Wolves showed up on the property.

[Terrific_tom]

This is the same argument as ... If a tree falls in the woods, did it make a sound?

The fact that you have a fallen tree, is no evidence that it made a sound ... the fact that you think you saw a wolf on your camera, now all the deer leave the area?

Where do these deer go? Once the deer go to your neighbors property, what happens when the wolf goes there, and then they go to the next, and next property and so forth.

At some point you learn the predator/prey cycle exists, and everything comes back full circle ... predator enters an area, prey on alert, predator leaves, prey tends to revert back to normal activity.

If your theory were true, than a deer's number one predator man could walk around his land all the time without it causing any disruption in deer activity. In fact I would love to see you go walking all over your property including your sanctuaries day and night for a couple months. After you do this report back on your deer sightings and how the deer reacted to your intrusions. Bottom line if wolves move unto your property it is going to change how deer behave on your property.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

If your theory were true, than a deer's number one predator man could walk around his land all the time without it causing any disruption in deer activity. In fact I would love to see you go walking all over your property including your sanctuaries day and night for a couple months. After you do this report back on your deer sightings and how the deer reacted to your intrusions. Bottom line if wolves move unto your property it is going to change how deer behave on your property.

Interesting discussion. I think there might be more to it though than simple black and white statements.

Seeing how coyotes here in the Northeast can affect deer movements dramatically, I have no doubt about the impact wolves would have on deer. The ones that don't get eaten have to be alert and on the move way more. So, I agree with you about the wolves.

But your thoughts about human intrusion do not match up in any way with my experiences. I am not one of these guys who "barricades" in my property with 6' walls of brush and stays off my land to 330 days of the year to protect the precious deer for all human contact. I am on my land just about every day...we walk, we log, make trails, ride ATV's and snowmobiles, gather sap, etc. We enjoy our land for way more than just an opportunity to kill a deer. In essence, we are ever-present. I have found that the deer simply have habituated to my presence...the does and young bucks. I can pass by them on foot, on ATV, on tractor...they simply let me pass on go on their way with very little alarm. I have ample trail cam evidence of deer (even older bucks) passing through areas that I was logging or walking with dogs with 30 minutes of my leaving. I'm sure this is not universal. I have a very remote property that experiences almost no other human traffic. For me, the idea that one needs to barricade in land and then never set foot on it to see deer is just something I have never understood.

 

[TenPoint]

You don't want wolves. Period. Not going to convince me otherwise. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

If anyone that doesn't have them, wants them, there are a lot of them by me. Come take them all! Here is one from this spring. Just a little guy!

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[Bill Loser]

Like it or not the #1 predator of deer is man. Every year the deer get pounded on opening day of gun season here in Wisconsin yet every second day of the season the deer are still there? Yhey dont disapear or leave yhey just get smarter and harder to kill. Im not going to argue that wolves arent overpopulated cause they most likely are. and i wont argue that wolves shpuldnt be controlled by hunting cause they should be. But i will argue anyone who says they dont belong cause they do. A pack of wolves does not mean you will see no deer. It simply means it will be harder to hunt them. The wolf hysteria is getting out of hand.

 

[TenPoint]

Like it or not the #1 predator of deer is man. Every year the deer get pounded on opening day of gun season here in Wisconsin yet every second day of the season the deer are still there? Yhey dont disapear or leave yhey just get smarter and harder to kill. Im not going to argue that wolves arent overpopulated cause they most likely are. and i wont argue that wolves shpuldnt be controlled by hunting cause they should be. But i will argue anyone who says they dont belong cause they do. A pack of wolves does not mean you will see no deer. It simply means it will be harder to hunt them. The wolf hysteria is getting out of hand.

No offense, but have you ever had to deal w/ wolves?

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Bill, I am not sure where you are in terms of the wolf range, but they have been in my area for a long time, and have grown into large packs. I am not referring to the DNR numbers, I am using actual sightings of wolves. They are very plentiful in my area. Do they chase away or kill all the deer no, but they will put a hurting on them much more then deer hunting season does in my area. I am not talking about a random passing wolf, I am talking about a large pack, or several packs doing deer drives like people do, over and over until it isn't worth their time there anymore then they move a half mile away and repeat.

