The Woods ... mistakes I'v made

[OakSeeds]

Yes ..,.. definitely .... IF .. you can find a tree with seedlings under it that you can remove. I have not found many viable seedlings under trees in mature woods (lots of critters get the acorns or deer nip the seedlings. On private property / government land you have the issue of permission, or if the grass/vegetation is mowed regularly (they ain't no seedlings).
For most of us it is probably easier to collect acorns and direct seed them or start them in some type of container. One other problem ... if the seedling you locate is very big, you will need a root ball sufficiently large - for a viable transplant - that you will create quite a hole in the ground (filling that hole is another thing in itself). I have heard folks say they have found small persimmons tree seedlings (from persimmon trees growing in small clusters in pastures or around old homesteads, etc) that they transplanted; however, I have no direct experience. Hope you find some.

 

[Cap'n]

So I have not focused on any tree plantings or education in my early stages of habitat management. It seems like there is a big focus on acorns. Why not look for seedlings under the tree to transplant. Is that an option?

I’ve done it before with success, but like all transplants some didn’t make it.
Lately I’ve been sawing off a green hawthorn limb and placing it over the seedlings, those long thorns help to keep deer and cattle from nipping the top, it’s natures barbed wire . The tree will be over 2 ft tall by the time it grows above the protective limb.

 

[OakSeeds]

I just posted this in the fruit tree section; also posting here to add one caution and leave it where I can easily find it if someone asks me about it in 12-20 months later (I get busy and forget where I posted things!)

Fertilizing is great, fertilizing EARLY is even greater!

I encourage you to try one thing with one tree as a comparison ... even select the worst runt you have, or better yet, try this when you plant your next pear tree.
First, take a 3' or 4' piece of 3-inch pvc pipe and drill 7-10 holes in the pipe in a 2-3 inch wide section on one side of the pipe starting at 4" from the bottom of the pipe and extending to 8" from the bottom of the pipe. This is your water pipe; to be used ANY time you water the tree. When you plant the tree, plant the pipe 12-15 inches away from the tree with the holes in the pipe facing the root zone of the tree. DO NOT drive the pipe in the ground AFTER you plant the tree; it will fill with dirt as you drive it into the soil and defeat the purpose of the pipe. The beauty of a water pipe is the efficiency of watering (and fertilizing) a newly planted tree since all the water goes immediately to the root zone with none on top of the ground to run off. After planting the tree and water pipe, now put a 3X4 or 4X4 piece of landscape fabric under the tree with an inch of pea gravel on top of the fabric. The next step involves the use of straw bales that have been out in the weather for a couple of years; you can slice 2-3 inch "bricks" off of them quite easily. The straw bricks insulate the tree ... preserving moisture during the hottest part of the summer and protecting young roots during the coldest part of the winter. In addition, they extend the growing season by keeping the soil temperature higher during late fall and early winter. Now, place hardware cloth, chicken wire or something around the trunk (I also include black landscape pots with the bottom cut out) and a larger cage around the tree to protect from deer. A mild fertilizer solution (provided early in the spring) and frequent watering (through the pipe) during the first year produce amazing results regarding the growth of a newly planted tree. It's a little more work up front ...... BUT well worth it if you want strong, rapid growth from newly planted trees. Good luck!

P.S. If you use a water pipe make sure you feed a weaker fertilizer solution when you water during the first year; when I first developed the water pipe idea, I scorched a couple of oaks and chestnut trees with too hot a solution going directly to the root zone! You dump 4-5 gallons of H20 on a tree through a water pipe during tthe middle of July (deep saturation) and it should be good to go until mid-september unless you have the hottest, dryest, and most windy August on record!




Reply


Report Edit Delete

 

[TreeDaddy]

Could you post a pic of that setup?

thanks,

bill

 

[OakSeeds]

Here are pictures of water pipes and installed pipes on young chestnut and oak trees before adding fabric, gravel, straw and trunk protection. I'll try to get additional photos of a complete install in the next couple of days; depoends on the weather if I can get to trees.**********************************************************************

 

[OakSeeds]

These are almost 4-5yr old (can't remember all for sure - too many trees) Kindred Spirit columnar white oaks after water pipes have been removed and new gravel has been installed over fabric. Probably will apply new straw bricks late next spring. In the first picture there is another tree to the right (2:30 o'clock position) that didn't get the growth enhancement treatment and has lots of competition in the form of additional vegetation. I'll clean it out this spring, give it some help and we'll see where it is at in 18 months.

 

[Bill]

Good stuff right there. Thanks oaks!

 

[No-Tox]

Here are pictures of water pipes and installed pipes on young chestnut and oak trees before adding fabric, gravel, straw and trunk protection. I'll try to get additional photos of a complete install in the next couple of days; depoends on the weather if I can get to trees.View attachment 27636View attachment 27637View attachment 27638View attachment 27639View attachment 27640**********************************************************************

How often are you putting water in the pipes during spring and summer?

