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Chestnut mold in container

sjjbib

Yearling... With promise
This is my first post hear, I have done a bunch of searching but haven't exactly found my answer. I recently just purchased 55 acres and there is plenty of room to plant some hybrid chestnuts, Since I was late to the start the only place I could find nuts to plant was on ebay, They said the seeds were ready to plant, there was no root growth at this time, But I figured I would just get them in some trays, and put them under some shop lights.

The nuts have only been planted for a week or so, and I have watered sparingly, I planted some nuts under the potting mix, and some slightly pushed in. So I am now noticing mold around many of the nuts, and potting mix.

Is this a lost cause, or is there anything I can do to try and save this ?? I have read some stuff about scooping out the mold and washing the nuts, Also read something about a light bleach solution, apple cider vinegar ??
 
I have been doing some more reading, I am thinking of maybe getting some fresh potting mix, removing all the nuts, and giving them a wash with a 1 to 10 bleach water ratio, I have also read something about hydrogen peroxide. I cant seem to find a answer. I am sure this mold is a killer of this project.

********I contacted the ebay seller, She is saying that mold is normal before the seeds sprout**********

I will sit tight and hopefully get some advise.
 
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I tried that once and it was a disaster. There was a reaction between the chestnut shell and the bleach. It burned the hair off my knuckles. It did not help the nuts.

I find that bleach is not effective. You likely did nothing wrong. When nuts get exposed to mold at the collection source, you are going to have mold issues. I have received nuts from two different sources in the same year, cared for them exactly the same, and one set had horrible mold issues and the others had near zero mold.

Once mold has taken hold, there is not much you can do, I would simply wash the nuts in running water removing what mold you can. I would then plant them just under the mix in 18s. What germinates, germinates. Some will germinate with mold, but not many.

As for your seller....mold is only normal when chestnuts are not collected and stored properly. Even when they are, if weather conditions are ripe for mold at the collection source, you can still have problems.

Consider this year as a learning experience and see what you get. I've had great success buying Dunstan nuts from Chestnut ridge of Pike County.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Jack, Thanks for the reply, I sent a picture to seller and she is being very reasonable, She suggested washing nuts off as you said and placing in fresh potting soil. She also said if they don't sprout she would send me some more nuts.

I just pulled all the nuts out of the trays, (I had one sprouting out of 52) I washed all the nuts with tap water. I am about to run to lowes to pick up a fresh bag of potting mix. And I will go from there.
 
Buying potting soil from lowes can be a problem as well. Some potting soils are designed to hold moisture. You want something just the opposite for chestnuts. I've used promix bx and fafard 3B with success. You are looking for a well drained mix.
 
I have read some post about this promix, I did some searching and cant find any. All we really have is lowes or Walmart. There are some smaller green houses, but they are closed this time of year... I will have to make do with what I have... Like you said earlier this year will be a learning curve...
 
You can make your own mix. The key is to have a well drained mix that does not retain water. Some mixes like miracle grow are specifically designed to retain water. You want to avoid those.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Jack, I started looking on amazon, Looks like I can get the mix there, and have it in a few days. I was reading through them and the 2nd one is HP slightly cheaper and the description looks like what I need. But you had suggested bx and I want to make sure I get the appropriate stuff.
Thanks

https://www.amazon.com/Premier-Hort...words=promix+soil&refinements=p_85:2470955011

https://www.amazon.com/Premier-Hort...UTF8&qid=1488113700&sr=8-2&keywords=promix+hp
 
Home depot sells peat,vermiculite, and perlite separately in 2.5-3.5 L bags

Mix your own at 1:1:1 ratio as recommended by American chestnut foundation

This produces a very light and well drained mix in my experience

bill
 
Bill, Thanks for the information, I don't have a home depot ! The Closest is a hour drive plus a 25 dollar ferry ticket !! I will look these ingredients up at my lowes to see if they have it, If not I will just order the promix online.....
Thanks
 
The promix HP works fine. I believe that is what Wayne uses.