Wolf lovers like to say they are efficient hunters, and eat everything, and don't waste anything. But my experience says much different. What I have seen the last 20 years is it goes in cycles, the wolves come in, and it takes them a few months in the area, then they move on. It then takes a couple years for the deer herd to recover, and the wolves move a half mile or so away, until the deer herd grows enough for them to move in. It is about a 3-4 year cycle. I will have great deer numbers, then the wolves move in, then the next year very low numbers, and then they improve the next year, and just when you are thinking you have good deer numbers again, the wolves come back in.

They are not scared of humans either. When they move in, they will walk under your stand, walk right in to the yard while you are in it. They don't care.


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[4wanderingeyes]

No offense, but have you ever had to deal w/ wolves?

I am not sure where he is in the wolf range, and how many wolves in his area, but I am guessing he doesn't have very many wolves in his area. A few scouts just passing by, rather then packs of them hunting his land.




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[Powder]

I'm not a fan of wolves but they are a fact of life around here. I doubt anyone on this board has to deal with them as frequently as I do. I've had five in one picture more than once. The deer don't up and move out, they don't have wings. They may not move as much so not to spread around their scent but that's about all. I've had lots of trail cam pictures of deer within hours or even minutes of wolves going through. Would there be more deer without them, sure. But they don't get them all. No matter how much anyone on here complains there is nothing you can do about it. The government is not ever going to let them come close to extinction again. This is why I quit complaining about them long ago. Learn to live with them and you'll be much happier.

 

[Bill Loser]

I dont live in wolf range but i do hunt in areas with them. Im not saying that they domt change thing's , they do. What i mean is kimd of what powder said. They need to be hunted and have #s controlled. What i dont like is all the armegedon talk anytime a wolf is sighted. They are predators just as we are. What ive always struggled with is tjis question, " what makes me think i am entitled to kill any deer i see but the wolf is not?" I realize that makes me sound like an animal rights guy but i assure you i am not! I just beleive that in nature everything has its place. I like to hunt rabbits, on my land where i live the rabbit population is down because the coyotes are up. Doesn't mean i hate the coyotes or think that rabbit's will never come back. It will be a year but they'll be back. Not exactly the same but you get the point.
I do agree though that wolves need to be hunted and controlled. Also agree there are to many right now

 

[Tree Spud]

Like it or not the #1 predator of deer is man. Every year the deer get pounded on opening day of gun season here in Wisconsin yet every second day of the season the deer are still there? Yhey dont disapear or leave yhey just get smarter and harder to kill. Im not going to argue that wolves arent overpopulated cause they most likely are. and i wont argue that wolves shpuldnt be controlled by hunting cause they should be. But i will argue anyone who says they dont belong cause they do. A pack of wolves does not mean you will see no deer. It simply means it will be harder to hunt them. The wolf hysteria is getting out of hand.

I'm not a fan of wolves but they are a fact of life around here. I doubt anyone on this board has to deal with them as frequently as I do. I've had five in one picture more than once. The deer don't up and move out, they don't have wings. They may not move as much so not to spread around their scent but that's about all. I've had lots of trail cam pictures of deer within hours or even minutes of wolves going through. Would there be more deer without them, sure. But they don't get them all. No matter how much anyone on here complains there is nothing you can do about it. The government is not ever going to let them come close to extinction again. This is why I quit complaining about them long ago. Learn to live with them and you'll be much happier.

That is really the point. They are a part of the ecosystem and have a place. If you are really concerned about wolves, and want to reduce their presence or attraction to your property, get rid of all of the habitat & food plot work you are doing to draw, hold, & concentrate deer on your property.

I do agree that the wolf hysteria gets out of hand. For some, just another way of excusing poor hunting skills.

I agree that wolves should be removed from the ESL, which unfortunately they will not be anytime soon. They should be hunted or trapped just like any other game animal as I think the DNR has under reported their #'s. I think the DNR is very pleased with the wolf predation of deer as in some areas of the state, hunters refuse to shoot a doe.

