Hunter Managed Herds

[Steve Bartylla]

MO, trust me, I understand the issues with being in a high deer density area and not being able to get on top of deer numbers, for a wide variety of reasons. You're doing the only thing you realistically can, producing more food for too many deer. I do think you are best served, when you do kill does, killing the fence jumping does, though, particularly in your situation. I view them as parasites, both from a food destruction and leading bucks astray stand point.

As far as the comment about "too many deer around," when you have the best habitat in the area, bucks seem to be willing to take that trade and tolerate the high doe numbers just fine.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

MO, trust me, I understand the issues with being in a high deer density area and not being able to get on top of deer numbers, for a wide variety of reasons. You're doing the only thing you realistically can, producing more food for too many deer. I do think you are best served, when you do kill does, killing the fence jumping does, though, particularly in your situation. I view them as parasites, both from a food destruction and leading bucks astray stand point.

As far as the comment about "too many deer around," when you have the best habitat in the area, bucks seem to be willing to take that trade and tolerate the high doe numbers just fine.

I think the stress is two fold for bucks in high dpsm areas....1)competition for resources/available habitat and 2)social stresses of many many other social units (doe groups and other bucks) in close proximity. So it stands to reason that providing the highest quality habitat (food, cover, water) can reduce both stress point sources to a point that bucks can tolerate.

 

[sandbur]

In the past two seasons I have noticed (due to fewer doe permits and nice winters) we are seeing more deer on my farms in Pope County/MN. I did not think it would turn around this fast. Right now it is tough to grow soybeans and corn on one of my farm ---getting hit hard in a high pocket of deer area.

It is still not where it should be for the county, but it's getting slightly better. (Still not many good bucks though:oops:)

100% agree, but we can still grow crops and foodplots.

 

[sandbur]

Brooks- our chapter of MDHA was looking for a video for our county fair. Aug.13, I think.
The content would need to be approved of course.

We need to start informing hunters and spur discussions.
Please let me know how I can help.

 

[Riggsgwp->]

Steve, great video and I really like the idea of simple content. Your example of neighbor does really hits home with me. I will gladly let does walk on my place as many spend a fair amount of time on my land and my sister in laws land next door as well as drop fawns here. I have one particular doe that lives in a quarter acre briar patch across the road and the bitch always walks across the road right at dark and snorts at me when I try and set up on her. She eats my food and my trees and alerts every deer in the area when I'm hunting her so the second I can buy an extra tag I will kill her and possibly her offspring as well. She's on my hitlist as they say in the pro hunting world.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I'll be honest. Using big words and citing all sorts of cryptic research makes a person sound really smart. If you want them to understand what you are saying, Keep It Simple Stupid works by far best for me, and is almost always the most effective route to getting something done.

This is something that I have recommended as well. The attention span of the general population is so freaking low that you have to keep the message very simple and very short so people can remember it. The message up where I hunt simply needs to be MORE DEER. Doesnt matter how big or if they are bucks or does, we just need more.

 

[wildfire]

Even a Prius can help.

 

[Riggsgwp->]

There has been an increase in the herd here as well (still not what it should be though). I just checked the neighbor's 1.5+ acre of beans that were planted in early June...apparently we can't grow that small of a plot here either. Not much over 6" high...overseeded the plot with a brassica mix today.

Agree with the "still not many good bucks" too...I've got nothing worth looking twice at on cam. Yearling bucks here seem to largely be spikes or forks, not good.

So what's the game plan once you get a lot more deer? Do you have more areas to open up for food? I feel like my numbers are better this year as well, but I can feed a lot of deer with approx. 8-10 acres of food plots. 1-2 acre bean plots get browsed on my place but not overbrowsed. There is a lot of food variety which helps. I also feel like we can house a lot of deer on the 3 surrounding properties which no one hunts on. I don't think I want quite as many deer as some of you want but that's because my trees are still young and it was a big investment to get them where they're at.

 

[biglakeba$$]

For us, I am not sure what is the right amount of deer. I have plenty of food as well. Lots of trees planted.