There is another reason for using a well drained mix like this. It creates lots of tiny voids in the container. When the 18s air prune the tap root it start a lot of upstream secondary and tertiary branching. When a container becomes difficult to water, you know it is time to transplant to the next size root pruning container. The roots have completely filled the voids in the mix and water infiltration becomes very slow.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Jack, thanks for the information, I will order the pro mix today, and it will be hear Wednesday, I will replant again then !! I wish I would have found this forum before I would have jumped into this.... Lots of great information. Again thanks for your help !
 
Here are the basics for starting chestnuts indoors.

1) They need 60 to 90 days of cold stratification. This can be done by washing them, hydrating them well, and placing them in Ziploc bags with long-fiber sphagnum peat moss. You soak the long-fiber sphagnum and then squeeze all the water you can by making a fist. That is about the right dampness level. Close the bag half way and fold it over and put it in the crisper. Mold moves quickly from nut to nut, so I only do about a dozen nuts in each bag. If I get a mold issue it limits spread.

2) You can either direct seed them in the fall letting nature do the cold stratification, cold stratify in the fridge and direct seed them in the spring, or start them indoors. For starting them indoors you need lights, a series of root pruning containers, a professional mix, Osmocote fertilizer, and rain water.

3) The first container size is the Rootmaker 18 express tray. It will prune the tap root and is good for the first 12-16 weeks. You can cold stratify them for the proper amount of time and plant them all in 18s at the same time or you can let them develop tap roots in the fridge and plant them as the germinate. Keep in mind that if you do the latter, you need to check them often and plant them as soon as you see the first sign of a radicle or control their orientation in some way while in the fridge. If you change orientations radically, the root will shift directions forming a kink. You want to avoid that.

4) Plant them in the corner of 18s with the pointed end in the middle of the container. I like to put mine just under the medium so they are covered. Both the root radicle and stem form from that tip so they will be centered in the 18.

5) The most critical part is watering. The need to be damp to germinate but moisture also sets the conditions for mold. Chestnuts like acidic soil but mixes are adjusted to neutral. Using rain water will slowly adjust the pH just right for chestnuts. City water is usually neutral and sometimes has salts and other chemistry that trees don't like. It depends on your location. Well water may work but take it before any water softener. To water them, drench 18s. They are so well drained with the holes in the bottom and the professional mix that you can't give them too much water but you can water too often. Water should be dripping from the lowest center holes of the 18s when you are done watering them. Then wait for them to dry out a bit before watering again. If you pick up an 18 with promix and another with promix that just has been watered, you will notice a weight difference. Consider weight one full of water and the other empty. You don't want the tank to hit empty but you don't want to fill it too soon. Wait until the weight is about 20% or so between the empty and full weights before drenching them again. Trying to water on a schedule does not work. They consume water and different rates at different growth stages. Eventually you'll be able to tell easily. If leaves ever droop, water immediately, you let the get a little too dry.

6) Light and temperature are important. Don't try to start trees in a greenhouse in or a window in December or Jan. The light is too low in the sky. Seedlings may look fine on top but the root systems are horrible. You don't need expensive lights like the pot growers use. Seedlings only spend a fraction of their lives under artificial light. Light intensity diminishes with distance squared. I have found the most cost efficient lighting is to hand fluorescent shop lights so you can adjust their height easily. I have one grow area with 3 4' fluorescent shop lights that covers 4 trays of 18 and another with 4 lights that covers 6 trays of 18s. The nice thing about the Express trays is that although they are a bit more expensive than regular 18s, the cells are heavy duty and can be reused and more importantly, they can be rearranged in the tray. This lets you hang your lights so they are only 2" or 3" above all the trees they our organize by height. They lights can be angled to match the slope of the varying tree heights. When you setup your lights make sure you have enough height adjustability to accommodate the growth over 12-16 weeks. I shoot for a temperature around 70-80 degrees. High humidity can also help but it is a second order factor in my opinion. I used to focus much more on humidity than I do now.

