A Thanks to all you guys

With all of that I almost had a jeff sturgis flashback.:eek:

It covers both beginner and us MO's! Got it!
When you mentioned ramblings that you couldn't understand in a book I immediately thought of Sturgis. I like is articles and videos buck couldn't read his book.

My coworker had a consultant at his property this year. He was really happy so far, we will see if he kills a buck.
 
When you mentioned ramblings that you couldn't understand in a book I immediately thought of Sturgis. I like is articles and videos buck couldn't read his book.

My coworker had a consultant at his property this year. He was really happy so far, we will see if he kills a buck.

Here is the way I look at it. I have farms a do a boat load of work on to try and hold deer. And I have farms, one farm in particular, in Alllendale Missouri, I have not touched, other than a food plot of clover. What I am saying is this, buy in the right spot, with the right natural habitat in place, and you may not need a consultant at all! Sorry Steve!
 
Here is the way I look at it. I have farms a do a boat load of work on to try and hold deer. And I have farms, one farm in particular, in Alllendale Missouri, I have not touched, other than a food plot of clover. What I am saying is this, buy in the right spot, with the right natural habitat in place, and you may not need a consultant at all! Sorry Steve!

Location is everything. 75% of my bowhunting is done in MN. 25% in KS. I haven't killed a buck in MN since 2005. I've killed 7 in the last 8 years in KS, the smallest grossed 128. I do believe Steve's stuff will help most people though, and I will buy the book too because I like to read and I know I'll pick up a few things I haven't thought of. Our property in KS is basically 100 yard wide crick bottoms surrounded by corn and beans. The deer can bed anywhere, stand up, and walk 25 yards to food or water. We set up on funnels and also use decoys in our plots or just out in the stubble. Rut hunting is relatively easy, killing one outside of the rut is HARD. I'd love some insight on how to manipulate these deer outside of the rut.
 
Location is everything. 75% of my bowhunting is done in MN. 25% in KS. I haven't killed a buck in MN since 2005. I've killed 7 in the last 8 years in KS, the smallest grossed 128. I do believe Steve's stuff will help most people though, and I will buy the book too because I like to read and I know I'll pick up a few things I haven't thought of. Our property in KS is basically 100 yard wide crick bottoms surrounded by corn and beans. The deer can bed anywhere, stand up, and walk 25 yards to food or water. We set up on funnels and also use decoys in our plots or just out in the stubble. Rut hunting is relatively easy, killing one outside of the rut is HARD. I'd love some insight on how to manipulate these deer outside of the rut.

Yep we own over a mile on a small river in Missouri. This is the farm I have not had to touch other than a clover plot. Not to tough to catch a rutting buck cruising this place. I have been wanting to sell this place, but I am having to much fun for 2 weeks a year here!

Allendale.PNG
 
Sorry Steve!

No reason to say sorry to me, MO. I stopped doing the one time on site consults a year an a half ago already (That was a decent $ maker, but time away and being embarrassed every time I told someone new that it'd be 2K + all expenses made it easy to retire from doing them). I flat out love the long term management I do, but am not looking for any new clients there, as I can only handle 4-5 properties and have been booked for over 10 years now. The only thing else I do are the photo evals, but I really just do them as a thanks, because I can and because I enjoy doing them. There's enough people here I've done plans for that can back me up on this...Ask them if they feel I actually made any $ off them at all. I turned down a ton of magazine work this year, paying between 500-750 an article, and I can do an article in a day. I spend on average a week total on each photo eval plan I do and am charging $500. The write up alone I've been doing for them is about as many words as 3 articles. If/when I stop doing them, I'll get a good annual bump in pay.

If you guys want to say sorry to anyone, it should be to those that bought photo plans from me. As it applies to my clients, this debate has always been built on a faulty premise that the landowners feel they "need" help. Most of them don't and they know it. Well over half that get photo evals from me are already killing the snot out of good bucks. In fact, it's VERY safe to say that 13 out of the 21 clients I had this past year belong in the top 5% of managers and hunters I know. They don't "need" anyone's help. Heck, some of the clients I've had have killed more booners than I ever will. Though the reasons range, the most common is that they are paying me about the cost of putting in a food plot because they feel I can help take their game up another level, believe I can give them a new perspective on their ground and give them confidence in a plan, but they were consistently taking slob bucks off their place before and would have continued without any involvement from me...If I'm one of those guys, this stuff gets a little insulting after a while, as they don't "need" any of our help.
 
