The Woods ... mistakes I'v made

I placed my pear seed container in front of a heat register; got my 4th germinated seed and another that appears to possibly be opening. Germinating pear seeds appears to be
somewhat of a long and somewhat arduous process. None of the earlier germinating seeds has yet to appear above ground after being transplanted into a temporary growing container. Not sure I will get any trees out of this effort; oh well, there's always the big box store for more keifers on discount.
pear germ 4.png
 
My experiment was a total success; the 10 chestnuts (6 of which were green coming off the tree) all germinated in the refigerator. This may be useful information for those who prefer their chestnuts not be possibly contaminated from falling on the ground. When the first chestnuts on a tree appear ready for harvest (brown with burr opening) it is very likely you can pick others off the tree and they will ripen further. Attached is a photo of the 10 chestnuts (stuck them in a bag with a wet paper towel and literally forgot about them).

View attachment 23341
I have been doing that for oak and chestnu seed for a few years. They grow. Less chance of disease from the ground, too. I put a banana peel in a bag with them to speed ripening and to open the burrs.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/307577116010963/

It has been discussed at International oaks several times. The rare seed collectors there do it 2 weeks ahead of ripening to beat animals to them, etc.
 
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Shedder .... great post, nice tip on the banana ripening-agent. Thanks for contributing!
 
Good info guys. Thanks. My tree is now 18" diameter chest high. The neighbors' trees are basically goners at this point. Think I'll go ahead and order the Dominion 2L now so that come next year I don't forget again!

If you haven't treated the tree with anything this year, I would strongly encourage you to order either Dominion 2L or Zylam ASAP. it is definitely not too late to treat the tree this year and the sooner the better. With Dominion 2L, you can treat your tree for about $5; if you are serious about treating/saving your ash tree, I wouldn't give the ash bores another 10-12 months to attack the tree. Just friendly - and unsolicited - advice. Good luck my friend.
I treat around May 1st in Wi. I figure when trees are just popping out leaves, they must be taking up alot of water from the roots. This is my third year treating ash trees that are right next to my house. EAB just showed up here so glad the chemicals were already into the trees

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Today, another pear seed germinated; however, I can't - so far - get any of the germinated seeds to send up a tree when planted in a container of compost and lightly covered with small pieces of straw to maintain a moist environment. These little things appear to be very fragile … thinking about trying something like peat moss or a commercial potting
soil. Any suggestions appreciated.
pear germ 5.pngp
 
