Foodplot Stand - Transfered from the QDMA forum

[yoderjac]

When I was younger, I loved to use climbing and hang-on type stands, but as I'm getting a bit older, I feel safer in ladder stands. I hope there will come a point when I'm still hunting but don't feel comfortable in a ladder stand. When I was younger, my primary focus was harvesting mature bucks, but over time, my focus has shifted to bringing youngsters into the sport.
So, I started building some elevated box blinds. My first few were focused on supporting kids. I made them 6'x8' and 8'x8'. I like the elevation because it takes some of the scent issues out of the equation when dealing with kid and I like both the safety enhancement of shooting at a downward angle and a low exit wound makes for easier blood trailing. I built these with stairs so that I could take young kids as well as older ones. 6'x8' and 8'x8' boxes allow for plenty of space to maneuver to help a kid. The down side is the expense. If you search some of the other threads, you'll find some pictures of these stands.
I now have enough of these 2-man elevated stands to take kids. I'm now shifting focus to building them for my later years of hunting. I've decided that 6'x6' is sufficient for me and it significantly reduces cost. I've also made a couple templates to allow me to construct these more quickly and by myself.
Template 1: Ground Template
The ground template is made from aluminum angle iron and some corner brackets. It is used to mark the positions for footers. I simply lay it on the ground. I then adjust the orientation considering where I will eventually put windows and the door and angle the stand just how I want it give the vegetation and terrain. Once positioned, I put safety flags at each corner. The Ground Template is designed so the flags end up right in the middle of each footer.
Step 1: Footers
I spray some orange marking paint where each flag pin enters the ground. I then use my tractor auger to auger a hole about 2' deep. I then use 8" round cement forms in each hole. I cut them and only place them part way in the hole. I then pound rebar into the hole so it is just below the top of the form. I place the ground template back on top of the forms and then use a level. I adjust the forms so the ground template sitting on top is level in all directions. It doesn't have to be perfect because the corner posts can always be cut. I then fill the forms with cement and allow it to cure.
Template 2: Post Holder Template.
This consists two 8' 2x6s and 2 8' 2x4s. The 2x6s sit on the cement forms parallel to each other on the 2" side. I use hurricane ties set so the insides of the ties are exactly 6' apart. The 2x4s sit on top of the 2x6s in the hurricane ties and are set so the 2x6s are exactly 6' apart. The Post Holder Template then has mending plates sticking up from the sides of the 2x6 about 3/4 of the way between the hurricane ties. A 2x4 is then set on top of the 2x6 between the plates. It is elevated enough so it will swivel and a single 3" screw goes through one plate, the 2x4, and then the other plate. This allows the 2x4 to swivel up. You'll see this if you look closely at the picture. These plates and swiveling 2x4s are place on the other sides where needed.
Step 2: Setting the corner posts.
I first start decking screws through the 2x6 and 2x4 of the post holder template at the corner. I then lift the 4x4 post onto the footer. I slide it tight into the corner and then finish screwing in the screws thorough the template. This holds the post in place long enough for me to level and secure it. I then use a level to ensure the post is level in one direction. I swivel the 2x4 held by the mending plates up about 5' and screw it into the level 4x4. I then level it in the other direction and repeat the process with the 2x4 tied to the mending plates on the other side. The result is a corner post standing straight. I then move to the second post. This time I only need to use one 2x4 tied to a mending plate because I can tie the 2x4 brace to the first post in the other direction. I work my way around until all 4 posts are set and held in place by each other and the template.
Step 3: Installing Floor Headers and Slide Floor Joists.
I used 2x8s for the floor headers. I first measure up from the cement to where I want the bottom of my floor header and partially screw in a decking screw. I then place one end of my 6' 2x8 on the screw, place a level on it, and raise the other end until it is level. I then screw that end in with two decking screws (one near the top and one near the bottom of the 2x8) and then do the same on the other side removing the support screw. Because these headers will support the weight of everything above, I then drill and screw 1/2" x 6" carriage bolts and nuts in the center between the decking screws. Once I have the first header board in place, I next install the side floor joists. I place one end of the floor joist on the header, place a level on it, and raise the other end until level and screw it into the 4x4 with decking screws. I then screw in the other side with decking screws as well. I repeat the process with the other side floor joist. I then slide the other header board up under the side joists making sure it is tight and screw it in. It helps to place a support screw on one side so it is almost level before screwing in the other end. I use the same screw/carriage bolt configuration as with the other header.
That is all the further I got today. In fact I haven't actually added the bolts yet. I'd do that next time. Here is a picture of the stand so far. Note that the post holder template will eventually be removed and replaced by cross braces.