I just want to be able to go out and sit and see a deer more often. The past handful of years, I would say on archdery stand we have a run rate of 75% of sits we do not see a deer. A few years ago, I saw 2 or 3 deer total all fall while on my bowstand. Thats beyond despicable.

 

[Riggsgwp->]

That's how I feel as well BLB. I would like to see more deer when on stand. I would hope that would lead to better bucks over time but not counting on it. Once I see heavy over browsing on my trees and food plots I will begin to harvest does again on a regular basis.

 

[biglakeba$$]

Bigger bucks really isnt a major concern for me any more. APR and such went out the window for me a few years ago.

I just want to see a frickin deer every now and then.

 

[Riggsgwp->]

I often think about the comparison of zone 215 vs. 218 where I used to hunt. Parts of 215 have the ability to produce a lot more dpsm then 218 ever will simply due to less hunting pressure and more cover. Areas of 218 have hunters stacked up like cordwood shooting any deer within range and there was times when I'd hear 10+ shots at one running deer. Maybe the regulations have evened the numbers between the two but with conservative seasons I feel like our area of 215 has the ability to take off in numbers.

 

[MNAaron]

Brooks I am in let me know how I can assist

 

[bat man]

Brooks I am in let me know how I can assist

I will be leaning on this crew for help. I truly think this will be easier than what we have done because it can grow 'viral'. The info we have mined in the past 1.5 years is solid gold when dummied down to the masses.

If you know the facts, guilt will replace reward when killing excessive anterless deer. You will know it is wrong, and others will be quick to remind you.

 

[MNAaron]

If you want to grab a beer and burger sometime let me know. It was fun last time. Heck bring along BLB again. In town a week or so then will be north full time.

 

[biglakeba$$]

Heck bring along BLB again

Bring the village idiot with..... Geez!!!! LOLLLL.

This time maybe I wont have to work from the F'ing bar as much......

 

[sandbur]

This is the numbers example and story I have used. I know there are a lot of assumptions and its rudimentary but it shows what exponential population growth can do if the breeders are not killed off. I’m sure the experts have a better tool but I thought I would post it anyway.
___________________________________________________________________________
This hunting season you let adult doe number 1 walk. Let’s call her Stacey
Stacey….Deer count at 1
Year 1 after letting Stacey walk she has twins, Lisa and Jake.
Stacey, Lisa, Jake…Deer count at 3
Year 2 after letting Stacey walk she has twin again, Amy and Chuck
Stacey, Lisa, Jake, Amy, Chuck…Deer count at 5
Year 3 after letting Stacey walk she has one, Thomas. Lisa has twins, Candi and Dirk. Amy has one, Judy.
Stacey, Lisa, Jake, Amy, Chuck, Candi, Dirk, Thomas, Judy…Deer count at 9
By letting one adult doe walk it caused the population to grow from 1 to 9 or 9X in three years. Let’s be conservative and say over the three seasons all the bucks from Stacey are all killed and Lisa gets hit by a car. The count is still at 4 or 4X the population from 3 years ago, all because you let Stacey walk this year.
NOT Killing an adult doe(s) this season WILL make a HUGE difference on your property

Good to see you back, Jeff. Missed your comments!

 

[sandbur]

^^^I agree that this area has the habitat and lower hunter numbers to take off...but I remain highly dubious that will ever be allowed to occur. I do not desire a ridiculously large deer herd, make this unit the same as 214 at 20 dpsm pre-fawn (a legitimate 20 dpsm...not some DNR fabricated BS) and I'd be pretty satisfied.

Many Mn. hunters would be smiling ear to ear with 20 dpsm, prefawn. Some would even pass on yearling bucks if they saw an occasional older buck or if they felt they could shoot a doe instead and not seriously hurt the population.

Where I live, 15 dpsm would be adequate. prefawn and accurate numbers, not paper deer.

 

[sandbur]

VIP=Village Idiot Professional

 

[biglakeba$$]

Ok.... Enough already Art!!!! :P