Yates

[Native Hunter]

This is a good clean apple for me. Good crop this year and even bigger last year.

 

[Mortenson]

I speak for everyone when wondering about your trees. Could you mention drop times and any other notes? I know Mr. Wombles up here in IL has praised this tree also. Great pics NH.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Thanks for sharing Steve!
Got two b118 Yates set last yr. Hope they do as well as yours

 

[Native Hunter]

I speak for everyone when wondering about your trees. Could you mention drop times and any other notes? I know Mr. Wombles up here in IL has praised this tree also. Great pics NH.

Thanks.

Yes, this is a late Apple that will start falling in October and may go into November. Size is small and taste is very good. Seems highly resistant to all of the major diseases but will show some light CAR. This tree is on MM111.

This has always been a fairly popular apple in the South, but since the size is small it really hasn't been a commercial variety. It's popularity in recent years has increased in wildlife plantings due to its DR, reliability and late drop time. It keeps for months and is well liked for both fresh eating and cider. The apple originated in Georgia in the 1840s.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Native - Leaves look pretty clean, except for some bug munchies - no big deal. I was gonna pull the trigger on a Yates or 2 and haven't done it yet. I should find some room for a couple. Every report I've read on here by you, Wombles and a few others has been good. I wonder if TC has any brewing on standard rootstock like P-18, or Antonovka ?? I'd bite on either of those. Need big trees - bears.

 

[PoorSand]

Does anybody have Yates apple trees that have grown for several years in zone 4B or a harsher zone and survived the winters just fine?

 

[blueKYstream]

Native Hunter, I'm located near you. I've been stalking your posts trying to assemble a list of trees to plant and compare it to nurseries that have Yates and your other disease resistant cultivars available. Wildlife Group seems to sell apple trees on 118 or other root stock. I thought MM111 might be better for our soil, but I'm not sure. Cummins seems to have smaller trees (45% standard) in a few of the varieties. There's a nursery in Stanford, KY called Peaceful Heritage that sounds interesting and grows on MM111. I was wondering if what they say below on their website is true in your opinion. If true, I may just focus on pears. With so many trees, I can't babysit beyond the first few years (planting in clusters rather than orchard-type plantings makes it harder too):

"If you are wanting to grow organically or without using lots of sprays, pay attention to the varieties we note as "recommended for organic growing" and therefore disease-resistant and focus on these, even if you have never heard of the variety before. And, we absolutely recommend utilizing organic sprays every spring season for health and well-being of your trees including Surround, sulfur, copper, freshly made compost/garlic/comfrey "tea" as well as dormant oil every late autumn season. Trying to grow "organically" by not using sprays of any kind is wishful thinking that usually results in severely diseased trees with poor fruit quality."

Cultivars you note and where they are sold (Century Farms-CF, Peaceful Heritage-PH with inv updated on 1/1/18, Wildlife Group-WG):
Liberty - CF,WG,PH
Priscilla -
Arkansas Black- CF,WG,PH
Dozier Crab - WG (do you think I should skip out on other varieties of Crabapples and focus on the apple trees or just get this one?)
Yates - WG
Betsey Deaton -
Black Limbertwig - CF, WG (not sure if Black Twig the same tree)
Black Oxford -
Horse - CF

Based on research, these sound like possibilities. I wasn't sure what your thoughts were on these cultivars:
Winesap - PH
Sundance -
Enterprise - PH, WG
Not sure if Pink Lady (Cripp's) would work here but sounds interesting

 

[Native Hunter]

Native Hunter, I'm located near you. I've been stalking your posts trying to assemble a list of trees to plant and compare it to nurseries that have Yates and your other disease resistant cultivars available. Wildlife Group seems to sell apple trees on 118 or other root stock. I thought MM111 might be better for our soil, but I'm not sure. Cummins seems to have smaller trees (45% standard) in a few of the varieties. There's a nursery in Stanford, KY called Peaceful Heritage that sounds interesting and grows on MM111. I was wondering if what they say below on their website is true in your opinion. If true, I may just focus on pears. With so many trees, I can't babysit beyond the first few years (planting in clusters rather than orchard-type plantings makes it harder too):

"If you are wanting to grow organically or without using lots of sprays, pay attention to the varieties we note as "recommended for organic growing" and therefore disease-resistant and focus on these, even if you have never heard of the variety before. And, we absolutely recommend utilizing organic sprays every spring season for health and well-being of your trees including Surround, sulfur, copper, freshly made compost/garlic/comfrey "tea" as well as dormant oil every late autumn season. Trying to grow "organically" by not using sprays of any kind is wishful thinking that usually results in severely diseased trees with poor fruit quality."