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Most people don't need help Steve, but they want reassurance they are doing things correctly before they decimate their woods. That is where your $500 plans come in! I think the price is reasonable and gives the landowner the confidence he needs to start! JMO
 
For somewhere over half of the people I do plans for, that's exactly it, MO, along with looking another edge/advantage and another perspective. I don't want to name names, as I can understand why many would rather no one knows they ever hired a consultant (whether it's someone to come out to their place or a photo eval from me). Look at how they get beat up on and belittled on the forums so often. I have no desire or right to "out" them to make a point. So, I'll just stick to Chainsaw from the QDMA forum, since he has posted that I did a plan for him. That guys is impressive as h311. Between trapping, hunting, logging and messing around with improvements on his own, he has spent 50-60 years doing this stuff. Because of where he lives, he isn't killing stupid big bucks every year, but that man is the definition of the term "woodsman." Frankly, there were two or three things that came up that I flat out told him not even to bother to ask for my input, as "you've forgot more about it than I can pretend to know," and it wasn't like I didn't feel I knew quite a bit on those subjects. I even stole one of his ideas and started using it myself ("selective thickening"). People like him make up over half my photo eval clients.

Sure, there are others that feel they actually "need" help. I personally think it's admirable that they are taking whatever steps they're most comfortable with in getting it. All of this just isn't as black and white as it's painted, and those most often doing the painting have never hired anyone to do any of this stuff and just guessing on the motivations and process.

Sorry if I'm coming off a little snippy on this. If you haven't figured it out yet, I'm a big cheese ball (my wife and kids are always telling me how cheesy I am). By the time I'm done working with 90% of these people, we're friends. There's a husband and wife from Nebraska, both DANG good hunters, that I have never met and haven't ever even talked to the wife, yet I could call them today and they'd put me up in their home for all of Nov and be happy to let me have the run of their place. That's one of somewhere over 30 situations like that. As I said, I know I'm a cheese ball, but how don't you love them for that? They and at least 6 others that fit that description lurk here and on QDMA. Every time someone goes off on this, my hackles rise as I can't help but view it as my "friends" being insulted for no reason, and mostly the insults are horribly inaccurate (all of this has next to nothing to do with anything posted in this thread....just going off on a rant). If feeling that way about "friends" and those so willing to do so much for me, expecting nothing in return, makes me a cheese ball, I'll wear it proudly.
 
Yep we own over a mile on a small river in Missouri. This is the farm I have not had to touch other than a clover plot. Not to tough to catch a rutting buck cruising this place. I have been wanting to sell this place, but I am having to much fun for 2 weeks a year here!

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One more thing to consider and I'll get off my soap box. You can't tell me that way over half of the people here didn't have the same two locations literally leap off that photo and scream potential killer stand locations (the hidden food plot on the east side, about half way down and the pinch before the bigger piece of timber on the N end). Unless there's a topography issue, odds are extremely good that one could set a couple stands in both those locations to create a couple good winds for each spot and kill the snot out of bucks there every year. Frankly, if there is only one person hunting the place, they'd probably be perfectly fine doing nothing more than that and would fill both buck tags every single year.

What if the owner really got more of a thrill out of making their ground hold and grow deer than killing them? I'm NOT going to be able to increase their buck kill, period. They're already killing 2 great bucks a year and can't kill any more. They could hold more deer on that ground and likely do things to increase their health. they also could do things to get them to waste more time on that ground, increasing the odds of the super stud young bucks they pass being there again next year (just talking odds, mind you). IMO, is it worth it for that land owner to pay me or anyone else to help them with that ground? Absolutely not, if it's just 1 guy and all he cares about is killing a couple good bucks a year. It may make a lot more sense though, if managing deer and the ground is as or even more important to that guy than killing his 2 bucks a year. Is it worth it? That's a question I can't answer. What I can say is that at the end of every photo eval I've ever done, I offer the client a full refund, if they are disappointed in any way. I've never been taken up on that once. So, they must feel it is.

The point is that there is not just one reason people do this. There's a bunch of reasons.

As a side note, I agree completely that location is a big deal. I think one can make a strong argument that it's the biggest deal, though the bucks Brooks was picking up on cam this year before he sold the property we were working on and a bunch of other clients with ground in "meh" areas can mount a legit counter argument. That said, I'd be lying if I pretended location doesn't offer huge advantages and disadvantages or that I can transform any 40 out there into a P&Y producing factory.
 
^ along these lines.....I tell my family that we don't have the very best hunting available here....and if you want to go on a trophy hunt....go for it. But....just like our shopping..... we have pretty good hunting. Hunt happy. ;)


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Looking for some good winter reading this year so I'm looking forward to getting a copy after my elk hunt.
 