5 Characterisitics of an excellent White Oak habitat tree:
Why You Should Monitor Parent Tree Production

The ideal “soft-mast” white oak habitat tree probably demonstrates 5 key characteristics on a consistent basis. Just as persons display individual differences, oak trees undoubtably vary regarding the frequency of these 5 key characteristics. Listing them in a perceived/assumed order of importance finds frequency-of-fruiting at the top of the list. During any 5-year period, an oak tree might fruit from 0 among 5 to 5 years in a row… or some intermediate number of years (e.g., 3 or 4).
Number and size of nuts produced are probably number 2 and3 among the 5 characteristics; however, an argument could be made regarding which should be #2 (smaller number of bigger nuts vs a larger number of smaller nuts). I would submit the 4th key characteristics is drop time for the tree; ceteris paribus, a later drop time is superior to an earlier drop time (mid-November vs early-September .. might depend on bow hunting vs gun hunting and season start by region). Last but not least is the growth rate of the tree (fast grower vs slow grower). When one orders seedlings from sources like government agencies, its pot-luck or a crap shoot regarding these key characteristics of the parent tree since most – if not all – of the seeds for these seedlings are purchased from seed gatherers. One way to overcome the potential deficiencies of unknown-quality seedlings is to purchase oak trees from commercial suppliers like The Wildlife Group or Mossy Oak Nativ Nurseries; firms that frequently sell hybrid or natural selection (e.g., Bucks Unlimited at Forrest Keeling) trees that are marketed as possessing most-or-all of the 5 key traits.
A better or at least cheaper way, it seems to me, is to identify various species of oak trees in your community/area and survey these trees every fall to identify those which would make the best parent trees with regard to the 5 key characteristics. In a few years, and at most 5-6, you’ll know which oak trees in your area would make the best/better parent tree from which to gather acorns. For example, I have numerous Kindred Spirit col.-white-oak trees that have fruited for 5 years in a row. However, acorn size and drop times vary; eliminating some for consideration as parent/source trees.
I have a Bur Oak that fruits frequently (4 out of 5), produces lots of larger nuts and drops later than most of the other Bur Oaks in the area. Same with my best English Oak; this tree is only about 13 years old (fast grower with early – in life – heavy production), yet it has cranked out copious numbers of large (for an English Oak) acorns for the 6 years I have observed it. I could provide other examples like swamp white oaks, but you get the point. Some will argue they don’t have time … to survey trees on an annual basis or to wait 5 years to gather nuts and start trees (their age necessitates purchase of trees with known properties from commercial vendors). I have no argument with the latter issue regarding age; however, with regard to the other aspect of time, I believe surveying key oak trees in the fall takes less time than one might imagine.
Visit cemeteries, school yards – especially larger state universities, govt. building landscapes, arboretums, etc. and you’ll develop a list (as extensive as you want) of the locations of white oak trees by species. It takes reasonably little time to check on them starting in early fall.
The last thing, it seems to me, a habitat junkie wants to do is plant a bunch of oak tree and 12-15 years later find that many or most or poor producers. Will the semi-natural-selection model I have offered guarantee all of your trees will be great mast trees? NO, but it will provide good odds that many of them will be stellar performers. Good luck!
VERY sorry for long post; hope it is helpful!

P.S. I'm not saying wait 5 years before you gather seed and start trees; gather seeds and start trees this year in fall/spring … but over time you will determine better parent trees (you can replace trees grown earlier or supplement them with new stock).
 
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Visit cemeteries, school yards – especially larger state universities, govt. building landscapes, arboretums, etc. and you’ll develop a list (as extensive as you want) of the locations of white oak trees by species. It takes reasonably little time to check on them starting in early fall.

.......If you visit cemeteries to check out white oaks......

......you might be a habitat guy.......

