Design Thoughts

[TjdUSAF]

Hey folks, Getting started doing improvements on our property. Western Finger Lakes area of New York. 46 acres some select logging done along west line a few years ago. The beech shoots sprung up so bad the DEC came in and sprayed to knock them back.... so the majority of the Northen section of our property is mature parkland and holds little interest to deer other than nighttime travel and some acorn picking.

My thinking, after reading gazzillions of posts here, is to fill the need that deer are lacking right now. The big yellow circles are known bedding, especially the ones marked 1 and 2. The big problem with 1 and 2 is they don't get hunted at all so those deer rarely venture up the hill to our property. The other bedding areas do get hunted but sporadically.

The whole map is roughly 250 acres.... our slice highlighted in white is 46. Very little agriculture within a mile in any direction.

We have a meadow where the orange circle is and our camp is the red circle. Plan on a foodplot this spring, that meadow is about 1/2 acre.

so does it make sense to add to bedding or add to food? I feel that by opening up the woods with a goal leaning to releasing the ground,creating browse and additional plot areas, we may be able to bed the deer off site but make our property the feed and travel center. We have one slope that is probably 5 acres of mature maple that could be a foodplot of its own by cutting those things down.

Am I on a good track or one that will lead to frustration?

 

[Buckly]

I don't think it's a good idea to feed the deer and have them bed off site. Actually you want the opposite.. It looks like you have room for food and also bedding. I would create both.

 

[shawnv]

I might agree with Buckly but only having 46 acres and the shape of your land and the amount of surrounding timber I'm not sure how well you can compete with that so I see you as having more opportunity offering food. Maybe a long skinny plot running north to south on the east end the runs into the meadow and another from west to east that is long and skinny running into the meadow. If you can still enter and exit stands ok, you might be able to build some doe bedding close to the plot and catch bucks checking the back side of that and food. I honestly think all the bedding is close enough as is and would focus on stand access and making some deer highways from bedding to your food that give you an opportunity to shoot deer.

 

[bueller]

I'll second the suggestion to create both food and bedding. If I can do it on 20 acres you can do it on 46. How many hunters do you have?

 

[TjdUSAF]

I'll second the suggestion to create both food and bedding. If I can do it on 20 acres you can do it on 46. How many hunters do you have?

Typically 3....

I'm not totally opposed to bedding.... We can hinge the whole North line and from the Northwest corner south to the first corner with out losing much in stand locations... But the central area of the property has so much food potential I'm considering not focusing on bedding.

Thanks for the thoughts so far!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bueller]

If you are bringing equipment in to create plots I would consider leaving the meadow alone as it creates diversity and edge cover in your big woods situation. If possible I would make a 1/2 acre foodplot north/northeast of the meadow and another 1/2 acre plot west/northwest of the meadow. Clearcut a ring around those plots to provide additional sunlight and browse. I'd wager that doe family groups will begin to bed in the area of those plots. The downwind edges and trails connecting the plots and meadow should provide good ambush points during the rut.

 

[bueller]

Also bedding areas dont have to be huge. Small pockets of thick conifers will be used as bedding. I've got a area that's maybe 2 acres of young red pines less than 100 yards from the edge of my "yard" and there are always deer bedding in there.

 

[TjdUSAF]

Also bedding areas dont have to be huge. Small pockets of thick conifers will be used as bedding. I've got a area that's maybe 2 acres of young red pines less than 100 yards from the edge of my "yard" and there are always deer bedding in there.

Yes... And just off our South and east lines there are nice pine thickets!

That's what started me thinking about just letting them lie there. I like the way you're thinking by tucking some bedding near the meadow...We can use your design thought and try to capitalize on movement from the eastern pine thicket to our meadow food plot. Create 3 nice feeder trails in an east to west orientation, a few little pockets of snack plots along the way, and a buck trail in a south to north orientation...... We have good access and stand locations for South, East, and North winds....

And I also like the thought of adding a plot area NNE of the meadow and connecting it to the meadow. There's a pretty good slope just west of the meadow that runs toward the North East so the food plan to the WNW of the meadow is to use that west facing slope and start some fruit trees. There's already a few wild apple trees that just need some releasing and pruning.

