Wild Turkey population is tanking across most of its range

[omicron1792]

And after further looking I think your use of the word was correct. They are generalists in the scientific term. My bad

 

[omicron1792]

I have a buddy that lives right outside Sacramento California. He called me and said he had 100 turkey in two trees behind his house. They make such a racket that he wants them gone. He is obviously not a hunter. Begged me to come kill them all. Ha

So yeah. It is strange where they explode in numbers sometimes.

 

[BenA]

You have been pushing that you don’t think lack of habitat is why you are not seeing turkey on your farm. Most here have disagreed with you.

I went back and looked and don't see anyone saying the lack of habitat on my farm is the reason I'm not seeing more turkeys? I have tons of brood rearing and nesting habitat immediately adjacent to each other. I have water all throughout. I have open areas. I have roosting trees and fly down areas. I have very few nest predators. My area is not lacking in habitat either. I'm saying that there is a reason for decline in areas that have sufficient habitat and where predation isn't a major factor.

 

[omicron1792]

I went back and looked and don't see anyone saying the lack of habitat on my farm is the reason I'm not seeing more turkeys? I have tons of brood rearing and nesting habitat immediately adjacent to each other. I have water all throughout. I have open areas. I have roosting trees and fly down areas. I have very few nest predators. My area is not lacking in habitat either. I'm saying that there is a reason for decline in areas that have sufficient habitat and where predation isn't a major factor.

Cool bold.

When was your last burn?

Also you don’t have coons and possums on your place?

 

[SwampCat]

What percentage of hens are laying eggs? What percentage of those eggs are viable? And, have those numbers changed at all over time? While predation and habitat is looked at, I think we need to see if there is a problem with that leg of the stool. Turkeys explode in some suburban areas and end up nesting under benches and other terrible nesting sites. Those areas are loaded with feral cats, possums, and coons. Yet, turkeys somehow still become a nuisance animal in some places. I think the disease aspect needs to be looked at more closely, both from how it may kill turkeys, to how it can affect fertility.

In that podcast featuring Harper with the study in TN, he said of the nests that make it the full incubation period, the average was 85% hatch rate, but on that study in TN, they were seeing hatch rates in the low 90% in some years.

I have read a few studies where disease was addressed, but was not considered to be a major concern - in those specific areas - with the exception of the study you mentioned earlier in the NE. In the TN study, they are taking tissue samples in an effort to address toxins. My opinion, I would think diseases would be more difficult to study because they are probably more localized. I would think you could easily be in an area where some type of disease was prevalent and not 100 miles away.

The northern US in general and the urban areas up there in particular always amaze me when I read about turkey populations in those areas. To me, It would seem the south would be a much less hospitable area for turkeys to live - mild winters, long growing seasons, etc. The urbanized turkeys are really amazing to me. My best friend years ago participated in a turkey study - and he said they were extremely concerned about flushing the hens off the nest for fear of nest abandonment. It would seem to me that hens nesting in an urban environment would be flushed off the nest with some regularity, but they must not be as prone to abandonment.

As far as the predators are concerned, this is purely anecdotal, but I have lived in a small rural town, population of 1800, and have lived on my land for the last 14 years, nearest neighbor 1 mile away. I have a peach tree 90 yards from my front door that I pick bushels of peaches off of. I have three producing peach trees and four producing apple trees 400 yards from my door that I have not picked a bushel of fruit from - combined - in ten years - due to a number of coons and possums eating the fruit.

My dog does catch a possum every now and then, trying to eat the cat food on the back deck, and might tree one coon a year in the thirty yard circle that he has to run. When I lived in the small rural town, coons and possums were almost non-existent. I grew strawberries, and we had to protect them from the birds, but never in thirty years did we have a coon or possum get in them.

I realize this is anecdotal evidence, but there is a very stark contrast between the predator population around my house compared to 400 yards away. While I am not sure what it would prove, it would be interesting to me to compare a nesting success study in an urban area with a high turkey population to a nesting study in a rural area where turkeys are struggling to survive.

There are a lot of turkey studies ongoing right now, with several in the northern states, studying everything from disease to early embryonic death. Hopefully, I live long enough to view the results

 

[BenA]

Cool bold.