 

[Peplin Creek]

I have actually heard of the DNR release wolves in certain parts of the state for that very reason, to control deer numbers. Not sure if it's true or not. I do think it's not as big of a deal up north where there are thousands of acres of land but this year I think I just read an article that wolf depredation is at an all time high on dogs in the state. I think that's because they keep moving south in search of new home ranges and food. The further south they get, the bigger the problem will get.

One other thing, the clam lake elk had been growing until wolves showed up, then it stopped, now the DNR had to bring more elk on taxpayer money to jumpstart it again. I agree that wolves won't take every single deer down. But between hunting and predation, there seems to be very few left and that causes them to move on. It is what it is at this point.

 

[TenPoint]

300 wolves in northern wi is fine. What we have now isn't.

 

[Tree Spud]

If your theory were true, than a deer's number one predator man could walk around his land all the time without it causing any disruption in deer activity. In fact I would love to see you go walking all over your property including your sanctuaries day and night for a couple months. After you do this report back on your deer sightings and how the deer reacted to your intrusions. Bottom line if wolves move unto your property it is going to change how deer behave on your property.

TT ... there was no theory in my post. I am not clear on what potentially walking through established sanctuaries has to do with wolves?

I challenged the supposition that if a wolf enters a certain confined space, say 80 acres, every deer leaves there and all surrounding properties.

My comment was that predators, prey, & human intrusion is boundary-less ... whether you own 40 or 400 acres is irrelevant to them. Deer move to where there is less pressure whether it be wolves, stupid hunters like myself, or cars driving along a road. Wolves are programmed to stalk & kill prey. Their home territory can be 5000 - 25,000 acres and they will stay where they are welcome, there is food, shelter, & water just deer. They all exist in the same habitat.

I do respect what my sanctuaries are and the discipline required to maintain them, even though wildlife doesn't always agree with me.

Please enlighten me on what your point is ... ?

 

[Terrific_tom]

TT ... there was no theory in my post. I am not clear on what potentially walking through established sanctuaries has to do with wolves?

I challenged the supposition that if a wolf enters a certain confined space, say 80 acres, every deer leaves there and all surrounding properties.

My comment was that predators, prey, & human intrusion is boundary-less ... whether you own 40 or 400 acres is irrelevant to them. Deer move to where there is less pressure whether it be wolves, stupid hunters like myself, or cars driving along a road. Wolves are programmed to stalk & kill prey. Their home territory can be 5000 - 25,000 acres and they will stay where they are welcome, there is food, shelter, & water just deer. They all exist in the same habitat.

I do respect what my sanctuaries are and the discipline required to maintain them, even though wildlife doesn't always agree with me.

Please enlighten me on what your point is ... ?

In your post you said that wolves move onto your property, deer move to neighbors, wolves follow deer to neighbors, deer come back to your land and every thing is back to normal. That is not how it works. 1st off a wolf pack in spring and summer have a much smaller range when they are raising pups. The pups stay in a very small area for about 8 weeks. In that time period the adults do not travel very far to protect the pups. After 8 weeks the pups are able to expand their range a little bit but still only a small area, this is what they call a rondeveau area. Any canines wander into this area and they are likely not going to SURVIVE. Around October the pups start traveling with the pack. So from April or May until October if a pack decided to call your land home, the deer that use your land will be hunted 24/7. When the wolves finally do leave the deer just don't come running back to your land and the ones that do are cautious and spooky as he'll. How do I know this, I had a pack of 5 wolves raise 4 pups on my land.Found 3 buck remains and 2 doe remains and 1 yote remain in my food plots. Oh one more thing the denser the wolf packs get the less they travel. The original poster asked what to expect if wolves moved into his land, some of you made it sound like it was no big thing and nothing would change for his deer hunting. That simply is not true. Do I hate wolves, hell no, do wolves change deer behavior hell yes. Like I said earlier walk all over you property day and night chasing deer for several months and then report back if your deer sightings don't drop to almost nothing.