I definitely plan on scratching an LC mix in the meadow but will keep your thought of diversification in mind... Maybe do some trimming back of trees along the perimeter and then bringing some edge feathering down from a little further back.....

Thanks for giving me a chance to get thoughts out of my head and out in the open where I can look at them!


Here's a thought for the SE corner Green triangle is tree stand, red are deer trails, black lines shooting lanes, Blue Triangle a tucked ground blind in rose thicket,



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[strawhead]

I have a couple more questions, to get you thinking.
1)What is your deer density?
2)What kind of pressure on yours and adjoining?
3)Any large swamps or creek bottoms within a mile?
We have 80 acres with public forest lands surrounding. There are doe groups that will travel more than a mile to come to the food plots. With little ag around you it won't take long for 8-12 deer to heavily browse an acre of diverse feed.

 

[TjdUSAF]

Deer density is high... Not sure of number but 2014 harvest numbers for NYS WMU 8N were 5.9 bucks and 18.3 deer harvested per square mile.

I can tell you it's unlikely that was accomplished within a square mile of our property based on talking to neighbors.

Our pressure is minimal.... Weekends from 1 Oct- mid Dec.... 2-4 hunters taking above average steps to go undetected. We also have a few other properties to hunt so we don't pound this one from sunup-sundown day after day .... Adjoining pressure: guys to the south have a gorgeous property but tend to show up, put on drives, and leave. Most of the east line gets hunted. Off the Northeast corner about 100 yards is the SW corner of a 65 acre parcel that gets some pressure regularly. The North Line has 1 property line sitter that we just ignore. And like i said, our west boundary doesn't get any Hunter traffic.

Due west about 3/4 mile is a large swampy outlet of Canadice lake. A lot of brushy parcels between us and that area.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bowsnbucks]

If you plant any food plots within sight of your property lines, you may want to consider planting spruce & pines to block the views of " line sitters ". Also - any big, mature maples you cut down will bring sunlight to the ground, and you'll get free natural growth of seedlings, native shrubs, and lots of stump shoots on the maple stumps. Those will be browse/food/cover as they thicken up. New growth is food too - not just the planted, clover - brassica - oats kind. We just completed 2 timber cuts at my camp in NC Pa. and we have loads of stump shoots and natural seedlings popping up all over. The trees we cut down were 98% maple with a few oaks and pines. We'll cage some of the stumps to keep the deer off those stump shoots to grow thicker cover. You could easily do that for free ( cost ) and get a few $$$ from sale of timber to fund apple tree purchases, plot seed, etc.

Your description of mature " park -like " woods is just what we had, and have now cut down and eliminated. Deer didn't like our wide open woods either. We left the tops to further protect new seedlings from deer until they can get a good start. We're also planting some Norway spruce in the cut to create pockets of bedding/security cover. You don't need hundreds of acres to make your place a deer magnet !! ( See Bueller, posts #4 & #7 ). ^^^^^^

 

[TjdUSAF]

If you plant any food plots within sight of your property lines, you may want to consider planting spruce & pines to block the views of " line sitters ". Also - any big, mature maples you cut down will bring sunlight to the ground, and you'll get free natural growth of seedlings, native shrubs, and lots of stump shoots on the maple stumps. Those will be browse/food/cover as they thicken up. New growth is food too - not just the planted, clover - brassica - oats kind. We just completed 2 timber cuts at my camp in NC Pa. and we have loads of stump shoots and natural seedlings popping up all over. The trees we cut down were 98% maple with a few oaks and pines. We'll cage some of the stumps to keep the deer off those stump shoots to grow thicker cover. You could easily do that for free ( cost ) and get a few $$$ from sale of timber to fund apple tree purchases, plot seed, etc.

Your description of mature " park -like " woods is just what we had, and have now cut down and eliminated. Deer didn't like our wide open woods either. We left the tops to further protect new seedlings from deer until they can get a good start. We're also planting some Norway spruce in the cut to create pockets of bedding/security cover. You don't need hundreds of acres to make your place a deer magnet !! ( See Bueller, posts #4 & #7 ). ^^^^^^

Exactly what I'm looking forward to.... quite frankly, we waited two too many years..... I saw the signs of what the canopy was doing and didn't act aggressive enough. And when we had the beech sprout eruption after a logging and subsequent spray treatment to control it we were really dealt a blow on this property.