I'll update this tread as things progress.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Looking good Jack. One question. If you were in a colder climate would you want the footers to go down below frost level to keep them from heaving?

Yep. In our area, the frost line is about 18". I'm going down at least 24" and maybe a bit more.

Great thread for me, Jack. I hope to build one in the future when i get a better idea of where i want it. And good for you focusing on the kids. That is the life of our hunting heritage.
What is your total cost on this project?
Looking forward to watching it go up.

The 6'x8' and 8'x8' versions were between $1,000 and $1,200. I'm shooting for about $500 for these 6'x6' versions.
Here is where I see the savings coming:
1) I'm buying 12' lumber and cutting it to 6' rather than using 8' lumber.
2) I like Ondura for roofing. It is easy to install and durable and unlike metal quiet in the rain. It also provide a natural vent for updraft. The sheets are 4'x 6.5' but they require overlap. 6'x8' and 8'x8' required 3 or 4 sheets. I can use 2 sheets for 6'x6'.
3) On the 6'x8' and 8'x8' I built stairs. They are high enough that I needed long 2x12s and cut my own stringers. I then used 2x6x and 2x4s for the treads. They also required 2 more 4x4 posts and a railing. For these, I'm using a cantilever porch and repurposing old inexpensive ladder stands. I'll permanently attach the ladder stand to the box blind and put a handle on the box so I'll have a safe hold and be stepping down on to the porch. You'll see this in upcoming posts. So, the cost of stairs will be zeroed with this model.
4) I'm now buying the hardware in bulk (decking screws etc.)
The comfortable solid ladder stands I've been using lately run about $300 so for another $200 I'll be protected from the weather and concealed.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

Looking good. Funny how many of us have these same thoughts as we age. I built two 5x5s this year and assisted a friend with a 4x6. I would sketch out my plans and then lay awake at night thinking about how I could optimize board usage for minimal cost. :eek:
Look forward to the progress to catalog ideas for myself in the future!! :cool:

You're right. My mind is always racing when I'm in the process of building one of these trying to figure out how to improve them for less cost. The other thing my mind is always working on is exactly what I'm going to do the next day and whether I have all the supplies. There is nothing worse than getting out to the stand site and realize you forgot to grab the tool batteries from the barn. Or worse yet, realizing you are shore a couple $3 pieces of hardware and really can't proceed without a trip to Lowes.
One more thing I'm learning I need to change work process from the "balls to the wall" approach of my younger days to one of thoughtful moderation. I'm now learning to try to plan things so I work in the cool of the morning for a few hours taking breaks as needed and then picking up any supplies and resting in the heat of the day and then doing a bit more work in the cool of the evening.
I'm headed down tomorrow late afternoon and should get a few hours of work done in the evening. I'll post some pictures as things progress.
Thanks,
jack

 

[yoderjac]

I got to the farm in time to work for a couple hours tonight before dark. I made a bit more progress. Here are a couple pictures I took right before I called it a night:

I got the carriage bolts in the floor headers, installed the floor joists, and installed the roof header boards. The plywood sitting on the floor joists is not the actual flooring. It is just a temporary board I use while I'm working. I don't install the floor until later since it is OSB and doesn't handle rain well.
I'm now out of lumber, so my first task tomorrow is to get the lumber for the roof. Note, the template is still attaché din the picture. I'll keep it in place for stability just a bit longer until I get a bit more done. We'll see how far I get tomorrow and I'll take a few more pics.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

This is a very pertinent thread for many of us Jack. I look forward to all of the insight you are sharing as well as insights this thread will likely generate. On cutting costs does using lumber cut from native trees and sawn by a local portable band saw meet the needs of the currently bought kiln dried dimensional lumber at a lesser price for the framing portion of the stands?

I’m with you 100% on timing one’s efforts to the conditions outside. IE; it makes better sense to make purchase runs during the heat of the day in the air conditioned vehicle rather than during the cool morning hours and evening hours both of which are better utilized working on the project at that time.
Your idea of using 2 x 4's on swivels to position the posts is especially helpful.

As far as using the portable bandsaw for making your own dimensional lumber, I doubt it would be a cost savings if you buy it. Volume usually drives down pricing. If you do it yourself and don't count your labor you might save. For me, it wouldn't be worth it.
Unfortunately my timing was off. I really need to install the rafters next before removing the template and installing the permanent cross bracing. I ran out of lumber so it looks like I'll be headed to Lowes in the cool of the morning and working in the heat of the day (if I can) or waiting until evening to work. Fortunately the area is relatively shaded so I can probably just pace myself.
One thing I'm toying with is siding. I've always used Brown unfinished engineered panels ( Lowes Link ) because they are less expensive. I wonder if the extra $6 per sheet is worth it for the Series 38 ( http://www.lowes.com/pd/SmartSide-3...tual-0-315-in-x-48-563-in-x-95-875-in/3058153 )
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

The number 38 looks like a slam dunk by it's description and reviews. The painting reduction alone will save some money and time that may make up for the extra $6 per sheet in cost. It is shocking to see how expensive T-111 has become but do remember how heavy it is to lift. I'll be sure to checkout number 38 on my next trip to Lowes.

Cool thread, I'm liking this read. Those #38 do look like a good idea.

I headed to lowes to pickup some more lumber and supplies and then got to work. In the following picture, I've added the rafters and purlins for the roof:

All of the floor joists and rafters are tied in with hurricane ties except those directly screwed to the 4x4s.
Next, I removed the template and temporary bracing then added the permanent cross braces. I was two cross braces short. I'll add those tomorrow.

I looked at the 38 when I was at lowes. The back of it looks like OSB. I'm not convinced the extra cost is worth it.
Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I finished the permanent cross bracing this morning. Note that I used the tops of the 4x4s that were cut off from the posts after I installed the purlins on the rafters. This really stabilizes the stand very well. I like to do this before leaning a tall ladder against the roof header boards to install the roof. With my body weight that high leaning on the stand, it is important that it is stable.

Thanks,
Jack

 

[yoderjac]

After finishing the cross bracing in the previous post, I started working on the roof and shooting rails. I had one stray shower move through but it didn't drop much rain. It as actually quite cooling. I finished the roof about 2:30 in the afternoon so I headed out to a restaurant near Lowes for a late lunch and then went to Lowes. I bought the siding and OSB for floor. The price on the siding panels I had be using went up a couple bucks making the price difference between them and the 38s smaller. So, I decided to pony up the extra money and bought 38s.
When I got back, I found a big rain storm had come through while I was gone. There were deep puddles everywhere. Fortunately I had the roof done. I don't use a fixed measurement for my shooting rails and windows. You can see the office chair in the picture below. I use the actual chair I will be hunting from to position windows exactly where I want them give the terrain and vegetation.
Here is where I left things at the end of the day:

Well, for those of you who don't know yet and happen to be reading this, it is the end of the world as we know it....and I feel fine!
https://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74474
Thanks,
Jack

 

[strawhead]

I'm getting where those look better and better every year.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Nice project and glad you joined us over here! I always enjoy reading your posts.

