Mn gun opener

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Your statement seems to contradict itself.
when hunters say deer are “Nocturnal “ they don’t mean literally “up all night, sleep all day”. It is just a catch all phrase meaning, they move very little during the day, and not into open areas.
I’ve listened to the MSU Lab guys, and they don’t seem to get that either.
does anyone have a better word than ”nocturnal “ it’d be willing to change my speech patterns.

Pain-in-the-ass-urnal?

 

[TenPoint]

I think you are wrong there. I hear of more rifle hunters that bought a xbow to be able to hunt earlier and all season, than OG bow hunters switching. We will see when the numbers come out. When I registered my deer over the phone, there was a question about what type of bow I used.

Maybe MN is different but I see no change in WI in regards to xbows and increased pressure.

 

[Brian662]

Deer 100% alter and change patterns when hunting pressure drastically increases. There are studies on this, it takes them 4-5 days post intrusion to resume normal activities.

Here is a camera survey from this year in WI on my property - opening day was Nov 18 and I was not at my property opening weekend.
Keep in mind the rut is tailing off by Nov 18 in a large way, however...
Opening day water hole in timber, had 12 bucks on camera during daylight hours. The second day of rifle season it was down to one buck on camera. I hunted an all day sit on day 4 of the rifle season (first pressure on my property in two weeks) and saw one small buck, while hunting in a scent containing blind. Not a single deer visited the water that day.

Absent of a noticeable weather change, one of three things happened.
1. The rut abruptly ended on opening day
2. All those bucks got shot (they did not)
3. The deer completely changed their patterns to avoid daylight movement while being pressured.

Without a doubt in my mind it is #3 which is why hunters have been doing deer "drives" since the beginning of time.

For this to happen during archery season, even with xbows seems very unlikely to me. The single weekend increase in pressure would have to intense, and there is no audible noise for deer 1/2 mile around when a xbow goes off.

 

[Brian662]

The above is why rifle season during the rut in MN is so detrimental to the herd, deer are feeling biological pressure to reproduce yet have to fight their sense of security to do it. From a game management prospective it is an absolutely horrible practice.
Add in a few bad winters, predator pressure, loss in habitat, and you have our current situation.

 

[sandbur]

Has anyone that hunts North of Brainerd got any positive results to share. Two of my nieghbors that hunt near Emily are looking for a new place to go.....after 50 years in that same area. They did not see a rub or a scrape or a deer in three days.....and they spend full days on stand. Just wolves howling at night.

I told them to get closer to more people.....because there is better food near people.....and it keeps the wolves a bit farther away. Dunno......deer hunting on northern Public land is the chitz these days.

I agree with the deer being near the lakes and people up there. A few years ago, I noticed that deer numbers and sign really dropped off between Emily and Outing. Winter and wolves have moved that line south.

One friend from just above that line has started hunting further south. SE Mn in fact.

 

[sandbur]

I harvested a 2.5 yo 6 point with my (vertical) bow the Friday before gun opener in 172. I brought it to Emily meats, and they said almost every archery deer was taken by crossbow. I know that’s hearsay, but it’s what they told me. They also had a decent number from the youth hunt.
FWIW, this is the 1st deer I’ve harvested up there in the 5 years I’ve been trying, letting em go to grow hasn’t seemed to be working. Also, this was on public land.

Congratulations on the deer!

 

[sandbur]

I have seven cell cams here in my zone of MN. In the past three weeks I have several dozen night time pics of deer including some nice bucks. I have TWO daytime pics on my cams. The deer simply go nocturnal with the rifle season here. ....and in fact have almost no movement during the first two weeks of rifle.....day or night. They got us wired.

Here in central Minnesota, the youth season combined with antlerless season pushed deer to nocturnal. I don’t understand why in the world we need this antlerless season.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Deer 100% alter and change patterns when hunting pressure drastically increases. There are studies on this, it takes them 4-5 days post intrusion to resume normal activities.

Here is a camera survey from this year in WI on my property - opening day was Nov 18 and I was not at my property opening weekend.
Keep in mind the rut is tailing off by Nov 18 in a large way, however...
Opening day water hole in timber, had 12 bucks on camera during daylight hours. The second day of rifle season it was down to one buck on camera. I hunted an all day sit on day 4 of the rifle season (first pressure on my property in two weeks) and saw one small buck, while hunting in a scent containing blind. Not a single deer visited the water that day.

Absent of a noticeable weather change, one of three things happened.
1. The rut abruptly ended on opening day
2. All those bucks got shot (they did not)
3. The deer completely changed their patterns to avoid daylight movement while being pressured.

Without a doubt in my mind it is #3 which is why hunters have been doing deer "drives" since the beginning of time.

For this to happen during archery season, even with xbows seems very unlikely to me. The single weekend increase in pressure would have to intense, and there is no audible noise for deer 1/2 mile around when a xbow goes off.