So we'll take chainsaws and Silky Zubats and tip a lot of stuff over!!.... You can see kind of a lighter brown swath extending SW to NE above the orange circle.... that's all parklike maple so we'll release a lot of what you describe by getting after that area. And down the hill due west of the meadow 100-150 yards is a smaller area that's primarily parklike maple that extends to our south neighbors.

below the row of Norway Spruce east of the camps looks like the pic below.... we just don't have enough of this.....

 

[Bowsnbucks]

TjdUSAF - Sunlight will do wonders for you. If you have any wild blackberry or raspberry there, you'll probably get those popping up from birds pooping seeds all around. Those are good to have around too - deer will browse the tender, thornless shoots. We whacked down a couple white pines that were blocking sun on the south ( sunny ) side of an old apple tree surrounded by pines. The sunlight alone - no fertilizer - made that tree put out a LOAD of blossoms and apples this year when it hadn't had any for the last 4 or 5 years. I took a lesson from a couple of other N.Y. state guys on here that released a batch of their old apple trees and reported their great results. IT WORKS !!!

Your project will be an interesting one to watch develop. It's work - but it's FUN work !! Lots of good info to be had on here by many guys who have done or are doing habitat work. Keep us posted.

 

[TjdUSAF]

I will....

I don't see a lot of blackberry anywhere... I think the wild rose eats them.....

And yes, as much as guys recommend planting pines/spruce, I plan on taking a bunch out because they are mature and just casting too much of a shadow in my opinion.... Look at all the green blobs around our meadow....

I'll be on property this weekend and will sit and stare and plan and stare and plan....

Here's an idea about how the area just north of the meadow looks now....

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bill]

How do you access your camp?

If you're driving from the road to the west half the property is alarmed when you come in. I know camps are tough to move but if it rustic....?

Just something to consider in a grand plan. Also I wouldn't want to drive through a food plot every time I came and went.

 

[TjdUSAF]

How do you access your camp?

If you're driving from the road to the west half the property is alarmed when you come in. I know camps are tough to move but if it rustic....?

Just something to consider in a grand plan. Also I wouldn't want to drive through a food plot every time I came and went.

It's got an inground pool!!! So it's not moveable....

Yes access is a problem but we do have a route along the south line and then a right up the gut.... Interestingly enough, the last two months saw a 30/30 split on east and west winds while south was 40 and North was 20.... So we are mindful of the wind when deciding which property to hunt. We do not have any other possible access.....

This is part of the reason I consider my original concept of using off property bedding.... Gives us a little more room to squeeze into stands. As I've seen on other properties, the best habitat is within a pitching wedge of the camps.... The camp above us has two barking dogs and the deer just skirt their Invisible Fence for N/S travel..... I plan to hinge the hell out of that area to try and nudge the deer more up the hill and take that protected travel away. They'll also bed right behind our camp.... It is what it is.

But because there are people living close by year round we can get away with some scent, I can smell my neighbor when he's outside smoking and observe deer that are used to it.... And yes some slammer bucks are hanging out downwind of the neighbors activities as well.... It's all part of their world.

And if by drive you mean ATV, NO, we walk.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TjdUSAF]

Here's my thinking after some pondering.... Contour lines added, current woods road is white loop, Red Swiggles hinge cut tornado zone, White Swiggles will be some bedding hinging, Black circles are neighbors houses..... the left part of woods road was the skid trail the loggers created and there are several openings scattered about that we can add some small food plots...

Thoughts?

 

[TjdUSAF]

And this be the general area to frovide food

 

[TjdUSAF]

Got started yesterday by clearing some pockets in areas with high stem count and an area behind my son's favorite stand for a kill plot.....
Next step will be to connect these with some sidewalks to encourage travel where we want them....

 

[Bill]

Careful with the tornado zone. If you already know what I'm about to say ignore me. I just hate to see anyone make a mistake with a chainsaw that is very hard to correct.

Hinge cuts at knee height block a deers movements, hinge cuts at shoulder height offer bedding. Both have value but there usage does not interchange.

Sidewalk trees get cut perpendicular to the side walk so deer can get in and out. Cutting so trees they lay horizontal with the sidewalk makes them feel trapped and they won't use it.

Like I said if you knew that ignore me. If not I may have saved you some headache. :)