7) I've tried planting directly from 18s in the spring and had very poor results. They just don't have enough of a root system yet. So, after 12-16 weeks, you will want to transplant to the next larger size root pruning container. I like to use 1 gal rootbuilder II containers myself for the next stag but I get maximum growth by keeping them on my deck for the first summer and doing a second transplant into 3 gal rootbuilder IIs and then eventually plant them from those in the fall. This thread explains that a bit more with pictures: http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?t...h-rootmakers-transfered-from-qdma-forum.5556/

Those are the basics but there is a lot of variation. Different folks do it differently with different levels of success. A lot may depend on your area. Things like growing season and soils can affect what techniques you choose. Hope this helps and there are lots of guys growing chestnuts on here that can answer specific questions as they come up. Everyone brings a unique perspective.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Bill, Thanks for the information, I don't have a home depot ! The Closest is a hour drive plus a 25 dollar ferry ticket !! I will look these ingredients up at my lowes to see if they have it, If not I will just order the promix online.....
Thanks
Lowes will sell those same products. You probably will not like the shipping cost if you attempt to buy promix online. I get the Promix HP (High Porosity).

Use Bill's 1 to 1 to 1 formula and you will be happy. Do Not pack the potting mix tight. Put the mix in the container and a few taps of the container on a hard surface gets it to settle.

If you wet the potting mix before you put it in the containers it can help the process. When you first water chestnuts or acorns in good, you might have to add a small amount of growing mix to the top of the container if the watering creates any settling. This is normal - so don't get excited.

We grow better when growing mix drains well and air can get to the roots. Water, oxygen, and sunlight drive the train down our track.

Good luck to you.

Wayne
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I can get a bag of the promix for about 35 bucks shipped through amazon and have it hear by Wednesday.... My lowes doesn't have vermiculite in stock, So I am just going to pay the little extra and get the promix for now.

I have about 50 nuts planted(Growing under lights as you described), But who knows how many will actually take. My plan was to get as many in the ground as I can, and put tree tubes on all of them in may. Of course another mistake I have apparently maid is I used regular 18 cell trays, I am debating just rolling with them for this year.... But you guys obviously use the rootmakers for a reason.... I could order them and just replant again when the soil and trays get hear....

Jack I have read through your process of stepping up the pot size, this make since, going with less trees but better root production. I see you are zone 7a, I am kinda in between zone 4b and 5a. My understanding is this the edge of chestnuts growing. I have a friend who has been ordering dunstan chestnuts bare root and planting a few per year with just caging them. (So I know they can be grown) My concern with fall planting is that my winters are much more harsh and most people seem to have better success with spring planting.... I think.... I am not sure if my thinking process is off, Part of me gets bigger roots make it easier to establish, But another part of me thinks the tree wont have enough time to establish before winter with fall planting... Obviously I don't really know what I am talking about. How about a late august planting ? Of course I could give it a shot, and do a mixture to find out for myself.... Any input is appreciated !
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I can get a bag of the promix for about 35 bucks shipped through amazon and have it hear by Wednesday.... My lowes doesn't have vermiculite in stock, So I am just going to pay the little extra and get the promix for now.

I have about 50 nuts planted(Growing under lights as you described), But who knows how many will actually take. My plan was to get as many in the ground as I can, and put tree tubes on all of them in may. Of course another mistake I have apparently maid is I used regular 18 cell trays, I am debating just rolling with them for this year.... But you guys obviously use the rootmakers for a reason.... I could order them and just replant again when the soil and trays get hear....

Jack I have read through your process of stepping up the pot size, this make since, going with less trees but better root production. I see you are zone 7a, I am kinda in between zone 4b and 5a. My understanding is this the edge of chestnuts growing. I have a friend who has been ordering dunstan chestnuts bare root and planting a few per year with just caging them. (So I know they can be grown) My concern with fall planting is that my winters are much more harsh and most people seem to have better success with spring planting.... I think.... I am not sure if my thinking process is off, Part of me gets bigger roots make it easier to establish, But another part of me thinks the tree wont have enough time to establish before winter with fall planting... Obviously I don't really know what I am talking about. How about a late august planting ? Of course I could give it a shot, and do a mixture to find out for myself.... Any input is appreciated !

