that I did last year grew 2-3x as much as any I have ever grown in pots, no matter the pot type or &quot;soil&quot; mixture.
Chris

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by Turkey Creek
Direct seeding them in the spring has produced the best DCOs for me. Those that I did last year grew 2-3x as much as any I have ever grown in pots, no matter the pot type or &quot;soil&quot; mixture.
Chris
==================================
i'm assuming you meant seedlings or acorns that had germinated and the radicles were established? or do you mean just the acorn?

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by wango tango
i'm assuming you meant seedlings or acorns that had germinated and the radicles were established? or do you mean just the acorn?
==================================
Yes. I have been planting them in March. Zone 5b. Most usually have a radicle.
Chris

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by callnfur
Thanks Matt. I have been using osmocote plus. I'll leave them in the 18s for a while then to bags. Are you planting the ones you overwintered this spring or you gonna hang onto them for a while?
==================================
Right now the plan is to baby them through one more summer then plant when they go dormant.
Matt

Anyone got pics of older dco's they have grown? and taller tubed vs bush versions? Took out an old fenceline on my property and was considering putting some DCOs where it was between all my other trees and the corn field since they dont get very large. Just not really sure what to expect for size and acorn production capabilities.

I have some two year old trees in pots. This will be the last time I try DCOs in NE Texas. My brother and I have planted them two years in a row and none of them are doing very good.
Matt

We received this question today:
&quot;What is your thought for planting in grow bags? I looked them up, and they have quarts 3x3x7, half gallon 4x4x9. They are cheaper than pots and more manageable for me. I was thinking of planting in the woods in the fall of year 2 or before emergence of year 3.&quot;
Our answer:
The grow bags will work for your application. The only thing is that direct planting into the grow bags will not give you the fibrous root system that you would have from starting the seeds in an open bottom container. The plants might also grow a little slower (although as you know DCO's don't grow a lot the first year or two).
If you are going to grow in a quart or half gallon bag, these are a little small so I would go not more than two years in those small bags. One other down size is that if you direct plant the seed in a grow bag; the plant will grow more of a carrot root.
The carrot root does not hold onto soil as well as a fibrous root system so when you remove the bag and work on moving the exposed root ball to the planting spot you could lose a large amount of soil from around the root system causing shock. If you are careful and you ensure that the soil is slightly moist you should have minimal issues with this.

I received twenty DCO acorns ordered from eBay in the mail today. All 20 are floaters. Did I get a sack full of worthless?

Well, I'm entering the ranks of the DCO growers. I've gone through this thread a couple times. I received my DCO nuts today. Many had tiny root radicles starting. For now, I placed them in a ziplock bag half closed with a handful of damp long-fiber sphagnum and put it in the fridge.
I just order a couple trays of RM 32s. Once they come in, I'll plant the nuts in them with promix and keep them at room temperature for a week or two. I then plan to water them good and place the entire tray in one of the large ziplock storage bags and place it in the fridge.
I'm going to try this method with several other nuts that sprout in the fall as well. I've just done it with 10 ACs accept I used 18s instead of 32s cause they were on hand. I also have seguins on order scheduled to arrive in December.
My plan is to try vernalizing them for different periods, none, 1 month, 2 months, and 3 months and then look at the results in the fall.
Blitz,
Last year I tried growing ACs for the first time. They sprouted in September when I picked them so I just planted them. They grew well under lights in 18s. I kept a few and transplanted them to 1 gal RB2s and 5&quot; bags. They seemed to stall in the spring. While these look healthy, they were only a foot or so tall when I planted them in the field yesterday.
I didn't know what to do with the rest. I didn't have enough large containers to handle them indoors so I tried a long shot and attempted to force them into dormancy. They were too young and it killed them all.
I realize Allegheny Chinquapins are more like chestnuts than DCO, but because they germinate without cold stratification, they are similar to DCO in that regard.
I've ben interested in any thought you have on how DCOs would perform if you didn't vernalize them at all. If you simply planted them in 18s and then transplanted them into larger containers when appropriate.
If you already have a good answer as to how much or little vernalizing affects their growth, there is no sense in me completely reinventing the wheel.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jack