bill
 
5 Characterisitics of an excellent White Oak habitat tree:

Why You Should Monitor Parent Tree Production

The ideal “soft-mast” white oak habitat tree probably demonstrates 5 key characteristics on a consistent basis. Just as persons display individual differences, oak trees undoubtably vary regarding the frequency of these 5 key characteristics. Listing them in a perceived/assumed order of importance finds frequency-of-fruiting at the top of the list. During any 5-year period, an oak tree might fruit from 0 among 5 to 5 years in a row… or some intermediate number of years (e.g., 3 or 4).
Number and size of nuts produced are probably number 2 and3 among the 5 characteristics; however, an argument could be made regarding which should be #2 (smaller number of bigger nuts vs a larger number of smaller nuts). I would submit the 4th key characteristics is drop time for the tree; ceteris paribus, a later drop time is superior to an earlier drop time (mid-November vs early-September .. might depend on bow hunting vs gun hunting and season start by region). Last but not least is the growth rate of the tree (fast grower vs slow grower). When one orders seedlings from sources like government agencies, its pot-luck or a crap shoot regarding these key characteristics of the parent tree since most – if not all – of the seeds for these seedlings are purchased from seed gatherers. One way to overcome the potential deficiencies of unknown-quality seedlings is to purchase oak trees from commercial suppliers like The Wildlife Group or Mossy Oak Nativ Nurseries; firms that frequently sell hybrid or natural selection (e.g., Bucks Unlimited at Forrest Keeling) trees that are marketed as possessing most-or-all of the 5 key traits.
A better or at least cheaper way, it seems to me, is to identify various species of oak trees in your community/area and survey these trees every fall to identify those which would make the best parent trees with regard to the 5 key characteristics. In a few years, and at most 5-6, you’ll know which oak trees in your area would make the best/better parent tree from which to gather acorns. For example, I have numerous Kindred Spirit col.-white-oak trees that have fruited for 5 years in a row. However, acorn size and drop times vary; eliminating some for consideration as parent/source trees.
I have a Bur Oak that fruits frequently (4 out of 5), produces lots of larger nuts and drops later than most of the other Bur Oaks in the area. Same with my best English Oak; this tree is only about 13 years old (fast grower with early – in life – heavy production), yet it has cranked out copious numbers of large (for an English Oak) acorns for the 6 years I have observed it. I could provide other examples like swamp white oaks, but you get the point. Some will argue they don’t have time … to survey trees on an annual basis or to wait 5 years to gather nuts and start trees (their age necessitates purchase of trees with known properties from commercial vendors). I have no argument with the latter issue regarding age; however, with regard to the other aspect of time, I believe surveying key oak trees in the fall takes less time than one might imagine.
Visit cemeteries, school yards – especially larger state universities, govt. building landscapes, arboretums, etc. and you’ll develop a list (as extensive as you want) of the locations of white oak trees by species. It takes reasonably little time to check on them starting in early fall.
The last thing, it seems to me, a habitat junkie wants to do is plant a bunch of oak tree and 12-15 years later find that many or most or poor producers. Will the semi-natural-selection model I have offered guarantee all of your trees will be great mast trees? NO, but it will provide good odds that many of them will be stellar performers. Good luck!
VERY sorry for long post; hope it is helpful!

P.S. I'm not saying wait 5 years before you gather seed and start trees; gather seeds and start trees this year in fall/spring … but over time you will determine better parent trees (you can replace trees grown earlier or supplement them with new stock).


I really enjoyed this post from you. Last year was the very first time I ever started paying attention to the exact things your talking about. I drive around Hutchinson looking for healthy oak trees that I want to collect from. The cemetery is on of my main spots. I may gather a couple hundred acorns this year and just walk around some of the logged land by us and push random acorns in with a stick. If Im lucky enough to be alive 20-30 or 40 years from now I just might be able to put my hands on something. Love the idea of finding good parent trees and it something I have really been thinking about. Lots of oak here in MN seems to be dying at an alarming rate.
 
Buck, Glad you enjoyed the post; however, the idea that you are developing your own list of potentially good parent trees is great. I wish you the best of success and give me a shout if I can help in any way. Again, congratulations!
 
I've seen posts where folks ask if it is necessary for a acorn cap to be removed in order for the seed to germinate. I discovered something about the outer covering (shell) of English Oak acorns that led me to conduct a little experiment some folks might find interesting. Most descriptions of the parts of an oak tree acorn refer to a "tough leathery shell" that protects the nut embryo. After soaking a group of English Oak acorns in a container of water, I noticed several had split shells. My conclusion is that the shells of EOs might not be as tough and leathery as that of some other members of the white oak family. Sort of the opposite of the germination with a cap question, I wondered if acorns without a shell would germinate. You be the judge! :emoji_wink:english hydrate.jpggerminated english oaks without shells.png
 
^^^^^^^affirmative!!!!

bill
 
I have seen posts on habitat-related sites asking for help in identifying potential causes of dead chestnut trees, or chestnut trees that appear to be sick or dying. The following article may help some of us figure out what adverse condition/situation our chestnut tree(s) are experiencing. I found, for example, that Japanese beetles attracted racoons to my trees who, in turn damaged central leaders by climbing the trees in search of beetles. The article is one of the best I have encountered. Hope it helps others.
elsakristen.com/docs/chestnut_pest_guide.pdf …….. or google "chestnuts growers guide to pests and diseases"
 
I've spotted a few swamp white oaks that I'd like to collect acorns from this fall. These trees are about half an hour away from my house and I'd like to time it right for getting acorns collected. Can anyone tell me the approximate drop time for SWO? I am in Central New York.
 
