Advice For A Newbe

[Johnson]

Just purchased and setup my first CuddeLink system and have a question or two.

System - K-5796 dual cell (AT&T) home unit and I have one G-5079 remote, both have Cuddepower 3358s. I plan to add cameras as I learn more about what works well. No real issues with the factory suggested setup except the quality of the 5mp images, which I'll experiment with and try the 20mp if needed.

Question 1 - Any suggestions on configuration and settings of the home or remote that I should consider?

Question 2 - The property I hunt is mostly transitional and it gets good roving buck traffic during rut so I'm trying to put out cameras that are low or no glow flash for those rovers. The G-5079 seems to be that camera with 940nm flash. Any other camera suggestions?

I appreciate the input!

 

[bzb_1]

There is a guy on here who started a whole cuddelink questions thread...I believe he works for them or something.

 

[FredG]

...System - K-5796 dual cell (AT&T) home unit and I have one G-5079 remote, both have Cuddepower 3358s. I plan to add cameras as I learn more about what works well. No real issues with the factory suggested setup except the quality of the 5mp images, which I'll experiment with and try the 20mp if needed...

Can you explain a little further what you don't like about the 5mp images? Your K or G model, or both? Maybe post a picture or two that illustrates your issues. The 20mp setting is just an interpolation so it won't make any difference at all as to image quality, but there are some setup and settings options that might help maximize image quality if we know what your IQ objections are.

 

[Johnson]

They seem unclear during the day and at night compared to the previous cameras. I'm only using the G-509 at this point but I've got a G-5055 coming to test it's IR.

The closest deer on this night picture is about 45' from the camera which may be at it's limits.

 

[FredG]

Because of the fact that a CMOS sensor's sensitivity to black flash (940nm) is only about 1/3 of the sensitivity to red flash (850nm) and the small size (0.3mp) and heavy JPEG compression of the transmitted thumbnail image I tend to draw the line for range with black flash at about 30ft max (preferably inside of 20ft). Getting adequate light down range beyond that point with black flash is a struggle and the small image scale of deer on the tiny thumbnail pics makes it a further struggle to get useful information. So I think you are pushing the limits of the black flash with this setup. If you want to try to push the flash down range further to get better illumination, try tipping your camera up about 1 or 2 degrees (not too much) and see if that doesn't help. Also, it appears that this picture was taken with the default setting of 'Far' for your IR Mode. You could switch the IR Mode setting in the Commands menu to 'Close' and it will give you a picture with a much more pronounced contrast (like the Bushy pic) that you may find more pleasing, but it may come at the expense of an apparent shortening of the flash range due to the higher contrast processing and a little more motion blur on moving subjects. The trade off is a personal preference thing.

That being said, my initial reaction to the picture you posted above was to suspect a little ground fog or high humidity because the thumbnail just looks more blurry and indistinct than what I normally get, but you've said that you get the same results day or night so I have to assume the issue isn't just transient weather conditions. To see if the issue is caused by the heavy JPEG compression of the transmitted thumbnails, you could just pull the full resolution 5mp images stored on your SD card and see if they are of good quality or not. If they are good quality then the issue is the high compression of the thumbnail and about the only thing you can do is get closer to you subject. If not, then the issue is related to your camera lens... either the cover glass has been snotted up by a raccoon or the lens itself is defective (neither being out of the realm of possibilities).

 

[Johnson]

Because of the fact that a CMOS sensor's sensitivity to black flash (940nm) is only about 1/3 of the sensitivity to red flash (850nm) and the small size (0.3mp) and heavy JPEG compression of the transmitted thumbnail image I tend to draw the line for range with black flash at about 30ft max (preferably inside of 20ft). Getting adequate light down range beyond that point with black flash is a struggle and the small image scale of deer on the tiny thumbnail pics makes it a further struggle to get useful information. So I think you are pushing the limits of the black flash with this setup. If you want to try to push the flash down range further to get better illumination, try tipping your camera up about 1 or 2 degrees (not too much) and see if that doesn't help. Also, it appears that this picture was taken with the default setting of 'Far' for your IR Mode. You could switch the IR Mode setting in the Commands menu to 'Close' and it will give you a picture with a much more pronounced contrast (like the Bushy pic) that you may find more pleasing, but it may come at the expense of an apparent shortening of the flash range due to the higher contrast processing and a little more motion blur on moving subjects. The trade off is a personal preference thing.

That being said, my initial reaction to the picture you posted above was to suspect a little ground fog or high humidity because the thumbnail just looks more blurry and indistinct than what I normally get, but you've said that you get the same results day or night so I have to assume the issue isn't just transient weather conditions. To see if the issue is caused by the heavy JPEG compression of the transmitted thumbnails, you could just pull the full resolution 5mp images stored on your SD card and see if they are of good quality or not. If they are good quality then the issue is the high compression of the thumbnail and about the only thing you can do is get closer to you subject. If not, then the issue is related to your camera lens... either the cover glass has been snotted up by a raccoon or the lens itself is defective (neither being out of the realm of possibilities).