 

[BuckSutherland]

I was up north last week at my hunting land fertilizing brassicas. I had to run to town cause a bear ripped my cam lock box and camera off the trees and I got 2300 pictures of leaves blowing on the trees. On the way to town I saw two wolves in different places. I went about half way down the ditch with the duramax trying to hit that second scraggly bastard and spilled some of my beer on me. I hate them more than ever now. And I must be a really poor hunter cause I havent shot a deer in 4 years. Always have plenty of beer though.

 

[Eggman]

Wolves are not something I have deal with at all. For those of you that have them how often do you see them while you are hunting?

 

[4wanderingeyes]

While hunting I have only seen a wolf 4 times in the woods. But in my area they really only hang out there about 3 months every 3 years or so. This is the time they put a big hurting on deer, and other wildlife. Other times they pretty much just pass through just getting a picture or 2 on camera about once every few months. When I get the single wolves just passing through, it doesn't really effect the deer at all. But when they decide to make it there home area for several months, wildlife pretty much is non existent. If you have coyotes around, the wolves haven't taken over. When you no longer hear coyotes at night, you know the wolves are in the area.


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[dogghr]

First, wolves like any predator should be hunted and trapped. Otherwise they have no competitor and become the apex predator with no fear. Not a good thing. they are a very efficient predator, even robbing bear dens of their young during hibernation. As for wolves affect on deer, any predator has affect on its prey and as a hunter you must adapt accordingly or will be frustrated. They are here to stay and personally I think in this country are a hidden agenda motive to dispel the thot that hunters are needed to control deer populations. Land management and hunting techniques have to adapt or you will be a failed predator.
Anyways, I have hunted some of the most wolf populated areas in NA. I always still see numerous numbers of the best bucks possible in 150+ class. I see doe and yearlings thruout the days. Shot one of my best bucks at 10 am after passing several shooters that morning. None of the deer were any more nervous than any other hunted whitetail.
I have trapped wolf by leg hold traps and snares.. Best place for leg hold is near their "pissing rock" where they mark their territory. Snares work well in runways. Interestingly, wolves will kill their own if injured, even in a trap or snare. They do not tolerate weakness even in their own pack.

 

[Tree Spud]

In your post you said that wolves move onto your property, deer move to neighbors, wolves follow deer to neighbors, deer come back to your land and every thing is back to normal. That is not how it works. 1st off a wolf pack in spring and summer have a much smaller range when they are raising pups. The pups stay in a very small area for about 8 weeks. In that time period the adults do not travel very far to protect the pups. After 8 weeks the pups are able to expand their range a little bit but still only a small area, this is what they call a rondeveau area. Any canines wander into this area and they are likely not going to SURVIVE. Around October the pups start traveling with the pack. So from April or May until October if a pack decided to call your land home, the deer that use your land will be hunted 24/7. When the wolves finally do leave the deer just don't come running back to your land and the ones that do are cautious and spooky as he'll. How do I know this, I had a pack of 5 wolves raise 4 pups on my land.Found 3 buck remains and 2 doe remains and 1 yote remain in my food plots. Oh one more thing the denser the wolf packs get the less they travel. The original poster asked what to expect if wolves moved into his land, some of you made it sound like it was no big thing and nothing would change for his deer hunting. That simply is not true. Do I hate wolves, hell no, do wolves change deer behavior hell yes. Like I said earlier walk all over you property day and night chasing deer for several months and then report back if your deer sightings don't drop to almost nothing.

Thanks for your observation and experience with wolves. Sounds like you have a frustrating situation.

I think you are adjusting what I said. I asked a question "what happens if ..." , I did not state that is how it works. I agree that any predators on your property can disrupt deer behavior. People come on here and other sites and automatically assume that a wolf siting is the end of your deer hunting. From my experience I disagree with that perspective. There are various level of wolf activity in any given area. In your area it sounds like a pack set-up a den site and family unit. Some areas they may be more transient and are only traveling through.

The other comment I made was that most of the habitat work we do, works to the advantage of the wolves/coyotes. Food plots & water holes concentrate deer, thermal cover enhancement draws more deer & turkeys as bedding/roosting areas, and hinge cutting funnels deer to a kill point.

The OP asked if his best hunting days were over ... maybe, maybe not. Drawing an absolute conclusion probably isn't justified at this point in time.