A decline in turkey numbers is happening all across the south. We used to kill nearly 20,000 a year in Arkansas. We are now killing 8,000. Quail are gone, rabbits are gone, turkeys are on the way out, duck numbers declining. In our state, if you want to hunt something besides deer - get a coon/squirrel dog, a coyote caller, and a bear bait.
Kansas goes to 1 spring bird
- Thread starter ksgobbler
- Start date
Belchertown Bowman
5 year old buck +
Swamp,.. what do you attribute this decline too?
Ok it could be several things but in your opinion what are the leading causes?
Ok it could be several things but in your opinion what are the leading causes?
Belchertown Bowman
5 year old buck +
PS in Mass. Our Turkey populations are going up and we are expanding on kill laws.
That is why I ask, I wonder what is the difference?
That is why I ask, I wonder what is the difference?
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I've never been a big fan of turkeys, but I'm a huge fan of quail and prairie chickens. Quail numbers aren't what they used to be but there are still some around. Chickens have all but dissapeared. I've heard lots of theories but nobody seems to have the answers. Disease, lack of predator control, changes in burn management, more efficient grain harvesting machinery, cattle management, etc.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
ksgobbler
5 year old buck +
Look how much fescue is in pastures and hedge rows now. Its pretty incredible.
Catscratch
5 year old buck +
I believe it to be a variety of factors - but in my opinion - the biggest factor is predation. In our state, we saw an increase in trapping effort mid to late 90’s and hit our peak turkey population shortly there after - and been declining ever since - along with a decline in trapping effort. Along with this, a turkey nesting success study in the mid 90’s showed coons and black snakes were the main nest predators. Coyotes werent even mentioned. Latest nesting success studies show coyotes are now a significant nest predator - and not only do they get the eggs - they often kill the hens - which coons and rat snakes did not do. We dont have quail, or rabbits - or even many cotton rats - anymore. We have a lot of coons, possums, coyotes, and foxes.
Back in the 80’s - turkey, quail, and rabbits could thrive in mediocre habitat - because of the low number of predators due to elevated fur prices. Now, for any of the ground dwelling animals - it takes the best of the best habitat for them to successfully reproduce. And as the number of adult, breeding population declines - the rate of predation goes up. Kind of like if you bave a 100 acre corn field - coons arent going to do much damage. But if you have four rows of sweet corn, they are going to wipe you out.
not to say that loss of habitat, adverse weather, hunting pressure - especially bumping hens - all have contributed.
i dont know that calling is nearly effective as trapping - at least not for me. The point being, when you have a static number of predators - and the prey species - rabbits, quail, pheasants, turkeys, etc - start to decline for any reason - the predators start taking a greater percentage of the available prey species. Like around my place - coyotes and hawks will feed to large extent on cotton rats. As the cotton rat population declines - then those predators start utilizing other prey species more and more - and so on down the line. In the past 15 years, our fawn recruitment numbers have fallen from .8 fawns per doe - to just under .5 fawns per doe.
There are multiple turkey studies nearing the end of their study period in several states across the SE. will be interesting to see what those studies show.
ksgobbler
5 year old buck +
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KDWPT Working to Combat Declining Turkey Numbers
PRATT – Wild turkey populations are declining across the Midwest and Kansas isn’t immune. Though the Sunflower State still boasts one of the strongest wild turkey populations in the region, statewide surveys suggest immediate action is needed if Kansas is to have any measurable impact on slowing the decline.
Leading the charge is Kent Fricke, small game coordinator for the Kansas Department of Wildlife, Parks and Tourism (KDWPT). Fricke, who chairs the Department’s Wild Turkey Committee, has presented on the matter to the Kansas Wildlife, Parks and Tourism Commission since June 2019.
“Our primary concern is declining nest and brood survival rates, which are influenced by habitat availability and weather,” said Fricke. “In recent years, we’ve observed declines in both habitat quantity and quality, as well as significant weather events that have negatively impacted nesting and brood rearing seasons. Collectively, these factors are likely contributing to turkey declines.”
While Fricke and others continue to examine potential causes behind the widespread decline, spring flooding is believed to be at the forefront for 2019, as Kansas’ estimated statewide turkey production was the lowest on record.
In an effort to give populations an adequate opportunity to recover from this year’s hard-hitting spring and reduce long-term declines, staff developed progressive recommendations for the 2020 spring and fall turkey seasons. Though not all staff recommendations were approved as presented, Commissioners approved the following at their Nov. 14 meeting in Scott City:
Bag limits in Turkey Management Units 3, 5, and 6 (Northeast, Southcentral, and Southeast) will be reduced from two turkeys to one turkey beginning with the spring 2020 season; bag limits in Units 1 and 2 (Northwest and Northcentral) will remain at two turkeys. Hunters will still be able to purchase a permit, game tag, or combo; however, game tags (which allow the take of a second turkey) will not be valid in Units 3, 5, and 6.