Thanks for the feedback and I'll bet the issue is the 940nm range. Flash range is listed at 100 feet for the G-5079 so hearing that 1/3 to 1/5 of that is realistic is pretty disappointing. I pulled Bushnell and Browning Dark OPs cameras and their range was no issue in these locations so I thought I would be in good shape. I can move these around on my property to locations where they are closer to trails or feeding areas.

So which IR camera from Cudde would you suggest to use to get good pictures at 60 feet?

 

[FredG]

So which IR camera from Cudde would you suggest to use to get good pictures at 60 feet?

Let me start with your last question first...

You currently have one G model cam with a PowerHouse black flash module (56 940nm LEDs driven by super-capacitors), one K model cam with a standard Dual Flash module (28 940nm LEDs & 28 850nm LEDs non-capacitor driven), and another G model cam with a standard Dual Flash module on the way. Both the G and K model cams accept modular flash assemblies (interchangeable) which can be swapped out on a whim in about 2 minutes. You might consider getting an 850nm PowerHouse flash module and Double Barrel Strobe module ($40 per module) so that you can test out all four of the available flash modules for image quality, flash range and animal disturbance to your own satisfaction before you make any further decisions on what gear to invest in. You don't have to buy a whole new camera just to test out the different flashes to determine which one of them has right combination of benefits, drawbacks and utility for you uses. That suggestion aside, the direct answer to your question is... without a doubt the best IR module for image quality at long range is the PowerHouse red (850nm).

Thanks for the feedback and I'll bet the issue is the 940nm range. Flash range is listed at 100 feet for the G-5079 so hearing that 1/3 to 1/5 of that is realistic is pretty disappointing. I pulled Bushnell and Browning Dark OPs cameras and their range was no issue in these locations so I thought I would be in good shape. I can move these around on my property to locations where they are closer to trails or feeding areas.

I didn't mean to imply that your G-5079 only has a range of 30-35 ft. That's just the max range that I consider to be useful for excellent image quality along with a useable image scale when viewing the small Cuddelink transmitted thumbnails.

Below is a photographic montage to hopefully show by example why I suggested above that you may want to experiment with changing your IR Mode from 'Far' to 'Close' and to tip your camera's aim up a little bit to possibly get some better results. On each of the 4 photos the green rectangle represents an approximation of the PIR detection zone and the amber rectangle represents the area that is used by the camera to determine the exposure settings for each shot (active light metering area). A split second prior to taking a picture the camera "looks" inside the amber rectangle and determines the appropriate exposure settings based upon the brightness of certain segments within that area. When you tip the camera up a little you are 'feeding' darker (more distant) areas into the active metering area and the camera will respond to this by lengthening the exposure and consequently increasing the apparent flash range. Also, you can readily see from the montage the difference in the image processing between the 'Far' and 'Close' IR Mode settings. Many people find the 'Close' setting more pleasing and it's worth noting that the higher contrast processing of the 'Close' setting gives the picture a look of more detailed definition and sharpness... more of an illusion or perception than a reality.

Keep in mind though that you only have so much tolerance at a given setting height to tip the camera up and increase the flash range. Obviously the tip-up limit is constrained by need to keep the PIR detection zone in a position to see your target critters.

 

[Johnson]

Thank you Fred.

I wasn't aware there are modular components so I'll give that some thought. That's a nice option.

Right now the cameras I have in use are all the G-5079s. I have a G-5055 in route. My Home Unit is the K-5796 and I have it about 30' in a tree on the highest point of my property where I pickup 2 cellular signal bars, which I believe should be fine to connect to AT&T but it's not functioning as a camera.

I'll try tilting the 940 units a bit. I'd like to keep my night cameras as stealthy as possible. I've watched mature bucks on this property ID and shy away from white flash and 840nm flash so I'm trying to stay DARK as possible and may have to concede night image distance capabilities or experiment moving a camera to different locations.

Does the front sliding cover affect image captures? I'm not sure I understand it's design.l

 

[FredG]

Does the front sliding cover affect image captures? I'm not sure I understand it's design.l

Yes, to this extent... When the slider is down the PIR detection zone covers the full width of the field of view per the diagram below (it actually laps over the edge of the field a little) and when the slider is up it restricts the PIR detection zone to the center green rectangle (labeled 'Centered').

The amber colored Exposure Metering zone is adjustable in the Commands Menu under the label of 'Zone' with 'Centered' and 'Wide' being the choices as diagrammed. Cuddeback recommends that you set the Zone to Centered or Wide to match the setting of the PIR slider on the front of the camera. There are exceptions to that rule though... such as when you have something very reflective (tree trunk, bright rock, etc) interacting with an edge of your metering zone and causing your flash range to be retarded. If changing the zone to 'Centered' eliminates the offending object, then by all means switch it even if your PIR zone is 'Wide'. Conversely, there are situations where you may actually want your flash range to be retarded and you can compose your view and the Zone setting to include a bright object to cause this to happen. Camera whispering!