Cultivars you note and where they are sold (Century Farms-CF, Peaceful Heritage-PH with inv updated on 1/1/18, Wildlife Group-WG):
Liberty - CF,WG,PH
Priscilla -
Arkansas Black- CF,WG,PH
Dozier Crab - WG (do you think I should skip out on other varieties of Crabapples and focus on the apple trees or just get this one?)
Yates - WG
Betsey Deaton -
Black Limbertwig - CF, WG (not sure if Black Twig the same tree)
Black Oxford -
Horse - CF

Based on research, these sound like possibilities. I wasn't sure what your thoughts were on these cultivars:
Winesap - PH
Sundance -
Enterprise - PH, WG
Not sure if Pink Lady (Cripp's) would work here but sounds interesting

First let me address the possibilities you listed at the end of your post. I have Sundance and Enterprise planted myself and feel there is a good chance that they will do well here. However, I didn't list them in my original recommendations, because I haven't seen them proven here yet. Both are still young, but I should be able to report on them in a couple more years. In fact, I'm experimenting with several apples I should be able to give an opinion on in a few more years.

Winesap can be grown successfully here with a spraying program like a commercial orchard would use, but isn't likely to do well without spraying, because it is very susceptible to SCAB and FB. I don't know much about Pink Lady, but I hear that it is very susceptible to FB and also affected by SCAB.

I don't think their instructions on spraying that you quoted are entirely true. People in KY have been successfully growing apples for centuries without any organic spraying. I know of trees over 50 years old that are still bearing apples and have never been sprayed. I'm certain that spraying and giving extra care to a tree is a good thing and that it may increase the life in many situations, but it is not something that is absolutely necessary. Look at my habitat thread and pictures of my apples. None of the apples in those pictures have been sprayed. However, I do agree with them that you should always go with nothing except cultivars that are known to be disease resistant. You save yourself a lot of grief that way. I'm willing to do some experimenting myself (like with the Northern Whitetail Crabs I planted) but it will be a cold day in Hell when you see me plant a Gala....

I have seen MM111 proven to be a good rootstock for me. I have some trees on B118 that look very nice but still are young, so no fruiting much yet. I think either of those are going to do well here as long as you don't put B118 in areas that are too wet. I would not plant anything that made a smaller tree. In fact, several of the trees I have planted in recent years were ones I set very deep on purpose, hoping they would take root above the rootstock and make a full sized tree.

Best wishes with your trees.

 

[NE PA QDM]

First let me address the possibilities you listed at the end of your post. I have Sundance and Enterprise planted myself and feel there is a good chance that they will do well here. However, I didn't list them in my original recommendations, because I haven't seen them proven here yet. Both are still young, but I should be able to report on them in a couple more years. In fact, I'm experimenting with several apples I should be able to give an opinion on in a few more years.

Winesap can be grown successfully here with a spraying program like a commercial orchard would use, but isn't likely to do well without spraying, because it is very susceptible to SCAB and FB. I don't know much about Pink Lady, but I hear that it is very susceptible to FB and also affected by SCAB.

I don't think their instructions on spraying that you quoted are entirely true. People in KY have been successfully growing apples for centuries without any organic spraying. I know of trees over 50 years old that are still bearing apples and have never been sprayed. I'm certain that spraying and giving extra care to a tree is a good thing and that it may increase the life in many situations, but it is not something that is absolutely necessary. Look at my habitat thread and pictures of my apples. None of the apples in those pictures have been sprayed. However, I do agree with them that you should always go with nothing except cultivars that are known to be disease resistant. You save yourself a lot of grief that way. I'm willing to do some experimenting myself (like with the Northern Whitetail Crabs I planted) but it will be a cold day in Hell when you see me plant a Gala....

I have seen MM111 proven to be a good rootstock for me. I have some trees on B118 that look very nice but still are young, so no fruiting much yet. I think either of those are going to do well here as long as you don't put B118 in areas that are too wet. I would not plant anything that made a smaller tree. In fact, several of the trees I have planted in recent years were ones I set very deep on purpose, hoping they would take root above the rootstock and make a full sized tree.

