Plowing/Disking in the Fall

I would challenge the folks that are doing tillage to do a worm sapling in your plots. Then do a sampling a short distance away in a native non tilled area. Worms are by far your best friend and best way to give your plants bio available nutrients. Deep tillage over a short period of time will kill many of the worms that are present in your fields. Minimum till kills far less and no till will kill none of them (unless your using synthetic commercial fertilizers). In the case of food plots the residue is not removed and is food for your earthworms. Most of the late summer planted food plot species do a great job at cycling nutrients and aerating the soil but they are only doing that for a relatively short period. Earthworms on the other hand are there doing it year round.
 
I would challenge the folks that are doing tillage to do a worm sapling in your plots. Then do a sampling a short distance away in a native non tilled area. Worms are by far your best friend and best way to give your plants bio available nutrients. Deep tillage over a short period of time will kill many of the worms that are present in your fields. Minimum till kills far less and no till will kill none of them (unless your using synthetic commercial fertilizers). In the case of food plots the residue is not removed and is food for your earthworms. Most of the late summer planted food plot species do a great job at cycling nutrients and aerating the soil but they are only doing that for a relatively short period. Earthworms on the other hand are there doing it year round.

Worms are a big deal! Can also do the "tighty whitey" test with your underwear to gauge your soil life.
 
Worms are a big deal! Can also do the "tighty whitey" test with your underwear to gauge your soil life.
If this isn't a joke can you please elaborate.
 
I've been hunting with my uncle for 22 years and he still can't/wont pass up a 2 year old buck unless its a below average rack.
Well he did it again. 2 y/o ten pt with about a 16" spread and 6" or so tines.
 
Weeks before harvest around here is our first frost. Guess you can aerial seed thru the corn and take your chances on good growth. Nobody does here though. Somehow would guess that might be a clue on probable success and ROI.

I should have said months. I had some time today so...

 
I've been hunting with my uncle for 22 years and he still can't/wont pass up a 2 year old buck unless its a below average rack.
Well he did it again. 2 y/o ten pt with about a 16" spread and 6" or so tines.

fe40b3bde14e71a163206841dbbf9b40.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If this isn't a joke can you please elaborate.
Not a joke. Cotton underwear is organic matter to soil microbes. If you bury some underwear and they haven't decomposed within a month and a half then your soil isn't working well. Same suggestion above; bury some old skid marks in a disk'd field, and also a pair in a nearby field that hasn't been mechanically disturbed to see if there is a difference in decomposition time.
 
A handful of books on allelopathy. Some articles on C:N ratios. Lots of info on the role of arbuscular mychorizal fungi, what is soil flocculation, the carbon cycle, how tillage impacts hydrology, interactions of plant exudates on turning rock into soluble fertilizer, what weeds tell us, and much more.

and thank you for the links

good stuff

bill
 
I would challenge the folks that are doing tillage to do a worm sapling in your plots. Then do a sampling a short distance away in a native non tilled area. Worms are by far your best friend and best way to give your plants bio available nutrients. Deep tillage over a short period of time will kill many of the worms that are present in your fields. Minimum till kills far less and no till will kill none of them (unless your using synthetic commercial fertilizers). In the case of food plots the residue is not removed and is food for your earthworms. Most of the late summer planted food plot species do a great job at cycling nutrients and aerating the soil but they are only doing that for a relatively short period. Earthworms on the other hand are there doing it year round.

Ok gonna stir the pot a little and post a little something about earthworms from Wikipedia. Spoiler alert, if some of your best friends are trees, you may not like some of your wormy friends.

BTW, in a garden or trying to grow foodplots worms are good.... just don't let your tree friends know how you feel!

From Wiki:
- Earthworms are migrating north into forests between 45° and 69° latitude in North America that have lacked native earthworms since the last ice age.

- These earthworm species are primarily from Europe and Asia, and they are disturbing many nutrient cycles.[2] By redistributing nutrients, mixing soil layers, and creating pores in the soil, they can affect the characteristics of the soil important to the rest of the ecosystem. Earthworms break up decomposing matter on the surface of the soil and carry or mix it into the surrounding soil, often carrying some of the nutrients deeper into the soil, where saplings and other young plants have trouble reaching them.