An amendment to reduce the fall 2020 season to 41 days for all open Turkey Management Units. Currently, the fall season runs Oct. 1, 2019-Jan. 31, 2020; however, under the new regulation, the 2020 fall season will run Oct. 1-Nov. 10, 2020. Unit 4 remains closed to fall hunting.
Staff recommended suspending the fall season in Units 3, 5, and 6. However, Commissioners were hesitant to agree, for fear of losing fall turkey hunting opportunity indefinitely. An amendment to create a bearded-only fall hunting season was introduced by the Commission, but was unable to gain a majority vote. The fall season bag limit – one either sex permit valid statewide, except for Unit 4 – remains unchanged.
Spring 2021 turkey season dates. Youth and hunters with disabilities – April 1-13, 2021; archery – April 5-13, 2021; and the regular season – April 14-May 31, 2021.
“The Wild Turkey Committee continues to refine and update our Adaptive Harvest Strategy, which provides a consistent and transparent method of developing staff recommendations for spring and fall season bag limits,” said Fricke. “Our goal is to maintain a robust turkey population that provides high hunter satisfaction.”
Fricke adds that landowners interested in improving turkey habitat on their property are encouraged to contact KDWPT biologists to develop strategies. There are many resources available to assist landowners with habitat improvements, visit https://ksoutdoors.com/Services/Private-Landowner-Assistance for more information.
News Items
Public Affairs ContactWeekly NewsNews ArchiveRecent UpdatesNews Email FormsNewsletter Request FormsNewslettersNews Email Sign up
PrintEmail a Friend
KDWPT Working to Combat Declining Turkey Numbers
PRATT – Wild turkey populations are declining across the Midwest and Kansas isn’t immune. Though the Sunflower State still boasts one of the strongest wild turkey populations in the region, statewide surveys suggest immediate action is needed if Kansas is to have any measurable impact on slowing the decline.
Leading the charge is Kent Fricke, small game coordinator for the Kansas Department of Wildlife, Parks and Tourism (KDWPT). Fricke, who chairs the Department’s Wild Turkey Committee, has presented on the matter to the Kansas Wildlife, Parks and Tourism Commission since June 2019.
“Our primary concern is declining nest and brood survival rates, which are influenced by habitat availability and weather,” said Fricke. “In recent years, we’ve observed declines in both habitat quantity and quality, as well as significant weather events that have negatively impacted nesting and brood rearing seasons. Collectively, these factors are likely contributing to turkey declines.”
While Fricke and others continue to examine potential causes behind the widespread decline, spring flooding is believed to be at the forefront for 2019, as Kansas’ estimated statewide turkey production was the lowest on record.
In an effort to give populations an adequate opportunity to recover from this year’s hard-hitting spring and reduce long-term declines, staff developed progressive recommendations for the 2020 spring and fall turkey seasons. Though not all staff recommendations were approved as presented, Commissioners approved the following at their Nov. 14 meeting in Scott City:
Bag limits in Turkey Management Units 3, 5, and 6 (Northeast, Southcentral, and Southeast) will be reduced from two turkeys to one turkey beginning with the spring 2020 season; bag limits in Units 1 and 2 (Northwest and Northcentral) will remain at two turkeys. Hunters will still be able to purchase a permit, game tag, or combo; however, game tags (which allow the take of a second turkey) will not be valid in Units 3, 5, and 6.
An amendment to reduce the fall 2020 season to 41 days for all open Turkey Management Units. Currently, the fall season runs Oct. 1, 2019-Jan. 31, 2020; however, under the new regulation, the 2020 fall season will run Oct. 1-Nov. 10, 2020. Unit 4 remains closed to fall hunting.
Staff recommended suspending the fall season in Units 3, 5, and 6. However, Commissioners were hesitant to agree, for fear of losing fall turkey hunting opportunity indefinitely. An amendment to create a bearded-only fall hunting season was introduced by the Commission, but was unable to gain a majority vote. The fall season bag limit – one either sex permit valid statewide, except for Unit 4 – remains unchanged.
Spring 2021 turkey season dates. Youth and hunters with disabilities – April 1-13, 2021; archery – April 5-13, 2021; and the regular season – April 14-May 31, 2021.
“The Wild Turkey Committee continues to refine and update our Adaptive Harvest Strategy, which provides a consistent and transparent method of developing staff recommendations for spring and fall season bag limits,” said Fricke. “Our goal is to maintain a robust turkey population that provides high hunter satisfaction.”
Fricke adds that landowners interested in improving turkey habitat on their property are encouraged to contact KDWPT biologists to develop strategies. There are many resources available to assist landowners with habitat improvements, visit https://ksoutdoors.com/Services/Private-Landowner-Assistance for more information.
This study has some age on it (2006)- "Male Rio Grande Turkey Survival and Movements in the Texas Panhandle and Southwestern Kansas"
Those are the survival rates below - not the mortality rates. In other words, 59.7% of Jakes make it through the year and 36.4% of adult toms make it through the year. It said the more they move from area to area, the greater the mortality. Greatest mortality was in the fall.