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by yoderj@cox.net

I just order a couple trays of RM 32s. Once they come in, I'll plant the nuts in them with promix and keep them at room temperature for a week or two. I then plan to water them good and place the entire tray in one of the large ziplock storage bags and place it in the fridge.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Jack
==================================
I did this last year with my DCO and had about a 60% success rate on trees that put on top growth. I used a light duty garbage bag and left the trays in them with the open end of the bag loosely closed. On a few that I pulled out of the cells in January the tap root was almost to the bottom of the 18 cells. So they indeed sent out a long tap root while in the fridge. Of the ones that didn't show top growth I found 2 problems. Some just never germinated period. The others had tap roots but they were rotted...to wet in the cell would be my assumption...

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by callnfur
I did this last year with my DCO and had about a 60% success rate on trees that put on top growth. I used a light duty garbage bag and left the trays in them with the open end of the bag loosely closed. On a few that I pulled out of the cells in January the tap root was almost to the bottom of the 18 cells. So they indeed sent out a long tap root while in the fridge. Of the ones that didn't show top growth I found 2 problems. Some just never germinated period. The others had tap roots but they were rotted...to wet in the cell would be my assumption...
==================================
Thanks! Very interesting. I received my 32s yesterday. I went though my bag of nuts and selected 32 that show a root radicle starting and planted them in one of the 32s. I used and XL ziplock storage bag to enclose it. The end of the bag is open but I tied the handles together so it is not completely open. I found the 32s are not stiff enough to handle on their own. I put them in a solid flat before putting them in the bag. I'm going to leave them at room temperature to get them started for a week before putting them in the fridge. I still have some more DCO nuts but since they have not shown signs of a radicle yet I'm just keeping them in a ziplock with damp long-fiber sphagnum until I see a root radicle.
I'll try to make sure they are not too wet.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I got a pound of DCOs from Blitz. I placed them in the fridge as soon as they arrived. Fridge temp has been 33 to 34 degrees.
I have four trays of Rootmaker Express 18s in a new grow box. I did three trays about a week ago and did the fourth tray today.
Every DCO that was placed in a rootmaker container has a good looking radicle. I have a small dorm size fridge that is full of chestnuts. Space is scarce for cooling nuts.
I am using an excellent draining growing medium. I am not concerned about the soil making them waterlogged.
Question 1. Can this approach produce DCO seedlings?
Question 2. How long before it would be reasonable to see top growth? My indoor grow box runs 75 to 80 degrees. I use 4 foot shop lights.
I need to hear from those of you that are experienced. Thanks

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by wbpdeer
I got a pound of DCOs from Blitz. I placed them in the fridge as soon as they arrived. Fridge temp has been 33 to 34 degrees.
I have four trays of Rootmaker Express 18s in a new grow box. I did three trays about a week ago and did the fourth tray today.
Every DCO that was placed in a rootmaker container has a good looking radicle. I have a small dorm size fridge that is full of chestnuts. Space is scarce for cooling nuts.
I am using an excellent draining growing medium. I am not concerned about the soil making them waterlogged.
Question 1. Can this approach produce DCO seedlings?
Question 2. How long before it would be reasonable to see top growth? My indoor grow box runs 75 to 80 degrees. I use 4 foot shop lights.
I need to hear from those of you that are experienced. Thanks
==================================
Hello Wayne, congratulations on your retirement. I'm hoping to be in the same position a year or so from now (INTERNAL IMAGE LIKE EMOTICON REMOVED). I have grown, or tried to grow DCO's many different ways. I have found the best way is the way described by Blitz at the beginning of this thread and the way I documented earlier in this thread. Having said that, I have grown them the way you proposed (substitute greenhouse/natural light for grow box) and have been somewhat successful but not nearly so as the way this thread initially describes. It seems DCO's must go through a winter dormancy period before you get any serious top-growth activity. You will get some using your technique but I fear not a satisfactory amount. I used to get topgrowth on about 10% when planted in December/January- not very good. When I put them in pots and kept them cold until March and then placed in greenhouse - topgrowth increased to 90%. However, there are so many other variables that may have contributed to my lack of success that I think it is worth a shot. Keep us posted on how you make out. In fact - I have a bunch of DCO's in the fridge that I have simply not had time to do anything with. This weekend, I will put some in 18's in my sunroom and we can compare notes throughout the rest of the winter.