When was your last burn?

Also you don’t have coons and possums on your place?

Two years ago I had a 15 acre burn. Helped on the neighbors burn a couple years before that. Burns are getting done "my man".

As I've said, I have very few coons or possums. I certainly have fewer than I've had on other places with lots of turkeys.

Habitat and predation aren't the only factors in declining populations. That's all I'm saying.

 

[chucker66]

I am about 2 hours NE of Minneapolis and had a group of 5 Toms come through one of my plots the other day. I seem to be getting more and more Turkeys around my place. When I was a kid we did not have any Turkeys and Canada Geese only flew over. Now we have hunting seasons for both.

 

[SwampCat]

Harper mentioned, I believe on the current five county study in TN, that early successional habitat on their study areas only made up something like 5% of the acreage but accounted for nearly 50% of the poult production. I would not say he is a big proponent of grass. He preferred open areas to have less than a 30% grass component.

I have about 20 acres of what was grazed to the dirt pasture, that I converted to nwsg. I see almost no use of it by any wildlife. I am converting it to largely forb component. I have never seen a turkey spending any amount of time in my open area nwsg. Where my turkeys nest is on the steep hillside dropping down to the bottoms - eroded deep ravines with cedars - interspersed with openings dominated by little bluestem. Openings are ten to twenty yards across. If I was a multi millionaire, I would have most of my wooded acreage mulched to a 50/50 tree/open ground component. But even that would be a nightmare to keep open.

When I bought my land in 2003, there were lots of turkeys - even in the nearby river bottoms. Even though my habitat is much improved over when I bought it, the turkey population totally Vanished about eight years ago. I have heard as many as six different gobblers off my back deck 20 years ago, to hearing, seeing and getting pictures of none eight years ago. I was at a point where I didnt know what else to do with the habitat that was within my means and ability. It was also about that time that our state legalized year round trapping on private ground. I started trapping pretty hard in the spring. Maybe three trapping periods of three or four days in mar, apr, and may. Coincidental or not, I started having a hen or two show up and attempt to nest. They were mostly unsuccessful - but about every other year - one would raise a few poults.

Four years ago, a few gobblers started showing up. I now had five or six hens every spring. All these turkeys would leave late summer and not show back up until Mar. Oddly, neither of my neighboring large landowners were seeing any turkeys - until last year. I have a good friend who deer hunts the adjoining 1200 acre cattle farm. Last fall, he said he got more turkey pictures than he had the previous 8 years combined. I have had turkeys all fall and winter. Two different bunches of hens - one with 11 - and one bunch of seven jakes.

What in the world happened? Absolutely no difference in habitat. What would be considered very poor nesting weather with 20” of rain in Apr, May, Jun followed by an extended late summer drought. Nothing about last years weather would have been considered favorable for turkeys. We did have a huge grasshopper crop.

We have had extremely wet springs the past six or eight years - so that was not unusual. A late summer drought is almost semi normal. I didnt remove any more or less predators than normal. What in the world made the difference. If we could have a similar hatch again this year, we would be right back to where we were twenty years ago when I was hearing multiple turkeys off my back deck.

No burning. No additional habitat work. No increased trapping effort. Extremely wet spring. Hot, dry summer. I could see the abundant grasshoppers responsible for better poult survivability - but I dont think that would have helped nest success.

Whatever it was, I expect it is not repeatable from a human effort - I believe it to be a totally natural occurrence.

 

[omicron1792]

Two years ago I had a 15 acre burn. Helped on the neighbors burn a couple years before that. Burns are getting done "my man".

As I've said, I have very few coons or possums. I certainly have fewer than I've had on other places with lots of turkeys.

Habitat and predation aren't the only factors in declining populations. That's all I'm saying.

Don’t be an ass. Seriously. Just not needed.

 

[omicron1792]

Harper mentioned, I believe on the current five county study in TN, that early successional habitat on their study areas only made up something like 5% of the acreage but accounted for nearly 50% of the poult production. I would not say he is a big proponent of grass. He preferred open areas to have less than a 30% grass component.

