WR/WW

"Throw and Mow" is often used as a general term for minimized or eliminated tillage without a no-till drill. There are lots of variations. You can surface broadcast seed, spray the field, and the mow it as the name sugests. The mowed dead vegetation acts as a mulch. This can be done with a field of weeds, but it is possible for the dead vegetation to be too thick. It works great if the previous summer crop was something like buckwheat that does not require gly. You can still use gly if there are weeds in your buckwheat you want to eliminate. Buckwheat desiccates quickly.

This is sort of analogous to overseeding RR soybeans with a cover crop once the leaves begin to yellow. The seed falls to the bare ground and then is mulched by the dead soybean leaves as they fall. This works great because you get good seed soil contact. With a weed field, you need to make sure the seed makes it to the soil. Cultipacking can really improve germination rates with T&M.

Other variations include raising a 3pt tiller so high that the tines are barely touching the top inch of soil. This chews up the weeds and disrupts them a bit. You sill need to spray to kill them, but enough disruption occurs that a small amount of soil is thrown on the weeds. The microbes aid in decomposing it and the small amount of exposed dirt helps with seed soil contact. Again cultipacking really helps.

In most soils , you can't do this with just any seed. You need to choose seeds that surface broadcast well. WR is great and so are small seeded brassica and clover. Buckwheat and sunn hemp are warm season annuals that T&M well if cultipacked. Some guys have success with larger seeds like beans and peas, but they don't work well with T&M variants in my soil.

Planting before a good rain, is always important, but more so when seeds are surface broadcast.

Weed height is less important than ground level thatch. You can't T&M into fescue or things that form a turf barrier between the seed and soil. Seed to soil contact is important. Planting after a crop that canopies is ideal.

Best of luck,

Jack
 
SwampCat, here in North Florida I've typically been waiting until early to even mid-October to plant my WR/WW. I haven't historically sprayed, but have tilled, planted larger seeds 1 to 2" deep, drug a chain fence over to cover seeds, then cast smaller seed such as clover and rape, then dragged one more time.

Would like to get away from tilling, but don't have a no-till drill.

MUCH appreciate hearing your steps for throw-and-mow in SW Arkansas -- questions I can think of are:

1) Does the order follow the name "throw and mow" so that you're casting seed then simply mowing over it?
2) How tall is the vegetation you are cutting to cover the seed? Ask as my weed base gets quite tall, so wondering if in future should time a mow in the summer aiming for a specific grass / weed height (if there is an ideal height).
3) If you're planting a mix of seed types (such as cowpeas, WR/WW, and clover seeds) do you find they all can grow with a single "throw and mow" effort?

VERY curious for any insight you can offer -- may well look at a drill some point down the line, but not likely to do so in the next month.

I “planted” into a pretty thick covering of three foot tall weeds. Spread wheat at 100 lbs per acre and durana clover at 10 lbs per acre and bush hogged close. After shot is in spring. Clover came on very well - but I didnt mow it this summer, so going to throw n mow into it again in a few weeks.
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A little over two weeks earlier than planned, but if everything comes together, I will be taking 1/2 day off and going to sling our seed tomorrow afternoon before TS Beta rolls through. The problem will be if we have our typical extended dry October.
 
Got all of the plots over seeded and have had good rain on them today with more coming. Hopefully we get some more in the near future.
 
The same place that was $49 for 50# last year is where I will be picking up 400# at $21 50# tomorrow.
I was working on an idea to help get seed to guys like you, but frankly it isn't needed. Get on the phone with the guys at Green Cover Seed and talk to them about shipping a pallet. Whether it's got 1 bag on it, or 40, it ships for the same price. Work out the logistics on where to receive it and you can save yourself all the headache and a bunch of money. I've looked at ordering up to 3 seasons (spring/fall/spring or fall/spring/fall) worth of seed at once and just eating the pallet price once.

You'd sit on some seed for up to a year, but if it's that hard to get it, it might be worth it. Then you can get better prices and access to all the seeds you wish were carried locally. I've found about ten bags is what it takes to get the value out of it. That also accounts for no value in finally being able to get what you've always wanted. You could get $25/bag soybeans, $25/bag corn, etc. They aren't great as stand alone crops, but they are fantastic in mixes.
 
I was working on an idea to help get seed to guys like you, but frankly it isn't needed. Get on the phone with the guys at Green Cover Seed and talk to them about shipping a pallet. Whether it's got 1 bag on it, or 40, it ships for the same price. Work out the logistics on where to receive it and you can save yourself all the headache and a bunch of money. I've looked at ordering up to 3 seasons (spring/fall/spring or fall/spring/fall) worth of seed at once and just eating the pallet price once.