Influence on nutrient cycles and soil profiles[edit]
When organisms die, their remains fall to the forest floor, where they begin decomposing into their constituent nutrients.[6] In the absence of efficient detritivores such as earthworms, a thick layer of such organic matter accumulates. And most northern forests in North America lack native earthworms, which were largely wiped out when the ice sheets of the Wisconsin glaciation scoured much of the continent down to the bedrock. A deep detritus layer is thus characteristic of the native ecosystem of the region, and many native plants have evolved to rely on it.[2] As it slowly decomposes, it supplies nutrients, particularly potassium, phosphorus, and nitrogen, that are necessary for the production of cellular components such as carbohydrates, nucleic acids, and proteins; these nutrients are often a limiting factor in growth and maturation.[2] This provides for the growth of the trees, ferns, and smaller ground plants.

Effects on organisms[edit]
Without the nutrients available, some species that provide important biological niches to the ecosystem may be eradicated. In addition, young plants may be unable to grow without the surface nitrogen source provided by the layer of detritus.[5] Since young plants do not have the deep root systems that older trees have, they often cannot obtain enough nutrients to survive.[1] Thus, few saplings or under-canopy plants grow to full maturity and generally only the larger trees with extensive root systems survive. The addition of earthworms to an environment has been shown to decrease mycorrhizal associations with roots. This adds to the problem of finding available nutrients for plants.[3] Specifically, trees like poplar, birch, and maples are disfavored by the change in habitat, as are many forest herbs like Aralia, Viola, and Botrychium. These plants may be eradicated from the temperate forests after only months of the invasives' presence.[citation needed] Also, when a decrease in overall ground cover and canopy vegetation occurs, food for other organisms becomes scarce.[2] As a result, some organisms are forced to leave the areas, and the few plants remaining are often eaten shortly after germination.
With decreased ground-level vegetation, many terrestrial organisms like insects, small mammals, and other vertebrates must compete for fewer resources, leading to decreased diversity and population.[9] In addition, the native species of worms may be unable to compete with the introduced species because the native ones are not well adapted to the new conditions of the forest soil.[6]
Generally, with the addition of earthworms to a forest, a decrease in diversity is observed, and often other exotic species follow that can survive the nutrient diminished environment better than the natives. For example, in newly invaded forests buckthorn and garlic mustard, both invasive species, increase notably in population density.[3][9] To summarize, there is a decrease in diversity, seedling populations, forest floor organic matter volume, and overall habitat quality. In addition, there is often an increase in invasive species and decreased diversity of non-plant organisms.


Confession: Not an Ag farmer but I am a tree farmer and in forestry circles this is a documented and talked about issue and how it has changed the composition of regrowth in some forest areas.

In closing, for these northern areas impacted by the glaciers, wonder how nature provided such great soil for thousands of years before all those nasty things those darn humans bring in.
 
Sincerely asking here, so with all this knowledge you've gained, what would your method be for running a cash grain farm in MN, or Northern IL for that matter? I enjoy learning, and sometimes try new things.
I couldn't begin to lay out a feasible plan. What you're doing is far harder than what a habitat'er is doing. A switch away from heavy fertility, tillage, and spraying would sink a conventional farm. If you quit ripping clay, or abandoned pre-emergent herbicides, I'd be scared to see what happened in that transition year.

I do think if everyone dropped their yields and increased profit/ac at the same time, power in farming would shift dramatically.
 
I would challenge the folks that are doing tillage to do a worm sapling in your plots. Then do a sampling a short distance away in a native non tilled area. Worms are by far your best friend and best way to give your plants bio available nutrients. Deep tillage over a short period of time will kill many of the worms that are present in your fields. Minimum till kills far less and no till will kill none of them (unless your using synthetic commercial fertilizers). In the case of food plots the residue is not removed and is food for your earthworms. Most of the late summer planted food plot species do a great job at cycling nutrients and aerating the soil but they are only doing that for a relatively short period. Earthworms on the other hand are there doing it year round.