" Juvenile males had a higher annual survival rate (0.597: 0.478–0.716]) than adults (0.364 [0.257–0.472])"
"Hunting accounted for 18.5% of all mortalities. However, most (80.7 % ) mortality was attributed to natural causes, mostly mammalian predation. We suspected most predation was the result of coyotes ( Canis latrans ) and bobcats ( Lynx rufus )."
In other words, the predators are eating them up. Wouldn't have thought the predation rate would have been so bad on adult gobblers.
Those are the survival rates below - not the mortality rates. In other words, 59.7% of Jakes make it through the year and 36.4% of adult toms make it through the year. It said the more they move from area to area, the greater the mortality. Greatest mortality was in the fall.
" Juvenile males had a higher annual survival rate (0.597: 0.478–0.716]) than adults (0.364 [0.257–0.472])"
"Hunting accounted for 18.5% of all mortalities. However, most (80.7 % ) mortality was attributed to natural causes, mostly mammalian predation. We suspected most predation was the result of coyotes ( Canis latrans ) and bobcats ( Lynx rufus )."
In other words, the predators are eating them up. Wouldn't have thought the predation rate would have been so bad on adult gobblers.
Bill
Administrator
I missed this somehow.
MDC did a three year study, that ended last year, on what was killing turkeys. Haven’t seen the official results but my farm was included in the study area. I gave them permission to bait, trap and radio collar turkeys then go find them when the collar stopped moving. Last year I found one dead in the spring. When the biologist showed up with the tracking antenna I just took them to it. Turned out it was a domestic dog kill.
I joked with her that they didn’t need to do a study, coyotes were killing most of them. She agreed......and she had been investigating kill sites for the past 3 years.
MDC did a three year study, that ended last year, on what was killing turkeys. Haven’t seen the official results but my farm was included in the study area. I gave them permission to bait, trap and radio collar turkeys then go find them when the collar stopped moving. Last year I found one dead in the spring. When the biologist showed up with the tracking antenna I just took them to it. Turned out it was a domestic dog kill.
I joked with her that they didn’t need to do a study, coyotes were killing most of them. She agreed......and she had been investigating kill sites for the past 3 years.
Howboutthemdawgs
5 year old buck +
Sometimes we need to take the law into our hands when the ends justify the means in my humble opinion. The antiquated notion of trapping seasons on predators such as coons and coyotes and legality/illegality of “taking care of” domestic dogs (I use that term loosely) is hindering our ability to manage certain populations. The trend is headed the wrong way and truthfully it looks to be somewhat of an uphill battle if we don’t have a mindset shift and get serious about rebuilding these populations.
I believe that the inability to control bird of prey numbers affects these numbers as much as anything.Around 5 years ago we found 10-15 dead or dying turkeys while shed hunting and I talked to guys in county to north and they found them also.I called KDWP but they didn't see to interested.One of the strange parts is that the harvesting of males doesn't affect the population so if they wanted to increase breeding then why not make it to where hens couldn't be hunted in the fall
ksgobbler
5 year old buck +
The biologist tried to close the fall season. One commissioner who likes to fall hunt blocked it. Another commissioner tried to make it male birds only and he got bullied too.
Mortenson
5 year old buck +
We've had great turkey numbers for probably 15 years. Have had good hunting success. The past few years things got more variable. Sightings would come and go. During fall deer seasons my dad and I would observe the turkey population, always seeing numerous birds, sometimes flocks of 30 or 40. This entire deer season we saw zero. Coyote populations are high, although many are working on them, we need to do better. With the damn coyotes, seems you kill a bunch and they repopulate instantly, new ones just move in. If several neighbors, totalling 500 acres take out 20-25, did you even accomplish anything?
Buckly
5 year old buck +
Research has shown that changes in habitat is the biggest factor in wild turkey population declines. Dr William Porter did extensive research for years in NY on wild turkey populations. It seems turkey although very adaptable need certain proportions of big woods, open ground, grasses . Shrubs etc. these peaked here from about 1990 - 2005. He warned at the time that the habitat had peaked for turkey and it would be changing in years to come And it has. Dairy farms declined, new house construction, all kinds of different things. Turkey populations are pretty low right now compared to the peak. Short term, wet cold springs or flooding are the next most detrimental. The increase in predictors certainly doesnt help anything. Around here a huge uptick in Eagles and Osprey in my opinion have really put a hurt on the turkey that do make it. I’ve also seen my share of trail cam pics with a turkey in a coyotes mouth. I don’t know how they do it but they do. They have adjusted fall seasons here to shorter lengths with a one bird limit And Areas that used to be 2 bird are now 1. Spring season remains the same as it doesn’t have any affect on populations.
ksgobbler
5 year old buck +
These came off a 2 mile by 2 mile section 10 miles east od my house last week. I didnt count but they said 141.
dangit! We already dont have turkeys, quail, rabbits, or cotton rats. If we had coyotes like that, we wouldnt have any deer either. What kind of prey base do you have that supports 141 coyotes on 2500 acres? How did they kill them?