You'd sit on some seed for up to a year, but if it's that hard to get it, it might be worth it. Then you can get better prices and access to all the seeds you wish were carried locally. I've found about ten bags is what it takes to get the value out of it. That also accounts for no value in finally being able to get what you've always wanted. You could get $25/bag soybeans, $25/bag corn, etc. They aren't great as stand alone crops, but they are fantastic in mixes.
Did you get a quote on pallet price shipping? I talked to Welters about pallet shipping before I feel like it was like $250.
 
Did you get a quote on pallet price shipping? I talked to Welters about pallet shipping before I feel like it was like $250.
They told me they could get a pallet from southern Nebraska to anywhere in Wisconsin for $65. That was a couple years back. Some other places in the midwest it was $100.
 
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They told me they could get a pallet from southern Nebraska to anywhere in Wisconsin for $65. That was a couple years back. Some other places in the midwest it was $100.
I would take that all day and order all kinds of seed. I have no issues planting year old seed. I will have to ask GCS about pallet shipping because I want to plant their 13 way soil builder next year and the 65 lbs was already going to be $65 for shipping. Might as well catch a pallet and get the fall grains, winter peas etc. thx for the info.
 
I was working on an idea to help get seed to guys like you, but frankly it isn't needed. Get on the phone with the guys at Green Cover Seed and talk to them about shipping a pallet. Whether it's got 1 bag on it, or 40, it ships for the same price. Work out the logistics on where to receive it and you can save yourself all the headache and a bunch of money. I've looked at ordering up to 3 seasons (spring/fall/spring or fall/spring/fall) worth of seed at once and just eating the pallet price once.

You'd sit on some seed for up to a year, but if it's that hard to get it, it might be worth it. Then you can get better prices and access to all the seeds you wish were carried locally. I've found about ten bags is what it takes to get the value out of it. That also accounts for no value in finally being able to get what you've always wanted. You could get $25/bag soybeans, $25/bag corn, etc. They aren't great as stand alone crops, but they are fantastic in mixes.

Good info and I will look into it.
 
On the winter rye cereal grain, how does the growth cycle typically work? Meaning, what timeframes does it usually take to get to certain heights? I had them sprouting in about 5 days or so. Currently about 3" tall. Does it usually hold there until spring, or will it continue to get taller through the fall?
 
All depends on temperature, moisture, and soil nutrients. Mine is generally 4-5' tall and headed out in early July.
 
On the winter rye cereal grain, how does the growth cycle typically work? Meaning, what timeframes does it usually take to get to certain heights? I had them sprouting in about 5 days or so. Currently about 3" tall. Does it usually hold there until spring, or will it continue to get taller through the fall?

I agree with ST that I've seen WR thin and 2' tall at maturity and thick and 6'+ in other places. The general cycle is this. You plant it in the fall. In my area (zone 7a), If WR is my only concern, I'd plant with rain in the forecast after labor day. It will be a few inches tall and very attractive during our October archery season and remain attractive through the end of our gun season in early Jan. It usually does not get very tall. It can be planted in a wide variety of rates, alone, as part of a mix, or as a nurse crop for clover. It will grow a little during warmer periods throughout our winter and be eaten by deer.

When used as a nurse crop for clover, it can be managed differently in the spring depending on the clover. For a fast establishing clover, it can be planted at a lighter rate and just allowed to mature naturally in the spring. For a slow to establish clover like Durana, it can be planted thicker and then mowed back to 6" or so each time it gets over a foot. This releases the clover slowly allowing the WR to fight summer weeds while the clover is putting down a root system. It eventually dies naturally in the summer. It may or may not form heads when managed this way but it won't get tall because of the mowing.

When planted alone or as the primary component of a mix, we usually let it grow until we are ready to plant for summer or the following fall. It greens up pretty early in the spring but soon becomes tough. At this stage, deer don't eat it much if at all. It is still great bugging ground for turkey. If we are planting for summer, the size and stage of the WR depends on when we plant. It can be killed with gly or crimped when no-till planting in the spring for summer. If we are not planting for summer, it will grow tall and form seed heads. The seed heads are used to some degree by deer and by turkey if they can reach them. Some folks will wait until fall planting time and mow it. You will often get a volunteer crop from the seed heads this way. Again, the final height will depend on the soil fertility and amount of rainfall and the thickness will depend on the planting rate.

Thanks,

Jack
 
My deer mow it down all fall, and keep it below 3 inches, then come the spring thaw, and the winter rye is already green under the snow, and deer are digging for it. by May, it is 6-10 inches tall, and by July, it is 5-6 feet tall. Deer pretty much stop eating it about when it is a couple feet tall, but the the does, and new born fawns bed in it, until I chase them out in July when I start over and plant a summer crop.
 
It will also more than likely largely depend on deer numbers and available surrounding food. It doesn't get much use for me so it may grow faster than if you are in an area of high deer numbers and a lac of ag.
 
Perfect. Thank you.
 
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