Ok gonna stir the pot a little and post a little something about earthworms from Wikipedia. Spoiler alert, if some of your best friends are trees, you may not like some of your wormy friends.

BTW, in a garden or trying to grow foodplots worms are good.... just don't let your tree friends know how you feel!

From Wiki:
- Earthworms are migrating north into forests between 45° and 69° latitude in North America that have lacked native earthworms since the last ice age.

- These earthworm species are primarily from Europe and Asia, and they are disturbing many nutrient cycles.[2] By redistributing nutrients, mixing soil layers, and creating pores in the soil, they can affect the characteristics of the soil important to the rest of the ecosystem. Earthworms break up decomposing matter on the surface of the soil and carry or mix it into the surrounding soil, often carrying some of the nutrients deeper into the soil, where saplings and other young plants have trouble reaching them.

Influence on nutrient cycles and soil profiles[edit]
When organisms die, their remains fall to the forest floor, where they begin decomposing into their constituent nutrients.[6] In the absence of efficient detritivores such as earthworms, a thick layer of such organic matter accumulates. And most northern forests in North America lack native earthworms, which were largely wiped out when the ice sheets of the Wisconsin glaciation scoured much of the continent down to the bedrock. A deep detritus layer is thus characteristic of the native ecosystem of the region, and many native plants have evolved to rely on it.[2] As it slowly decomposes, it supplies nutrients, particularly potassium, phosphorus, and nitrogen, that are necessary for the production of cellular components such as carbohydrates, nucleic acids, and proteins; these nutrients are often a limiting factor in growth and maturation.[2] This provides for the growth of the trees, ferns, and smaller ground plants.

Effects on organisms[edit]
Without the nutrients available, some species that provide important biological niches to the ecosystem may be eradicated. In addition, young plants may be unable to grow without the surface nitrogen source provided by the layer of detritus.[5] Since young plants do not have the deep root systems that older trees have, they often cannot obtain enough nutrients to survive.[1] Thus, few saplings or under-canopy plants grow to full maturity and generally only the larger trees with extensive root systems survive. The addition of earthworms to an environment has been shown to decrease mycorrhizal associations with roots. This adds to the problem of finding available nutrients for plants.[3] Specifically, trees like poplar, birch, and maples are disfavored by the change in habitat, as are many forest herbs like Aralia, Viola, and Botrychium. These plants may be eradicated from the temperate forests after only months of the invasives' presence.[citation needed] Also, when a decrease in overall ground cover and canopy vegetation occurs, food for other organisms becomes scarce.[2] As a result, some organisms are forced to leave the areas, and the few plants remaining are often eaten shortly after germination.
With decreased ground-level vegetation, many terrestrial organisms like insects, small mammals, and other vertebrates must compete for fewer resources, leading to decreased diversity and population.[9] In addition, the native species of worms may be unable to compete with the introduced species because the native ones are not well adapted to the new conditions of the forest soil.[6]
Generally, with the addition of earthworms to a forest, a decrease in diversity is observed, and often other exotic species follow that can survive the nutrient diminished environment better than the natives. For example, in newly invaded forests buckthorn and garlic mustard, both invasive species, increase notably in population density.[3][9] To summarize, there is a decrease in diversity, seedling populations, forest floor organic matter volume, and overall habitat quality. In addition, there is often an increase in invasive species and decreased diversity of non-plant organisms.


Confession: Not an Ag farmer but I am a tree farmer and in forestry circles this is a documented and talked about issue and how it has changed the composition of regrowth in some forest areas.

In closing, for these northern areas impacted by the glaciers, wonder how nature provided such great soil for thousands of years before all those nasty things those darn humans bring in.