Best wishes with your trees.

I was naively unaware of the disease problems with gala. I have 2 or 3 trees that are gala. The lower branches all got cleft-grafted to other varieties but the tops remain as gala. Maybe I'll topwork them entirely this spring. I never liked gala apples, anyway....

 

[Native Hunter]

I was naively unaware of the disease problems with gala. I have 2 or 3 trees that are gala. The lower branches all got cleft-grafted to other varieties but the tops remain as gala. Maybe I'll topwork them entirely this spring. I never liked gala apples, anyway....

When I first started planting apple trees I was very naively unaware of several things. The biggest lesson I had to learn was the impact that dwarfing and semi dwarfing rootstocks have on the disease resistance (especially fireblight) on different cultivars. When you reduce the mature size of a tree and cause it to start flowering earlier than it would on its own roots, you have created the perfect storm. A highly resistant cultivar (such as Liberty) is still going to be okay under most circumstances. However, a marginal cultivar that showed moderate FB on its own roots, but still did well when grown as a full sized tree, may not fare very well when grown on dwarfing or semi dwarfing rootstocks.

This information is well known by most of the top apple experts, but it's not brought up much to the general public. Rootstocks are big money and selling apple trees is big money - not just for the people who sell them but also for universities and researchers. They have to be careful and not reveal too much information or it could throw a wrench in "The Force."

So much of it depends on where the apple is being grown. Gala might not be too bad in some places, but it would be doomed in my area without intense human intervention. It's a very disease prone cultivar that's affected by all of the major diseases. That's a nail in the coffin in KY for someone who doesn't spray.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native Hunter, I'm located near you. I've been stalking your posts trying to assemble a list of trees to plant and compare it to nurseries that have Yates and your other disease resistant cultivars available. Wildlife Group seems to sell apple trees on 118 or other root stock. I thought MM111 might be better for our soil, but I'm not sure. Cummins seems to have smaller trees (45% standard) in a few of the varieties. There's a nursery in Stanford, KY called Peaceful Heritage that sounds interesting and grows on MM111. I was wondering if what they say below on their website is true in your opinion. If true, I may just focus on pears. With so many trees, I can't babysit beyond the first few years (planting in clusters rather than orchard-type plantings makes it harder too):

"If you are wanting to grow organically or without using lots of sprays, pay attention to the varieties we note as "recommended for organic growing" and therefore disease-resistant and focus on these, even if you have never heard of the variety before. And, we absolutely recommend utilizing organic sprays every spring season for health and well-being of your trees including Surround, sulfur, copper, freshly made compost/garlic/comfrey "tea" as well as dormant oil every late autumn season. Trying to grow "organically" by not using sprays of any kind is wishful thinking that usually results in severely diseased trees with poor fruit quality."

Cultivars you note and where they are sold (Century Farms-CF, Peaceful Heritage-PH with inv updated on 1/1/18, Wildlife Group-WG):
Liberty - CF,WG,PH
Priscilla -
Arkansas Black- CF,WG,PH
Dozier Crab - WG (do you think I should skip out on other varieties of Crabapples and focus on the apple trees or just get this one?)
Yates - WG
Betsey Deaton -
Black Limbertwig - CF, WG (not sure if Black Twig the same tree)
Black Oxford -
Horse - CF

Based on research, these sound like possibilities. I wasn't sure what your thoughts were on these cultivars:
Winesap - PH
Sundance -
Enterprise - PH, WG
Not sure if Pink Lady (Cripp's) would work here but sounds interesting

I missed your question about whether or not Black Limbertwig and Blacktwig are the same cultivar. The answer is: no, they are two different varieties. CF lists Blacktwig as very resistant to CAR but doesn't elaborate on resistance to other diseases. Blacktwig is an apple fairly well known in some areas of the south. It's one I would likely be willing to experiment with someday if I found one on sale. Black Limbertwig has been an outstanding apple in all respects for me. Too bad the new road that came through destroyed mine!

 

[blueKYstream]

I got caught up in reading your other threads that I forgot to post my reply yesterday. That was a wealth of information! Thank you very much for that!

Do you think any of the other crab apples are worth the time, besides dozier, or just sticking to the disease resistant apple trees is best?

 

[Native Hunter]

I got caught up in reading your other threads that I forgot to post my reply yesterday. That was a wealth of information! Thank you very much for that!