 

[j-bird]

I love "shooting houses" especially for crappy weather or for taking kids. I have 2 home-made ones that pale in comparison to what Jack is building, but they work. Biggest issue I have seen with them is that they tend to get over-hunted.....because it's easier to stay dry, warm and you can take a nap if you really want to!

 

[chickenlittle]

http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/portable-tower-stand.1901/

Here is one we made about 5 or 6 years ago. Needs some new tar paper on the exterior since those photos were taken. It is portable, built on two telephone pole skids. It has been moved 3 times since we built it. It now sits about 50 yards out in a hay field. With the wide base and weight on the base, it is quite sturdy even in the wind. Great stand for rifle season, we take one or two deer from it every year. I plan to make some more fixed stands over a couple apple plots for archery and late season muzzleloader but probably not for another year or two.

 

[HoleHopper]

Glad you brought this thread over jack. Looking good!


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[Natty Bumppo]

Glad to see this thread transferred over. I was following it. Looking good.

 

[BigJ]

My buddy (woodduck) and I built three of these last year on my farm (one 4x6 and two 4x4). Turned out really nice and a big improvement over ladder stands in the sleet and freezing rain. We built them in two phases. Pre-built bases and walls back at the shop. Built the bases on skids so they could be dragged to each sight then each just needed assembled.








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[yoderjac]

My buddy (woodduck) and I built three of these last year on my farm (one 4x6 and two 4x4). Turned out really nice and a big improvement over ladder stands in the sleet and freezing rain. We built them in two phases. Pre-built bases and walls back at the shop. Built the bases on skids so they could be dragged to each sight then each just needed assembled.

--- pics removed from quote


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Very nice! I like the mobility aspect. I typically put a ground blind in a spot for a couple years to determine how viable it is for a permanent stand and exactly where I want it and what orientation. While vegetation changes over time, topology doesn't. Once I place a stand, I've been pretty happy with the year on year performance, but mobility is another way to accomplish it.

From the pics, those stands look like they are small. I'm guessing 4x4. That is sufficient for rifle hunting, but I use mine for multiple purposes. I found that 6x6 is about right for me. I can use a compound bow, a cross-bow, muzzleloader or shotgun (no rifles in my county). I couldn't draw a bow in a 4x4.

Those windows look like the swing in and up out of the way. I tried that but I found that for close encounters, I need the stand to function like a blind that is dark inside and you don't get silhouetted. I found that with windows removed or that swing in out of the way, the sun can com directly into the stand. Again, for rifle hunting this probably doesn't matter much. Later when I post more pictures as I complete it, you will see I like windows that swing out and up and prop open. These act to shade in incoming sun from directly reflecting off the hunter.

It is interesting how stand designs can be so different but well adapted to the particular application. For example, guy in the north might want it to help keep them warm. In my area, I want mine to stay cool.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I got back to work on my stand today, but no pics to report. I spent the entire day painting, cutting, and transporting the panels. I hope to make some progress worth a pic tomorrow.

Thanks,

jack

 

[yoderjac]

I got enough accomplished this morning to take a couple pics. I first installed the floor. It is just OSB. While it shouldn't be exposed much, I painted it anyway:

Next I got 3 lower panels and the front upper panel installed:

I ran some errands and am resting during the heat of the day but plan to get back on it this evening.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I headed back out about 5:30 and worked until about 8:00 this evening. I made a bit more progress. The stand is mostly enclosed. I still have windows and doors to complete.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Rally1148]

I headed back out about 5:30 and worked until about 8:00 this evening. I made a bit more progress. The stand is mostly enclosed. I still have windows and doors to complete.

Thanks,

Jack

Jack,

You use windows that wide for bowhunting? Do you put burlap over some of them so that you are hiding your movement? Even when rifle hunting I always worry about my silhouette.