Absolutely they change their patterns but the idea that they just completely stop moving for 12 hours of daylight doesn’t happen. They just move differently. Studies have shown that. Ironically I saw a study in qdma years ago that radio telemetry showed daylight use was just as high in the late season as it was during any part of the season showing that pressure didn’t turn them nocturnal. The problem is they move most likely where we don’t want to be and can’t easily access without blowing everything out.

 

[Brian662]

Absolutely they change their patterns but the idea that they just completely stop moving for 12 hours of daylight doesn’t happen. They just move differently. Studies have shown that. Ironically I saw a study in qdma years ago that radio telemetry showed daylight use was just as high in the late season as it was during any part of the season showing that pressure didn’t turn them nocturnal. The problem is they move most likely where we don’t want to be and can’t easily access without blowing everything out.

Certainly security cover becomes a premium. However, like my example above, they just flat out stopped moving by a water hole that had seen zero human intrusion within (just guessing) a minimum of 500 yards. I saw 25 deer last night, mostly all does and fawns. The bucks mostly didn't reveal themselves until an hour after dark or later.

 

[MN Slick]

The MN hunting culture is at least a decade behind any other state in the Midwest except select areas like SEMN and spots in and around Ottertail County. It’s “I have to kill my deer” everywhere else. One of my hunting friends still reports his gun season saying something like “we went 7 for 9” as if they were shooting trap.

My theory: the great majority of daylight walkers in MN get shot young,leaving those whose personality is more nocturnal to live another year. This behavior is then passed down by the doe and over a few generations you have a herd more prone to move during low light.

Add the pathetic DNR, wolves, now crossbows, etc and MN is F’ed. Life is too short to waste time in MN if you really love to hunt.

 

[bwoods11]

Here in central Minnesota, the youth season combined with antlerless season pushed deer to nocturnal. I don’t understand why in the world we need this antlerless season.

Blow up the DNR area managers with emails ….(we are doing this)! The MN DNR did not take not account the winter kill. Big mistake !

 

[bwoods11]

The MN hunting culture is at least a decade behind any other state in the Midwest except select areas like SEMN and spots in and around Ottertail County. It’s “I have to kill my deer” everywhere else. One of my hunting friends still reports his gun season saying something like “we went 7 for 9” as if they were shooting trap.

My theory: the great majority of daylight walkers in MN get shot young,leaving those whose personality is more nocturnal to live another year. This behavior is then passed down by the doe and over a few generations you have a herd more prone to move during low light.

Add the pathetic DNR, wolves, now crossbows, etc and MN is F’ed. Life is too short to waste time in MN if you really love to hunt.

Totally agree. Sad . We need major changes in Minnesota and no excuses from hunters like “well it’s cold if we move the gun season back”! It’s way past time !!

 

[MNAaron]

Blow up the DNR area managers with emails ….(we are doing this)! The MN DNR did not take not account the winter kill. Big mistake !

We can flood the DNR with letters but nothing will happen until legislators are involved. Need to make it an economic argument otherwise it will be status quo. I wish they would at least pilot moving the season back in a few different zones.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SD51555]

I think the wolf and big forest zone is different from anywhere else in the country. Up here, you will never see a buck out in the open during the day. Not in October, not in November, not in March or July either. You have to catch them at their edge of comfort and cruising territory.

They need to come to the show to find a lady, but they don’t come and eat in big food plots for long periods of time during the day. They may poke into the edge of a tiny one for a few minutes, but that seems to be rare.

Once the sun goes down, I get buck activity consistently within 40 yards of my outhouse and cabin. And this year it has been frequent.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wind Gypsy]

If the DNR were to survey MN hunters on moving the dates back (and they have) they would get feedback overwhelmingly against it.

 

[bwoods11]

If the DNR were to survey MN hunters on moving the dates back (and they have) they would get feedback overwhelmingly against it.

Let me edit…Actually not completely accurate. I saw the survey . It’s about 50/50 . However, when you say move the gun season to late November the numbers are against yes!

Here is the 2018 survey … would be nice to see a simple yes or no! A 2023 survey would be nice to see .

 

[bueller]

Good luck, this is what they want. It's a trend around the country. Between CWD, drop in hunter recruitment, vehicle crashes, etc they are managing for these numbers behind closed doors. When numbers are high they get it from all ends. When numbers are low only the hunters complain. And when hunters relocate to areas with more deer their goal of reduction is once met.

 

[bueller]

Is they were serious we would be back to the old days of none or very limited doe tags. Sadly, not even close.

 

[sandbur]

Is they were serious we would be back to the old days of none or very limited doe tags. Sadly, not even close.

I think it varies with the area manager. Some do cut back doe permits and probably do consider winter kill.

I strongly feel other managers want as few deer as possible and really have no interest in managing anything for deer. Just issue as many doe tags as possible.

 

[Mortenson]

I think it varies with the area manager. Some do cut back doe permits and probably do consider winter kill.

I strongly feel other managers want as few deer as possible and really have no interest in managing anything for deer. Just issue as many doe tags as possible.

Ours only marks a mapdot if they can sample the brain at the check station. My son's deer was not sampled and so its removal from the herd doesn't seem to be cared about, in my mind. Shouldn't a concerned dnr scientist care about numbers?