Check is being sent.
I suggest you don't say too much about Brooks picture being in the book. It might sell better if you keep that quiet.

Just make sure some of those checks from Sandbur aint made out for "rain dance" services.....or have my name on 'em. He's been holding out on me for some time now.....and he's gotta be laundering that money somehow......it can't all go for beer. ;)
 
Just make sure some of those checks from Sandbur aint made out for "rain dance" services.....or have my name on 'em. He's been holding out on me for some time now.....and he's gotta be laundering that money somehow......it can't all go for beer. ;)
I bet some bought some good whiskey, or it should have.
 
I bet some bought some good whiskey, or it should have.
We don't buy whiskey in stores in these communities.

We only buy locally produced, organic medicine.
 
Just make sure some of those checks from Sandbur aint made out for "rain dance" services.....or have my name on 'em. He's been holding out on me for some time now.....and he's gotta be laundering that money somehow......it can't all go for beer. ;)

You got to increase liquid intakes with this heat.... especially when trying to supervise overzealous rain dancers.:D
 
We don't buy whiskey in stores in these communities.

We only buy locally produced, organic medicine.

Art's hooch likely comes in a Mason Jar.....and its distilled as some crab-apple "shine" over near Buckman. ;)
 
Art's hooch likely comes in a Mason Jar.....and its distilled as some crab-apple "shine" over near Buckman. ;)
I hope that is true at some day in the future.
 
We don't buy whiskey in stores in these communities.

We only buy locally produced, organic medicine.
Hey now, I resemble that remark!
 
Just tried a buddies "apple-pie" a few weeks ago. The pint jar lasted about 10 minutes.
 
Hey guys. I know I've said a handful of times how much I appreciate you all directly/purposefully and indirectly/accidentally supporting my career. I've also mentioned that the learning sure isn't a one way street with me here. I've picked up a handful of new ideas, had my eyes opened to a bunch of different ways of looking at things and you all have done way more than you'll ever realize or I can put in words to explain how you've helped show me the most effective ways to articulate all sorts of stuff (i.e. when I didn't include addressing _____ in a post, virtually no one understood what I meant, but including it made all the difference in the world. If some of the best habitat guys around didn't get it without that inclusion, how in the world can I expect your average habitat guys to get it....all sorts of stuff like that).

Anyway, I'm going to put my $ where my mouth is. I just finished my habitat book a couple weeks ago. It's 80,000 words, an almost ridiculous number of picture, including a bunch of real world and a few made up plans, full color and hard cover. The link at the bottom is for Amazon's preorder page (DON'T buy it there, unless you want to spend $10 extra for no reason...I just included it to show the book is real, or will be once the publisher is done). Its 15 chapters, not counting the Acknowledgements and intro, divided into 3 section: how to hunt managed ground (not how-too hunting, but how-too hunt managed ground without the deer knowing you're there), how to manage the habitat and a smidge on how to manage deer. I tried not to spend much time on things that have already been written on to death. For example, there's only one chapter on planting food plots, and the portion dedicated to traditional planting methods only makes up 10ish % of that chapter, as there are already all sorts of great resources available on how to plant food plots. I had no desire to waste space on things already readily available. Instead, I tried to focus as much as I could on things I find important that everyone doesn't either already know or could find quality info on without much digging.

Flat out, this book is at least twice as good as it would have been if I hadn't known you guys for this long.

So, here's what I'm going to do. The price for me to buy my own book is going to be in the low 20s. Anyone of you that want it, send me a check for $25 and I'll sign and send it when it arrives (likely in Mid December). That way, my costs and shipping are covered, but I won't be making a cent on it (I don't get royalties on any books I write that I buy myself). Since you all made this book so much better than it otherwise would have, by being so invaluable in teaching me the level one needs to get to for others to understand, as well as needing to mention so many exceptions and such, I feel the least I can do is give it to you at my true cost.

Absolutely no worries if you don't want it (no B.S., this is really meant as a thanks). If you do, send $25, along with the address you want it shipped to and name to sign it too (or if you don't want it signed) to the address below. I won't even cash them until the books ship (so, don't expect the checks to cash before some time in Nov or Dec).

Steve, I would like to purchase one of these books, but I feel very guilty of purchasing it directly from you as I don't feel I've contributed enough to justify taking advantage of something like that. Plus I'm thankful for what you have done and realize that you need to make a living too. I would simply like to support you in your current and future endeavors.

Do you know when the book will be released yet? And where is the best place (online obviously) to purchase it?

Thanks again
 
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