I've spotted a few swamp white oaks that I'd like to collect acorns from this fall. These trees are about half an hour away from my house and I'd like to time it right for getting acorns collected. Can anyone tell me the approximate drop time for SWO? I am in Central New York.

I would shoot for the last 4 days in Sept. and the 1st week in October; even if the tree has dropped many acorns, you should still be able to get some fresh ones. Also, I'd be sure and take an 8-10 foot pole/stick/limb to swat lower limbs on the SWO trees to shake out acorns. If you have a truck, you might even take a small step ladder. While I've been in NYC several times, I live in the midwest and have little knowledge of average drop times for your area …. let alone an individual tree. Good luck … hopefully someone from your area can comment regarding their estimation of drop time for the trees in question.
 
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Here's what Purdue folks say about the importance of genetics with regard to oak trees …..

Purdue Extension
https://www.purdue.edu/fnr/extensio...ak-trees-to-identify-the-best-mast-producers/
Forestry & Natural Resources | Purdue Extension | Purdue Agriculture
Scout Your Oak Trees to Identify the Best Mast Producers

Quotes
"Some individual oak trees are inherently poor producers and rarely produce acorns even in a bumper crop. Whereas other individuals are excellent producers and may produce acorns even in the poorest year. Research from the University of Tennessee reported poor mast producing trees represented 50% of white oaks in a stand and produced only 15% of the white oak acorn crop in a given year, whereas excellent producing trees represented 13% of white oaks, but produced 40% of the total white oak acorn production."
When you included excellent and good producing white oaks together (31% of trees), they accounted for 67% of the total white oak acorn crop in a stand. This means a minority of the white oaks in a stand may produce a majority of the acorns!
Scouting oak trees
Understanding that some individual oak trees are poor producers, some are excellent, and some fall between poor and excellent, surveying oak trees can help identify important mast producing individuals.
The late summer and early fall, just prior to or at the beginning of acorn drop, are perfect times to identify the best and worst producing oaks in your stand of timber. Scouting can be as formal as conducting a mast survey or as informal as taking mental notes of oak trees with heavy crops of acorns on the ground while you are walking to and from your tree stands in the fall. Either way, scouting oaks for acorn production capability can provide more information when determining where to hunt in the fall or which trees to retain and which trees to remove during a timber harvest."
 
Today I came across a really nifty scrape/rub; would love to see the hombre that made it. It displays one of the best horizontal rubs I have seen on the property in question.
Hedge tree .... it should be there for a while! :emoji_fingers_crossed:

scrape & rub 2 2019.pngScrape & rub 2019.pngscrape & rub 3 2019.png
 
Two days ago I picked several green col.WO acorns off 2 trees …. 3 acorns were brown. Two days later (today) about half of the acorns have turned brown - or are well on their way - indicating ripening. I did this last year as an experiment - replicated this year - and all of the acorns from last year germinated. I will share my decision rule to the extent it may be helpful to others. In general, it appears the acorns on an oak tree are pretty mature when squirrels begin to eat them; I simply wait 6-7 days after the first sign squirrels are eating/gathering acorns before picking green ones off the tree. So far this strategy has worked quite well, especially on younger trees that produce limited acorns (squirrels can eliminate them in a hurry).
Attached photos show changes in 2 days.Picked green 1  2019.pngPicked green 2  2019.png
 
Folks have suggested using pallets for fence-type tree protection for oaks, chestnuts and other trees. This glass company offers 16' pallets free (would protect a tree for a lot of years) and it appears there might be enough there to do a couple of trees. Check with the glass replacement specialist in your area; who knows, they might even save them for you. Good luck!

https://peoria.craigslist.org/zip/d/peoria-large-pallets/7015940340.html
 
So I have not focused on any tree plantings or education in my early stages of habitat management. It seems like there is a big focus on acorns. Why not look for seedlings under the tree to transplant. Is that an option?
 
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