 

[WeedyJ]

My grandfather used to to do that with empty Clorox bottles whenever he planted a bush!

 

[LEWI B]

Have done something similar to the water pipes years ago. I would be interested in your solution concentrate for fertilizing without burning up. That was my problem I could not get the ratios proper to give good growth without burning thanks

 

[OakSeeds]

Attached is a photo showing my three favorite plant foods for oaks and chestnut trees; all are appropriate for acid loving plants. While most who visit HT probably prefer a miracle grow product, I prefer Ultra Green for 2 reasons. First, it has the same composition as MG products, BUT at a much lower price (unless you catch MG on sale like some of these) ..... so it is much cheaper to feed lots of trees. Second, and more important to me, the one big cdifference is UG has a much greater portion of iron than MG .... iron is essential to acid loving plants to prevent chlorosis (yellowing of the leaves - notice how green the leaves are on the Kindred Spirit photos above). I start feeding young trees as soon as the frost is out of the ground (always by mid-March); I put 2 tbls of UG in a cat litter container (around 3 gal of H2O) and pour about 6 oz of the diluted fertilizer down the water pipe (i NOW, THE MOST IMPORTANT PART .... pour 2+ cat-litter-jugs of just H2O down the pipe to further dilute the solution and disperse it widely throughout the root zone (increase the amount of water if ground is dry because of low rainfall). A second feeding during the last week in May includes a 3 tbls concentration of UG/H2O in a cat litter jug. Again, 6 oz in each pipe and 3-4 gal of water (down the pipe) to follow. You feed like this, eliminate competition, and provide protection for young trees, and you'll enjoy some great results. As a side note, at the cend of summer, I bought 10 lb bags of UG on sale at Lowes for $1 @. Finally, if you have soil with good drainage, it's almost impossible to over-water a tree during the hottest part of summer; consequently, when I have time I try to pour at least one cat-litter jug (my substitute for the old Army jerry (sp?) can) into the water pipe every 7-10 days during July-September. I believe adequate moisture is critical for trees for the first 2-3 years after planting. Obviously, I spend a lot of time in the woods; however, I have help on some properties.at results.

 

[OakSeeds]

A reminder ... This may have been mentioned on other threads, so if I missed it/them please excuse me for being redundent. Now is an almost perfect time for fertilizer application on oaks and chestnut trees. Since I use a lot of liquid fertilizer, I like to apply it right before a rain if possible. With rain forcast for the midwest on Monday and Tuesday, late Sunday might be a good time for application.

 

[TreeDaddy]

A reminder ... This may have been mentioned on other threads, so if I missed it/them please excuse me for being redundent. Now is an almost perfect time for fertilizer application on oaks and chestnut trees. Since I use a lot of liquid fertilizer, I like to apply it right before a rain if possible. With rain forcast for the midwest on Monday and Tuesday, late Sunday might be a good time for application.

I planted 6 pear and 1 chestnut last week using your PVC technique for watering

If this works in my torrid summers, we may be on to something!

time will tell

bill

 

[OakSeeds]

Good for you Bil; I hope it works out great for you. As an aside, if I can help in any way, please give me a shout. Caveat ... don't use very much fertilizer during the first year, remember, you are slugging it right onto the root zone.
Had a busy day in the woods today; moved a couple of chestnut trees that were left in one of my nurseries; transplanted them, put down landscape fabric, and started fencing.
They were started using my gal-jug, direct-seeding method and even though they were crowded, produced outstanding root mass. I got good photos on my phone, but I'm having difficulty transferring to my email. I'll eventually get them moved and post photos for you.
Have a family event in San Antonio during the first week in July each year; love the Riverwalk and all the wonderful restaurants in a great city. 7th largest and growing like mad ... even if it gets HOT!

 

[OakSeeds]

Drove through one sanctuary today while transplanting several chestnut trees; ran somewhere between 20-30 does out of the thick 20+ acre woods. It appeared they exited in 3 groups; probably family groups. Should be great fawning cover.
A video of the race out into a bean field would have been outstanding. They will return soon because of the security. I try to limit how much I disturb them throughout the summer; it becomes a strictly involiate area after Sept. 1.

 

[OakSeeds]

The size and shape of oak and chestnut trees are often influenced by the way we grow them. For example, trees grown in tree-tubes usually exit the tube as long slender trees that may, or may not, be further pruned by the owner/arborist. The "specimum" or "street" trees grown by nurseries as 3-4-5 year old stock usually have been pruned one or more times (with regard to lower limbs). An open-grown tree, characteristic of oak savannas is best grown by direct seeding in the location where you want the tree. There are advantages and disadvantages to both; I often prefer open-grown trees as seed-trees or habitat trees (requires mosre $'s for cage protection) since they ultimately will have more limb structure / larger canopy in a shorter period of time. Plus, I like the overall "balanced" shape. It all depends on what kind of trees you prefer. Just a little different take on growing treees. The attached chestnut examples are either 3 & 4 yr old or 3.5 & 4.5 trees in a nursery area (I plant too many trees); heck, I can't remember!