Do you think any of the other crab apples are worth the time, besides dozier, or just sticking to the disease resistant apple trees is best?

Thanks. I appreciate that. I'm trying some crabs that I will report on down the road. One of them has had a small crop with zero signs of disease, but it takes more than one season for me to be convinced. That tree is called Eliza's Choice. It is a late dropper, so it seemed like a good one for me to try - so far so good.

There is a crab from WG called Callaway that has done great for me in terms of disease resistance and great fruit production. The problem is that it doesn't readily drop its fruit unless you give the tree a "shake" when you pass by. The little crabs have a great taste to humans and are nice in every respect, except that they don't fall without some help. I bought these from WG as Dolgos and figured out later that I didn't receive the correct cultivars. I didn't complain to them, because they have been good in all other respects. Anyone can make an occasional mistake at a nursery and get trees mixed up. It was only two trees, and I just give them a shake when I pass by mowing trails. I have another tree from WG which may actually be a Dolgo, but it hasn't fruited yet. I think that it is going to be good. It shown no problems with CAR or Scab. If it clears the FB test, I will be good with it.

I've not tried any of the crabs that some of our northern friends have had such good luck with (such as Kerr and Whitney). My guess is that these would work here, but I'm trying to focus more at the moment on apples that drop late in the year.

There is a wild crab that I had and we lost to the new road that I named Joe's Crab Shack. It was a great crab but mid season ripening. However, the guy who originally dug it (Joe) told me the other day that he is seeing sprouts come up at the spot the tree was originally found. If I can get over there and get another start on that tree, you would be welcome to it sometime. It has one inch red crabs that ripen mid season and are great for jelly. It's very reliable and shows no disease problems.

 

[blueKYstream]

Thanks. I appreciate that. I'm trying some crabs that I will report on down the road. One of them has had a small crop with zero signs of disease, but it takes more than one season for me to be convinced. That tree is called Eliza's Choice. It is a late dropper, so it seemed like a good one for me to try - so far so good.

There is a crab from WG called Callaway that has done great for me in terms of disease resistance and great fruit production. The problem is that it doesn't readily drop its fruit unless you give the tree a "shake" when you pass by. The little crabs have a great taste to humans and are nice in every respect, except that they don't fall without some help. I bought these from WG as Dolgos and figured out later that I didn't receive the correct cultivars. I didn't complain to them, because they have been good in all other respects. Anyone can make an occasional mistake at a nursery and get trees mixed up. It was only two trees, and I just give them a shake when I pass by mowing trails. I have another tree from WG which may actually be a Dolgo, but it hasn't fruited yet. I think that it is going to be good. It shown no problems with CAR or Scab. If it clears the FB test, I will be good with it.

I've not tried any of the crabs that some of our northern friends have had such good luck with (such as Kerr and Whitney). My guess is that these would work here, but I'm trying to focus more at the moment on apples that drop late in the year.

There is a wild crab that I had and we lost to the new road that I named Joe's Crab Shack. It was a great crab but mid season ripening. However, the guy who originally dug it (Joe) told me the other day that he is seeing sprouts come up at the spot the tree was originally found. If I can get over there and get another start on that tree, you would be welcome to it sometime. It has one inch red crabs that ripen mid season and are great for jelly. It's very reliable and shows no disease problems.

That's very generous of you! It sounds like crab apples, or at least the ones you've tried, have fared well overall from a disease standpoint! It seems to me that crabs hanging on the tree might be better suited for coons, squirrels, possums, crows, etc. rather than deer. Some of the deer I've seen pictures of on your place are huge, so I'm sure there's plenty to spare there! I am dreaming of putting a bunch of apples near the house on one of my two connecting farms (450ish acres), but there are cattle rotated through there (right half of picture). I can protect the trees from cattle, but I'm debating if they just wouldn't eat the whole crop when they are rotated into those fields. I still have other spots in mind, but it would be nice to be able to put some near the house. I think I might take the chance anyways.

I'm thinking I shouldn't plant in too many other spots (I planted 50 chestnuts and 100 persimmon last year shown in green). I fear I may get "too many" feeding areas if I opened up new areas to plant. Are your trees concentrated in few spots or relatively scattered about your land?