Grapevine,
If I was to only hit on 10% I would be very disappointed. I have 72 in rootmaker 18s right now. They have been in the grow box and all had nice radicles when they were put in the soil.
Following your method - I should now remove the 72 from the grow box and put them in a cold environment until springtime (say late March or early April). My basement temperatures are 59 / 60 degrees F. It would reason to me I need them in colder temps than that.
If I put them outside on a porch I would need wire protection and I would need to avoid freezing temperatures. Would I need to limit direct sunlight?
I am willing to modify my efforts but I want to do it so my % swing to more successes than failures.
My grow box they are in has temps from 74 to 78 most times - it touches 80 occasionally.
Thanks for the help. I hope your days between now and retirement go well.
Please let me know if what I outlined doing in this post makes sense to you.

I have grown them as well and they are a little frustrating.....I have always chilled them for several months before planting them in my 18s.
I did plant some into large pots as soon as I received them last year and they put up growth and leaves before winter hit. The issue I had was they put down SUPER long tap roots over winter (like 2' feet on a 4&quot; tall tree) and I then had a lot of issues getting them to larger pots without setting them way back.
I will do what I did last year, but will start them pretty soon (earlier than last year) in hopes that I can get better growth by fall this year. My BEST ones made it to about 15&quot; last year!
They are picky.......be stingy on water!

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by grapevine
A few photo's of my DCO fall planting: My DCO grave.

Filled with germinated seed.

Mulched.

Hardware cloth installed.

==================================
Wayne, this is what I did for some of mine.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by grapevine
My cold storage room.

Germinated seed in cold storage.

I still have about 100 growing in the greenhouse, I'll probably put some in cold storage and bring some inside in the sunroom for the winter. I ended up planting in a mix of Promix BX with pine bark fines. Also managed to get a bag of Promix BRK with fungicide. Also planted some in Jiffy forestry pellets. We'll see what works best. As I type this, Sandy is howling outside. Amazingly, still have not lost power.
==================================
This is what I did with others. No light, cold conditions. If you put all of your trays in a cooler and left them on your porch, I think that would work. Would limit extremes in temp, protect from mice, etc. If it got super cold, just drag the cooler in for the night.

Quote:
==================================
Originally Posted by grapevine
This is what I did with others. No light, cold conditions. If you put all of your trays in a cooler and left them on your porch, I think that would work. Would limit extremes in temp, protect from mice, etc. If it got super cold, just drag the cooler in for the night.
==================================
Careful with the cooler thing. I've tried to keep birdseed in a cooler on the deck before and had squirrels chew holes in the cooler to get in. They make a glorious mess of things! I've found a metal trashcan with a tight lid is the only way I can keep critters out if I'm storing seed outside.

1. If I buy a used fridge and put the DCO in that with a temp of about 40 degrees that would store them in soil OK.
Do you agree with #1.
2. Would you leave them in the rootmaker 18s or would you put the DCOs in a deep tub with growing medium to help the length of the tap root?
3. Different way - will DCO in rootmaker 18s give me a good outcome?
Thanks. I have a used fridge that may be available for $50. That seems to be the best path if it is good for the DCO.
Catscratch - I have a squirrel proof cage that I built for my seedlings. It would be where I could protect them from the tree rats.