I have about 20 acres of what was grazed to the dirt pasture, that I converted to nwsg. I see almost no use of it by any wildlife. I am converting it to largely forb component. I have never seen a turkey spending any amount of time in my open area nwsg. Where my turkeys nest is on the steep hillside dropping down to the bottoms - eroded deep ravines with cedars - interspersed with openings dominated by little bluestem. Openings are ten to twenty yards across. If I was a multi millionaire, I would have most of my wooded acreage mulched to a 50/50 tree/open ground component. But even that would be a nightmare to keep open.

When I bought my land in 2003, there were lots of turkeys - even in the nearby river bottoms. Even though my habitat is much improved over when I bought it, the turkey population totally Vanished about eight years ago. I have heard as many as six different gobblers off my back deck 20 years ago, to hearing, seeing and getting pictures of none eight years ago. I was at a point where I didnt know what else to do with the habitat that was within my means and ability. It was also about that time that our state legalized year round trapping on private ground. I started trapping pretty hard in the spring. Maybe three trapping periods of three or four days in mar, apr, and may. Coincidental or not, I started having a hen or two show up and attempt to nest. They were mostly unsuccessful - but about every other year - one would raise a few poults.

Four years ago, a few gobblers started showing up. I now had five or six hens every spring. All these turkeys would leave late summer and not show back up until Mar. Oddly, neither of my neighboring large landowners were seeing any turkeys - until last year. I have a good friend who deer hunts the adjoining 1200 acre cattle farm. Last fall, he said he got more turkey pictures than he had the previous 8 years combined. I have had turkeys all fall and winter. Two different bunches of hens - one with 11 - and one bunch of seven jakes.

What in the world happened? Absolutely no difference in habitat. What would be considered very poor nesting weather with 20” of rain in Apr, May, Jun followed by an extended late summer drought. Nothing about last years weather would have been considered favorable for turkeys. We did have a huge grasshopper crop.

We have had extremely wet springs the past six or eight years - so that was not unusual. A late summer drought is almost semi normal. I didnt remove any more or less predators than normal. What in the world made the difference. If we could have a similar hatch again this year, we would be right back to where we were twenty years ago when I was hearing multiple turkeys off my back deck.

No burning. No additional habitat work. No increased trapping effort. Extremely wet spring. Hot, dry summer. I could see the abundant grasshoppers responsible for better poult survivability - but I dont think that would have helped nest success.

Whatever it was, I expect it is not repeatable from a human effort - I believe it to be a totally natural occurrence.

Without burning I agree the grass gets way too thick. It probably gets too thick anyways. I’ve been lucky so far but I bet mine continues to get thicker and thicker. Harper talks about discing it to thin, but my place is so hilly it’s scary to run a tractor in some spots.

 

[omicron1792]

Harper mentioned, I believe on the current five county study in TN, that early successional habitat on their study areas only made up something like 5% of the acreage but accounted for nearly 50% of the poult production. I would not say he is a big proponent of grass. He preferred open areas to have less than a 30% grass component.

I have about 20 acres of what was grazed to the dirt pasture, that I converted to nwsg. I see almost no use of it by any wildlife. I am converting it to largely forb component. I have never seen a turkey spending any amount of time in my open area nwsg. Where my turkeys nest is on the steep hillside dropping down to the bottoms - eroded deep ravines with cedars - interspersed with openings dominated by little bluestem. Openings are ten to twenty yards across. If I was a multi millionaire, I would have most of my wooded acreage mulched to a 50/50 tree/open ground component. But even that would be a nightmare to keep open.

When I bought my land in 2003, there were lots of turkeys - even in the nearby river bottoms. Even though my habitat is much improved over when I bought it, the turkey population totally Vanished about eight years ago. I have heard as many as six different gobblers off my back deck 20 years ago, to hearing, seeing and getting pictures of none eight years ago. I was at a point where I didnt know what else to do with the habitat that was within my means and ability. It was also about that time that our state legalized year round trapping on private ground. I started trapping pretty hard in the spring. Maybe three trapping periods of three or four days in mar, apr, and may. Coincidental or not, I started having a hen or two show up and attempt to nest. They were mostly unsuccessful - but about every other year - one would raise a few poults.

