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Northern Whitetail Crabs

I detect a few notes of sarcasm on this thread ?? !!! :D

I called and spoke to the owner and I couldn't get a hint of the rootstock either, after much " working around the edges ". I want to know what rootstock they're on so I have a reasonable idea of what to expect. Their nursery is not that far from my home ( 1 hr. ) but I won't even make the trip. NO SALE !!!

By the way fellas .......... There are no deer left in my county. They are all up at the NWC nursery fighting over the right to eat those cutting-edge apples.
 
Maybe they don't know the rootstock. Possibly don't know much at all about trees and just trying to market a product.
 
I'm not a grower and just want to decide if it's worth the time and effort to grow seedling root stock from trees already growing under the conditions on my sandy northern soil, or if I would be further ahead to buy a known variety of root stock that is also proven in northern climates. I have the time to grow seedlings and I have the money to buy root stock, so it's a question of which will be more rewarding, personally, and which will deliver better results.

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smsmith said:
To me, it all comes down to what a person's goals are for the trees.
Click to expand...
I want to get them established and producing food for wildlife. I won't be able to spray them or even water them after the first year, so they need to be more or less self-sufficient. I have no interest in eating them myself. There are cedar trees on all 3 of the small properties where they would be planted, so that is a concern.

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broom_JM said:
I want to get them established and producing food for wildlife. I won't be able to spray them or even water them after the first year, so they need to be more or less self-sufficient. I have no interest in eating them myself. There are cedar trees on all 3 of the small properties where they would be planted, so that is a concern.

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Click to expand...
Sounds identical to my requirements when I started. Interested to see responses.

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broom_JM said:
I'm not a grower and just want to decide if it's worth the time and effort to grow seedling root stock from trees already growing under the conditions on my sandy northern soil, or if I would be further ahead to buy a known variety of root stock that is also proven in northern climates. I have the time to grow seedlings and I have the money to buy root stock, so it's a question of which will be more rewarding, personally, and which will deliver better results.

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Click to expand...

Broom,

I'm sure you've seen my apple planning and starting apples from seed threads. I agree with Stu that it probably depends on objectives. I'm trying a number of methods:

1) I'm grafting DR apple varieties to M111 clonal roostock (the semi-dwarf rootstock that is the best fit for my soils).
2) I'm grafting named varieties of crabapples to M111
3) I'm planting seedlings and I'll let some grow out for full sized trees.
4) I'm grafting DR apple varieties and named crabapple varieties to these seedlings and leaving a nurse branch or two to see the fruiting characteristics of the seedling.
5) When I find seedlings with fruiting characteristics I like, they will provide scions for grafting.

My objectives are no long-term maintenance and volume.

Thanks,

Jack
 
smsmith said:
That's helpful. Do you have wild crabs/apples there already?

If so, you're set. Find some small ones, dig them up and use them as rootstock. If not, then I'd recommend buying some bareroot ranetka or baccata crabapples. Both are more than winter hardy enough for your area, and both have fibrous root systems....which is what you want in sand. The clonal option for rootstock I'd recommend would be b118, as it is also very fibrous. You say you aren't going to be babying these....so I'm guessing that means you won't be liming on a regular basis. If that's true, the baccata or ranetka crabs will do better in lower ph soil than will any clonal rootstocks.
Click to expand...

Yes, we have a few crab/apple trees on the property, one of which produces a great deal of fruit that continues to drop into December. I would like to collect scion wood from that tree because it seems to grow a lot of fruit, every year.

My biggest limitation is living so far away from the properties; once I plant something (cage, wire wrap, landscape fabric and gravel "mulch") the tree pretty much has to fend for itself. I wish I had the time to make sure they get watered, but it just isn't going to happen. I'll look into the Baccata or Ranetka crabs, as I certainly have a very sandy, low-pH soil to work with.
 
Here is part of the response I got back:

"Temperatures swirl down into Kentucky from PA and are very similar for winter conditions. All the whitetail trees should do fine and are grafted onto a large cold hardy rootstock that withstands dry wet and clay conditions. Wetland soils are not suitable for any apple trees and they will grow much slower etc. The 30-06 and Droptine drop late fall into winter...some still hanging now and dropping. The 10-Point drops early fall. Sheepnose drops really slow fall into late winter and a great one to plant if drop times a big consideration...which it should be."
 
Broom,

Quit lying!

Ive been to your property personally, hes being modest guys. His one small chunk of land, i think he owns 6 acres there he has like 50 wild michigan crabapples on 1 freakin hillside like 100 yds wide.


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buckvelvet said:
Broom,

Quit lying!

Ive been to your property personally, hes being modest guys. His one small chunk of land, i think he owns 6 acres there he has like 50 wild michigan crabapples on 1 freakin hillside like 100 yds wide.

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Click to expand...

I've got it figured out now - he's one of the secret rootstock agents sent here to spy on us and project revenue for 2017.......
 
Buckly said:
Maybe they don't know the rootstock. Possibly don't know much at all about trees and just trying to market a product.
Click to expand...

I wonder if there isnt some truth to that. However, Stark Brothers does the same thing unless you get the wholesale price list and then order in wholesale quantities. I wonder if they think they sell more trees that way because obviously some people have a preference for one root stock type over another, this way they can just try and convince the buyer that their root stock choice is the best for that customer.
 
buckvelvet said:
Broom,

Quit lying!

Ive been to your property personally, hes being modest guys. His one small chunk of land, i think he owns 6 acres there he has like 50 wild michigan crabapples on 1 freakin hillside like 100 yds wide.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
That's where the crabapple tree is that I want to collect scion wood from, so I can get similar trees established on the other two properties. Yeah, that place has plenty of apple trees and I found a wild pear tree when I was there in November. It still had a few pears hanging on, so it would be cool to grow seedlings from that tree and then graft back to them with scion wood. There is something appealing about the idea of propagating from existing trees.

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broom_JM said:
That's where the crabapple tree is that I want to collect scion wood from, so I can get similar trees established on the other two properties. Yeah, that place has plenty of apple trees and I found a wild pear tree when I was there in November. It still had a few pears hanging on, so it would be cool to grow seedlings from that tree and then graft back to them with scion wood. There is something appealing about the idea of propagating from existing trees.

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Click to expand...

Sandbagger...


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broom_JM said:
Hey, when you've got as much sand as we have... ;)
Click to expand...

Thank God apple & crapapples seem to enjoy Michigan sand. :)
 
I bought from them two years ago, all the crab varieties and a couple of the apple. I was very satisfied with the root structure, feathering and quality of the trees when I got them. They have all grown very well, as good as anything else I have planted. Trees are still to young to have produced any fruit for me yet.
I'm not near as hung up on what rootstock they are on as others...if they grow well and feed the deer and other wildlife on the farm I'm happy with them. I will be buying a few more from NWC to add to my other place next spring.
 
Exactly Stu, well said! In my opinion and experience, me growing pretty much anything other than B.118 is a waste of time and money. I don't have enough of either to be wasteful.
 
We all have our reasons for wanting certain rootstocks. I need rootstocks that will grow big trees that hopefully put on lots of heavy wood. We have bears and the hope is that if we can get the trees old enough and big enough, they might be able to survive a bear climbing in them. We've been using Antonovka, B-118, and some MM-111. Our soil will grow just about anything, but tree size is the determining factor for us. We need BIG.

If we didn't have bears, I'd be planting a lot of other things we just can't plant.
 
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