I would continue with the regular 18s for this year, but here is a trick you might want to consider. I started with the regular 18s like you until I found out about the express trays. I ordered a single express tray from John at Big Rock with no cells. I then used heavy duty scissors to carefully cut the regular 18s. If you cut through the middle of the plastic between cells, you can then put those individual cells in the try and reorganize them as you need. I continued to use those regular 18s for a couple seasons even after I bought express trays with cells. After a couple seasons, the regular 18 cells were not longer useable. The express cells that come with the 18s don't seem to wear at all. It is a different kind of plastic. At any rate, this is one option to give you the functionality of the express trays this year.

As for fall planting, you could be right that it is not a best practice in your zone. I also have trees that can't be fall planted. Pawpaw is an example. They are photosensitive an need to be grown in shade for two seasons but produce best when in full sun. So, I grew them for the first year on my lower deck which is shaded. I then overwintered them in my cold room. It is simply a room in my basement that is walled off from the rest of the heated basement. I open an outdoor window and adjust the size of the opening as needed to keep that room cold but above freezing. The next season I grew them on my deck in larger containers and again put them in the cold room. Folks tell me pawpaw are better spring planted, so I'm planting them this spring.

You could do something similar with Dunstans. You don't need to worry about photosensitivity (other than the normal acclimation between indoor lights and sun). However you could grow them for one season on your deck, overwinter them in a cold room, and dormant plant them the following spring. Just an idea to consider for your zone. I find low success planting from 18s in the spring. Starting trees earlier indoors (Dec for me) and planting them from 1 gals in the spring increase success, but the best success for me has been keeping them in rootmakers for the first growing season at least. Root pruned trees have some real advantages, but you need a significant size rootball for them to thrive.

Hope this helps,

Jack
 
Jack, Thanks for taking the time to explain these things. I am very grateful. I will stick with the trays I have and see how it pans out. Once I see how many trees actually sprout I will order some larger route maker pots. I think I will try planting some from 18s, and winter some in my basement as you suggested.
 
Yes, it never hurts to experiment as long as you are looking it that way. I understand that some guys have had better success than I planting directly from 18s. Maybe they have a different definition of success or maybe they just have different soils and conditions than I do. I have fairly poor soils and trees tend to grow slowly when direct seeded compared to what I can grow in containers. I'm sure the regulated water and fertilizer help along with the energy that would normally being spent on a tap root being redirected to both fibrous root development along with top growth. The bigger and healthier trees are when I plant them, the better results I get.


Thanks,

Jack
 
I've had really good luck using a three to one pete moss/potting soil mix in 18's and just growing them on the kitchen table in front of south facing glass patio door. I've got over a hundred that are from 3"-12" tall now. All of these will be planted in their permanent location in early May.
 
I've had really good luck using a three to one pete moss/potting soil mix in 18's and just growing them on the kitchen table in front of south facing glass patio door. I've got over a hundred that are from 3"-12" tall now. All of these will be planted in their permanent location in early May.

You may want to wait a bit before declaring success. When trees are small much energy comes from the nut and they gradually transition to the root system taking over. When they are small, they are not using as much water and don't have as much variation. You are just entering the stage where the mix plays a more important role. If you are using 18s, I'll warn you that my long-term success planting from them is poor. If you get the watering just right, things may work out at least until you plant them in May. I'm not saying they will die, just that many of mine died and the ones that survived did not flourish. If you have more fertile ground and provide supplemental water when needed they may do better than mine.

One more potential issue you may or may not see is a poor root system. Whitcomb warns against trying to start trees early in Dec or Jan in a greenhouse. The sun intensity is low and it is too low in the sky. The trees look fine above the ground but have very wimpy root systems. Here is a thread that demonstrates that: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.p...lourescent-transferred-from-qdma-forums.5727/. You may have started your trees late enough that you don't have this problem.

I'm just saying that for the many years I've been growing chestnuts and other trees from seeds and nuts, I've had many times when I declared success to early.

Thanks,

Jack
 
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