 

[Johnson]

I tilted two cameras yesterday and we will see if that improves the flash distance. One of the 840 flash modules is on it's way and I have the Dual Flash camera in hand and will deploy that the next time I'm at the ranch.

I believe it would benefit the camera on the food plot IR MODE to be set to FIELD and I'll make sure the slider is up on that one and it's set to CENTERED.

Thanks again!

 

[Johnson]

Here is my camera layout:
Cameras #2-4 are 200-300' from Camera #1, the Home Unit.
Camera #5 is 1100' from Camera #1 but just 60' from Camera #7 (Repeater)
Camera #6 is 900' from Camera #5, 1200 - 1300' from Cameras #3 or #4.


In an attempt to improve signal strength to Camera #5, I added a Repeater (Model 1385) and set it up as a Repeater, Camera #7. It pulled a 80% signal in a ladder stand tree up at 20' and it's 20 yards from Camera #5.

- How do I get Camera #5 to link to #7 for improved signal?



- And is there a way to tell which camera is the Link to Camera #6? Camera #5 is the closest.

Last question ;)
I just received a NIB 1385 and it's DOA. The display doesn't show anything and it's not a battery issue.

- Is there a way to rest this unit?

Thanks For The Help!

 

[FredG]

- How do I get Camera #5 to link to #7 for improved signal?

The mesh network is going to build itself the way it sees fit and there is no way that I know of to make it connect up in a specific way. That being said, it may in its own sweet time recognize a better path through the repeater or it may be useful to reset camera #7 by either turning off the Cuddelink for a short period of time or resetting the camera by pulling the batteries and dissipating the internal capacitors by pushing buttons until the screen goes blank. This should force the camera to re-establish its link to the network and might be worth a try to nudge it into finding the repeater.

- And is there a way to tell which camera is the Link to Camera #6? Camera #5 is the closest.

There should be a plain text file on your home camera in the 400CUDDY directory named RF Trace. This file keeps a log of the RF activity coming into the home cam with date, time and location ID of the sending cam noted. While this file doesn't tell you directly where the transmission originally came from (assuming a hop) it does give you an indirect means of auditing how many pictures came in from each camera over some period of time. What you would look for is a camera that transmitted a number of pictures to the home cam that equals the sum of its own pics plus the sum of the pics from camera #6. That would be the relay cam. Or at least so I think. I've never explored using this file for this specific purpose and I could be totally wrong, but it would be the place where I would start.

EDIT: The more I think about this the more I think the above is probably BS! The home camera HAS to know where a transmitted file originated from or it couldn't put the thumbnail in the appropriate directory. I've never had a setup where a remote needed to make a hop through another cam so I don't know if there is anything within the RF Trace file that can get you the info you're looking for. Sorry for the brain fart on my part!

You could also turn off the Cuddelink on your cameras one by one until you lose contact with cam #6 but that could be a lot of walking.

Last question ;)
I just received a NIB 1385 and it's DOA. The display doesn't show anything and it's not a battery issue.

- Is there a way to rest this unit?

The only way I know to reset the camera is to pull the batteries and dissipate the caps and then reinstall the batteries.

 

[Johnson]

The mesh network is going to build itself the way it sees fit and there is no way that I know of to make it connect up in a specific way. That being said, it may in its own sweet time recognize a better path through the repeater or it may be useful to reset camera #7 by either turning off the Cuddelink for a short period of time or resetting the camera by pulling the batteries and dissipating the internal capacitors by pushing buttons until the screen goes blank. This should force the camera to re-establish its link to the network and might be worth a try to nudge it into finding the repeater.


There should be a plain text file on your home camera in the 400CUDDY directory named RF Trace. This file keeps a log of the RF activity coming into the home cam with date, time and location ID of the sending cam noted. While this file doesn't tell you directly where the transmission originally came from (assuming a hop) it does give you an indirect means of auditing how many pictures came in from each camera over some period of time. What you would look for is a camera that transmitted a number of pictures to the home cam that equals the sum of its own pics plus the sum of the pics from camera #6. That would be the relay cam. Or at least so I think. I've never explored using this file for this specific purpose and I could be totally wrong, but it would be the place where I would start.

EDIT: The more I think about this the more I think the above is probably BS! The home camera HAS to know where a transmitted file originated from or it couldn't put the thumbnail in the appropriate directory. I've never had a setup where a remote needed to make a hop through another cam so I don't know if there is anything within the RF Trace file that can get you the info you're looking for. Sorry for the brain fart on my part!

You could also turn off the Cuddelink on your cameras one by one until you lose contact with cam #6 but that could be a lot of walking.


The only way I know to reset the camera is to pull the batteries and dissipate the caps and then reinstall the batteries.

Thanks Fred. The path info. would be nice to know to help manage places like this where terrain and forest density is heavy. I'll experiment with placement for the repeater and see what happens.

I'm about to start adding cameras much further away from the Home Unite and I'm sure I'll learn more about placement and Repeaters.

I'm also considering updating to Gen 2 8.0 for remote device control and the improved performance. Do you have any experience with the new software?