 

[Native Hunter]

That's very generous of you! It sounds like crab apples, or at least the ones you've tried, have fared well overall from a disease standpoint! It seems to me that crabs hanging on the tree might be better suited for coons, squirrels, possums, crows, etc. rather than deer. Some of the deer I've seen pictures of on your place are huge, so I'm sure there's plenty to spare there! I am dreaming of putting a bunch of apples near the house on one of my two connecting farms (450ish acres), but there are cattle rotated through there (right half of picture). I can protect the trees from cattle, but I'm debating if they just wouldn't eat the whole crop when they are rotated into those fields. I still have other spots in mind, but it would be nice to be able to put some near the house. I think I might take the chance anyways.

I'm thinking I shouldn't plant in too many other spots (I planted 50 chestnuts and 100 persimmon last year shown in green). I fear I may get "too many" feeding areas if I opened up new areas to plant. Are your trees concentrated in few spots or relatively scattered about your land?
View attachment 22108

They are concentrated in a few spots that I can see well from my primary hunting blind. I can’t see every individual tree well but can see deer movement around the trees.

Cattle can be hard on fruit trees. They will eat all of the limbs they can reach and will tear down your cages unless you build them extra strong.

 

[blueKYstream]

Having a few spots located around your blind would be ideal. I think I need to keep the spots limited as well. If I put them in with cattle, I will use t-posts with fence. I used tubes with the other trees I planted, but they were planted in mass. They took out a few of the trees, but the tubes protected most of them. I will use fencing to protect apples for sure.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native Hunter, I'm located near you. I've been stalking your posts trying to assemble a list of trees to plant and compare it to nurseries that have Yates and your other disease resistant cultivars available. Wildlife Group seems to sell apple trees on 118 or other root stock. I thought MM111 might be better for our soil, but I'm not sure. Cummins seems to have smaller trees (45% standard) in a few of the varieties. There's a nursery in Stanford, KY called Peaceful Heritage that sounds interesting and grows on MM111. I was wondering if what they say below on their website is true in your opinion. If true, I may just focus on pears. With so many trees, I can't babysit beyond the first few years (planting in clusters rather than orchard-type plantings makes it harder too):

"If you are wanting to grow organically or without using lots of sprays, pay attention to the varieties we note as "recommended for organic growing" and therefore disease-resistant and focus on these, even if you have never heard of the variety before. And, we absolutely recommend utilizing organic sprays every spring season for health and well-being of your trees including Surround, sulfur, copper, freshly made compost/garlic/comfrey "tea" as well as dormant oil every late autumn season. Trying to grow "organically" by not using sprays of any kind is wishful thinking that usually results in severely diseased trees with poor fruit quality."

Cultivars you note and where they are sold (Century Farms-CF, Peaceful Heritage-PH with inv updated on 1/1/18, Wildlife Group-WG):
Liberty - CF,WG,PH
Priscilla -
Arkansas Black- CF,WG,PH
Dozier Crab - WG (do you think I should skip out on other varieties of Crabapples and focus on the apple trees or just get this one?)
Yates - WG
Betsey Deaton -
Black Limbertwig - CF, WG (not sure if Black Twig the same tree)
Black Oxford -
Horse - CF

Based on research, these sound like possibilities. I wasn't sure what your thoughts were on these cultivars:
Winesap - PH
Sundance -
Enterprise - PH, WG
Not sure if Pink Lady (Cripp's) would work here but sounds interesting

blueKYstream, since you seemed to appreciate the fruit tree list, I have updated it and made it more comprehensive for you. I just started a new thread and hope you find the additional information useful. Some varieties I forgot to mention have been added as well as some failures and others still under evaluation.

 

[weekender21]

Having a few spots located around your blind would be ideal. I think I need to keep the spots limited as well. If I put them in with cattle, I will use t-posts with fence. I used tubes with the other trees I planted, but they were planted in mass. They took out a few of the trees, but the tubes protected most of them. I will use fencing to protect apples for sure.

I'm with you on the limited spots. I have several spots in mind that I'd love to plant fruit trees but not all of them pass the "sniff test" for morning access. I think walking near a fruit planting for a morning hunt isn't the best idea. Currently I have all my trees (fruit and nut) planted in two areas that total around an acre. I'm treading lightly locating additional spots for future orchards. A few of the areas I really want a few trees are also spots I want to hunt in the morning. I'm strictly bowhunting currently which makes it a little more complicated. Trying to slip within 20 yards of a dropping apple tree in the dark is risky!