How does a savanna differ from a woodland?
"Two major types of oak ecosystems in the Midwest are savanna and woodland. The essential character of an oak savanna is the presence of open-grown oaks. When a single tree grows isolated from all other trees, it does not face competition and its lower limbs are able to spread out and become large and substantial. A savanna oak generally develops in an open area where competition is reduced, which in the Midwest are usually prairies. Thus, oak savannas and prairies are closely linked ecologically as well as topographically."
closely linked ecolog

 

[TreeDaddy]

Paul Knox had a thread on oak savannas

i will look for the link

bill

 

[OakSeeds]

A water pipe experiment.

The little tree to the right of this Kindred Spirit is also a KS planted one year after the larger tree, but neglected badly (my bad). The attached photos show it's condition when I started this afternoon and what it looked like after I worked on it. You will notice it's planted in damn near a swamp; the ground is so saturated, water pools on top of the soil ... no problem this tree is a hybrid cross between a SWO X English col. oak .. H2O for couple of weeks no problem. I've positioned a photo to allow you to see both trees so you can see the larger tree - while older -is much larger. I'll use the water pipe - feeding each tree same amount to see if smaller tree can catch up in a couple of years. Also appears a mouse or rabbit worked on the lower trunk; should have been screened (again, my screw up)!
Another aspect of this situation is revealed by examining the larger KS tree; notice how the growth above the top of the white PVC marker is substantially larger/fuller than the growth below the top of the marker. The protective cage - which extends to the top of the marker is constraining growth of the tree (the portion of the tree inside the cage). Obviously, I need to replace the existing cage with one that is bigger. Again, my bad.

 

[OakSeeds]

It seems that posters sometimes comment on - or even lament - the more vertical nature of pear tree growth. As many on this site know, you can train/shape a pear tree just like you shape/train an apple tree ... at least until it gets 15-20 feet tall. Attached are photos of 3 pear trees - different ages - to show how tying limbs down - or using limb weights - can provide a more open structure to the tree. I put the pre-bloom photos up now because it is easier to see the more open structure before the tree is full of blooms.

 

[Troubles Trees]

I just posted this in the fruit tree section; also posting here to add one caution and leave it where I can easily find it if someone asks me about it in 12-20 months later (I get busy and forget where I posted things!)

Fertilizing is great, fertilizing EARLY is even greater!

I encourage you to try one thing with one tree as a comparison ... even select the worst runt you have, or better yet, try this when you plant your next pear tree.
First, take a 3' or 4' piece of 3-inch pvc pipe and drill 7-10 holes in the pipe in a 2-3 inch wide section on one side of the pipe starting at 4" from the bottom of the pipe and extending to 8" from the bottom of the pipe. This is your water pipe; to be used ANY time you water the tree. When you plant the tree, plant the pipe 12-15 inches away from the tree with the holes in the pipe facing the root zone of the tree. DO NOT drive the pipe in the ground AFTER you plant the tree; it will fill with dirt as you drive it into the soil and defeat the purpose of the pipe. The beauty of a water pipe is the efficiency of watering (and fertilizing) a newly planted tree since all the water goes immediately to the root zone with none on top of the ground to run off. After planting the tree and water pipe, now put a 3X4 or 4X4 piece of landscape fabric under the tree with an inch of pea gravel on top of the fabric. The next step involves the use of straw bales that have been out in the weather for a couple of years; you can slice 2-3 inch "bricks" off of them quite easily. The straw bricks insulate the tree ... preserving moisture during the hottest part of the summer and protecting young roots during the coldest part of the winter. In addition, they extend the growing season by keeping the soil temperature higher during late fall and early winter. Now, place hardware cloth, chicken wire or something around the trunk (I also include black landscape pots with the bottom cut out) and a larger cage around the tree to protect from deer. A mild fertilizer solution (provided early in the spring) and frequent watering (through the pipe) during the first year produce amazing results regarding the growth of a newly planted tree. It's a little more work up front ...... BUT well worth it if you want strong, rapid growth from newly planted trees. Good luck!

P.S. If you use a water pipe make sure you feed a weaker fertilizer solution when you water during the first year; when I first developed the water pipe idea, I scorched a couple of oaks and chestnut trees with too hot a solution going directly to the root zone! You dump 4-5 gallons of H20 on a tree through a water pipe during tthe middle of July (deep saturation) and it should be good to go until mid-september unless you have the hottest, dryest, and most windy August on record!




That is a really great idea! Especially since Phosphate and Potash can't get down to the roots unless liquidized first. At my location I can't water everything so I would imagine it could work against you if you don't have easy enough access to the plantings, or means to water everything through every dry spell if the pipe is permenant. Now you have given air direct access to the roots and drying out below grade when it otherwise would retain moisture longer I would think? Maybe not, just thinking out loud lol