Northern Whitetail Crabs

[Big Snow Man]

http://www.northernwhitetailcrabs.com/whitetail-tree-selections

Has anyone ever bought from these guys and what varieties do you think some of these crabs are ?

 

[Diesel5610]

There are a few guys that have mentioned them in other threads here. The few who have purchased from them seem to be happy with the trees. No mention of specific varieties.

 

[bwoods11]

Interesting. If you could match the results from the pics.

 

[sandbur]

I would want to know what northern hardiness means. North of the Mason dixon line? Zone 4? Zone3?
Disease resistant and lots of talk about fireblight. no mention of CAR which is much more important to me in most years.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Based on they are in northeast PA which the coldest zone for the whole state is 5a and a comment of prolonged cold "below zero" (yeah ok maybe cold enough for the MN crowd to switch from the fall jacket to winter one) would take a guess that zones like 4a and below are iffy

 

[chickenlittle]

I don't know anything about these folks but I get the BoB feeling about crabs marketed for deer. Probably work just fine for most people and the price is fine for a grafted tree. Based on the one photo the their proprietary crab trees ready for shipment, they do look to be grafted. Their deer varieties are all presented under trademarked names. So they really could be anything not under patent that they decided to sell as "droptine" or "30-06". As you guys know, you can call anything "disease resistant" or "cold hardy". That all sounds good until it has to survive on your land. You guys insisting cold hardy has to mean northern Minnesota are just being unreasonable:).

The 30-06 crab looks like the Puget Spice crabapple developed by WSU but there are probably dozens of varieties available from GRIN that look similar.

 

[sandbur]

I don't know anything about these folks but I get the BoB feeling about crabs marketed for deer. Probably work just fine for most people and the price is fine for a grafted tree. Based on the one photo the their proprietary crab trees ready for shipment, they do look to be grafted. Their deer varieties are all presented under trademarked names. So they really could be anything not under patent that they decided to sell as "droptine" or "30-06". As you guys know, you can call anything "disease resistant" or "cold hardy". That all sounds good until it has to survive on your land. You guys insisting cold hardy has to mean northern Minnesota are just being unreasonable:).

The 30-06 crab looks like the Puget Spice crabapple developed by WSU but there are probably dozens of varieties available from GRIN that look similar.

Tonight might reach -25 in the forecast for a town north of me. Plus wind chill.
That's 20 degrees warmer than the coldest I have seen... twice.

 

[Big Snow Man]

I emailed them and received confirmation these trees are grafted on hardy root stock

 

[Powder]

Tonight might reach -25 in the forecast for a town north of me. Plus wind chill.
That's 20 degrees warmer than the coldest I have seen... twice.

That would be me! It's currently -16 as I write this. Expecting -25. This is an every year occurrence.

 

[chickenlittle]

Super secret rootstock. Can't give away trade secrets.

 

[Native Hunter]

Oh my, they are going to wonder what is going on - I just sent an email asking the same thing before I read this...

But I did ask about Zone 6B too, so maybe they won't think its a conspiracy.:D

 

[yoderjac]

I would guess the super secret root stock is simply crabapple seedlings, not clonal rootstock. This would produce a full sized tree but with known fruiting characteristics. Trade secret often means "saves us money but doesn't market well".

Thanks,

Jack

 

[CrazyEd]

I grafted some "30 point buck" and "The Booner" crabapples in the spring of 2015. Trees are 10' tall and feathered. These things will stack up the big bucks on your property for sure! Deer can't resist them and it will draw deer in from miles away. I'm putting them on ebay the day after Christmas. Quantities are limited so get your wallets ready.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack, the response I got was that the crabs are grafted...which would mean they are NOT seedlings. They just didn't want to say what rootstock(s?) they're grafted to. Pure B.S. IMHO

Whether they're grafted to clonal or seedling rootstock is irrelevant if the people running the site won't tell us. Either tell me the trees are grafted to M7, B118, ranetka, antonovka...or your momma...just tell me.

Stu,

I don't disagree at all. I wouldn't offer up funds for a black box tree either. I'd contrast that with the Wildlife Group. Alan answered all of my questions including how they nut grafted them, when they did it, when they transplanting into roottrapper bags. He didn't seem to hold anything back. It is often better to build a trusted relationship with a company than some of the alternatives, and a company that is not forthcoming about something as simple as rootstock is not establishing a trusted relationship.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Diesel5610]

Well whatever the trees are, that decision to refuse to tell a customer exactly what they are buying was not very well thought out. I couldn't buy anything there after that response.

 

[broom_JM]

Jack, the response I got was that the crabs are grafted...which would mean they are NOT seedlings. They just didn't want to say what rootstock(s?) they're grafted to. Pure B.S. IMHO

Whether they're grafted to clonal or seedling rootstock is irrelevant if the people running the site won't tell us. Either tell me the trees are grafted to M7, B118, ranetka, antonovka...or your momma...just tell me.

I agree that they should just tell you what they're using for root stock on their trees. My question to you is this: If they are growing seedlings from crab apple trees and then grafting known varieties of apple or crab apple onto those seedlings, perhaps retaining a stalk of the seedling as well, what problems would that present to someone who bought and grew those trees?

Super secret rootstock. Can't give away trade secrets.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[Big Snow Man]

I grafted some "30 point buck" and "The Booner" crabapples in the spring of 2015. Trees are 10' tall and feathered. These things will stack up the big bucks on your property for sure! Deer can't resist them and it will draw deer in from miles away. I'm putting them on ebay the day after Christmas. Quantities are limited so get your wallets ready.

Ok I will get up extra early on Christmas with my credit card ready !

 

[CrazyEd]

Ok I will get up extra early on Christmas with my credit card ready !

Oh yeah, if you want to buy them i'm going to make you sign a confidentiality document, you can't even talk about these trees. To go along with that there is another legal document stating you wont be clone them, graft the scions to other trees/rootstocks, or give them to anyone else who might do the same.

 

[CrazyEd]

No problem Mr. LaPratt:eek::)

Put your camera away stu. no pics either!#!$!#$!@#

 

[yoderjac]

I agree that they should just tell you what they're using for root stock on their trees. My question to you is this: If they are growing seedlings from crab apple trees and then grafting known varieties of apple or crab apple onto those seedlings, perhaps retaining a stalk of the seedling as well, what problems would that present to someone who bought and grew those trees?



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

Broom,

There are no specific problems or issues with doing that. The master grafter in the class I took said they did all kind of stuff like that even for orchards. They would dig up sprouts or even roots and graft directly to roots. Clonal root stocks have more known qualities. They were bred for dwarfing and some disease control. Some do better in some soil types than others.

I'm right now doing just that, growing seedlings and will be field grafting many of them eventually. Like everything else, there are pros and cons.

I think the real issue here is simply the principle of whether one wants to deal with a company that won't even tell you what rootstock they are using for the trees they are selling. Maybe they think it some way it protects their product, but it is an example of putting your customers below your business. With some many apple varieties available why deal with a company that is not forthcoming about something as straight forward as rootstock.

Thanks,

Jack