Four years ago, a few gobblers started showing up. I now had five or six hens every spring. All these turkeys would leave late summer and not show back up until Mar. Oddly, neither of my neighboring large landowners were seeing any turkeys - until last year. I have a good friend who deer hunts the adjoining 1200 acre cattle farm. Last fall, he said he got more turkey pictures than he had the previous 8 years combined. I have had turkeys all fall and winter. Two different bunches of hens - one with 11 - and one bunch of seven jakes.

What in the world happened? Absolutely no difference in habitat. What would be considered very poor nesting weather with 20” of rain in Apr, May, Jun followed by an extended late summer drought. Nothing about last years weather would have been considered favorable for turkeys. We did have a huge grasshopper crop.

We have had extremely wet springs the past six or eight years - so that was not unusual. A late summer drought is almost semi normal. I didnt remove any more or less predators than normal. What in the world made the difference. If we could have a similar hatch again this year, we would be right back to where we were twenty years ago when I was hearing multiple turkeys off my back deck.

No burning. No additional habitat work. No increased trapping effort. Extremely wet spring. Hot, dry summer. I could see the abundant grasshoppers responsible for better poult survivability - but I dont think that would have helped nest success.

Whatever it was, I expect it is not repeatable from a human effort - I believe it to be a totally natural occurrence.

Could it have been the big cicada event last year? Heard it would be a banner few years after that.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Without burning I agree the grass gets way too thick. It probably gets too thick anyways. I’ve been lucky so far but I bet mine continues to get thicker and thicker. Harper talks about discing it to thin, but my place is so hilly it’s scary to run a tractor in some spots.

I’m confused by the discing strategy. I disced some ground last year. Couple different spots actually. Literally zero difference in the composition by mid summer. All it did was make rutted up rough ground and it was only pass, so what I consider light. I feel like I’m missing something

 

[omicron1792]

I’m confused by the discing strategy. I disced some ground last year. Couple different spots actually. Literally zero difference in the composition by mid summer. All it did was make rutted up rough ground and it was only pass, so what I consider light. I feel like I’m missing something

I agree with you there. Maybe you’ll see the benefits next year. I think thought is forbs go wild after but I bet I would just have some bare dirt spots to wash out too.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I agree with you there. Maybe you’ll see the benefits next year. I think thought is forbs go wild after but I bet I would just have some bare dirt spots to wash out too.

Yeah, I had high hopes. Guys like Harper and the Land & Legacy guys always preach it so I gave it an honest effort. I’d like to reach out to them and see exactly what their strategy is.

 

[BenA]

Don’t be an ass. Seriously. Just not needed.

I think you're taking things too personally. Just trying to explain some things to you. That's all.

 

[omicron1792]

Yeah, I had high hopes. Guys like Harper and the Land & Legacy guys always preach it so I gave it an honest effort. I’d like to reach out to them and see exactly what their strategy is.

If it did nothing but thin that area maybe that’s a benefit? Let me know what you find out.

 

[omicron1792]

I think you're taking things too personally. Just trying to explain some things to you. That's all.

Maybe so. The Bold reply and the “my man” seemed personal. Just discussing land and my experience. That’s all

 

[BenA]

Maybe so. The Bold reply and the “my man” seemed personal. Just discussing land and my experience. That’s all

Not my intention. I didn't think you were getting my point about having optimum habitat sometimes doesn't solve the underlying issues. And the "my man" part was just a light hearted jab, as I see you use that term a good bit. I don't think we have to make this an I'm right, you're wrong type of thing. Even the researchers disagree on the this stuff.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I’m taking 60 acres of row crop out of production after this season. I’m going to convert maybe 10 acres to food plot. The balance will be early succession. I know it’s a bit away but I hope my efforts will be rewarded for turkeys and quail.

And this ground is broken in a couple different fields so not just one big field. I feel like that’s better for wildlife than one field.

 

[omicron1792]

Not my intention. I didn't think you were getting my point about having optimum habitat sometimes doesn't solve the underlying issues. And the "my man" part was just a light hearted jab, as I see you use that term a good bit. I don't think we have to make this an I'm right, you're wrong type of thing. Even the researchers disagree on the this stuff.

I agree. Sorry if I came across that way. No doubt you know your land far better than I do.