Couldn’t regrowth (or lac there of) be dictated by a reduction in sunlight reaching the forest floor because cutting down trees is bad and fire suppression?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Many native plants like maples and others grow just fine without full sun. As the material above states there is growth but favors non native crap cause the native stuff is used to a heavy duff layer from lots of leave mulch accumulated over the years. Throw in some worms and that duff layer is much reduced. Maple leaves actually make a really good duff layer that lots of native plants like. Start reducing the amount of maples that grow and other native plants are less likely to be there also. Again worms are great for areas growing crops that humans like, not so great for some types of trees typical in a northern hardwoods.
 
Since everyone likes to post multiple links that support their message, ok will follow the example on "As the Worm Turns". I will limit to just three though. If you wanna read for hours just google it. How do we define "good" or "best practice" in farming or forestry depends on your objectives, point of view, where you live, yada, yada.

https://ecosystemsontheedge.org/earthworm-invaders

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9105956

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...s-threaten-growth-of-new-north-american-trees
 
Last edited:
Since everyone likes to post multiple links that support their message, ok will follow the example on "As the Worm Turns". I will limit to just three though. If you wanna read for hours just google it. How do we define "good" or "best practice" in farming or forestry depends on your objectives, point of view, where you live, yada, yada.

https://ecosystemsontheedge.org/earthworm-invaders

https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9105956

https://www.newscientist.com/articl...s-threaten-growth-of-new-north-american-trees


In my area the woods is being taken over by maple and hickory because of a lac of sunlight that hits the forest floor. There is very little oak regeneration because of lac of sun. Now that these maples have moved in when a woods is logged and there is an increase in sunlight the maples grow even faster than the oaks and shade them out even after logging has taken place. There is no way of ever having a blanket BMP across the board because of regional differences. I still stand behind the idea that fire suppression has had the biggest impact on the natural world than any other factor. (other than man which is responsible for fire suppression)
 
In my area the woods is being taken over by maple and hickory because of a lac of sunlight that hits the forest floor. There is very little oak regeneration because of lac of sun. Now that these maples have moved in when a woods is logged and there is an increase in sunlight the maples grow even faster than the oaks and shade them out even after logging has taken place. There is no way of ever having a blanket BMP across the board because of regional differences. I still stand behind the idea that fire suppression has had the biggest impact on the natural world than any other factor. (other than man which is responsible for fire suppression)
Maples are a gift. Cut them all to the ground (except a few close to camp for sugarin') and let them stump sprout. They will not die, and the deer will not stop eating them.
 
Pushed down most of the maples on my land with an excavator to open up the oaks that were being choked out by maples. Half of the root systems on the maples are still in the ground. Should make good bedding and browsing with all the maple tree tops low enough for deer to get at. See what it looks like in the spring when things start growing again.
 
I do think if everyone dropped their yields and increased profit/ac at the same time, power in farming would shift dramatically.

I would totally agree except for the influence of government programs on such decisions. I can't think of one that bases payments on net per acre. Might be. I just can't think of one. Gross revenue, yes. Proven yields multiplied by some price. So, 200 bushels of corn multiplied by $3 is "better" than 150 bushels multiplied by $3. There goes the profit argument.
 
Just like anything in life....you have to do what is good for you. Your situation and circumstances are unique.....your goals, abilities, resources and the like all impact our choices. This is why a simple forum like this has so many discussions....there is no ONE ANSWER! Also keep in mind that what production agriculture does we have to look at and understand IF it applies to our plotting at all! We tend to not be profit minded, we tend to have a TOTALLY different scale of resources as well. I would love to no-till.....but I can't justify a drill for my 2 acres of annual plots a year. So I do what works for me.
 
Maples are a gift. Cut them all to the ground (except a few close to camp for sugarin') and let them stump sprout. They will not die, and the deer will not stop eating them.

I get it, this is a hunting forum. Actually hard maples are valuable timber crop in Great Lake states. Equal to best quality found in the world much like cherry is to Pennsylvania area. There is a hardwood veneer plant less than 15 miles from my land. I'll keep my maples thanks. As noted, many have different objectives and soil and timber management are hard to quantify for everyone.
 
Maples are a gift. Cut them all to the ground (except a few close to camp for sugarin') and let them stump sprout. They will not die, and the deer will not stop eating them.

Reference: MSU - Mineral Stumps
 
Top