Since I started planting RR corn and soybeans on my land as food plots, turkeys have become pests. I have large groups of them in the fall. I have seen two different groups of 4-5 Toms, with each bird over 20+ pounds. I also have a small population of grouse on my land that I do not hunt. I rent out a 12 acre field that my farmer friend has planted in alfalfa. When he does the first cutting, he always goes a little slower and tries to spot any turkey nests in the alfalfa. A lot of the habitat improvement I have done to improve deer hunting seems to dovetail right in for turkeys also.
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Wild Turkey Management
- Thread starter ALwoodsman
- Start date
yoderjac
5 year old buck +
We just keep block of timber in early succession by an initial herbicide application to kill stump suckers followed by periodic controlled burns. This is relatively inexpensive compared to planting and the diversity of early succession is probably more effective than a monoculture of NWSG. Both will work for both turkey nesting and deer bedding. I prefer the early succession approach. Eventually, it will revert but by then, we will have other blocks of timber clear cut and be repeating the process on them. Our goal is to always have something in early succession for bedding and nesting.
Thanks,
Jack
Greta&Gus
5 year old buck +
I agree about how nomadic northern birds are. When I hunted down in the driftless region of WI it seemed like one Tom would claim a ridge top and he would roost in the same location nightly. We hunted one bird 3 years in a row who roosted in the same tree(s) but never killed him. In my area of MN/WI birds are constantly moving throughout the seasons and are much harder to pattern but have less pressure so they are not as call or decoy shy.
For everyone, I agree with Jack. If you have a Tom around and can hunt him, go for it. That means you have a good roosting area and another Tom will move in. To me, it is all about the hens and poult survival. We have about 30 acres of a 10 year old poplar cutting that they seem to really like. I have also read on the internet that nesting hens like hinge cut areas due to the thickness of the down tree tops. I have no experience with this it seems reasonable.
Art, just yesterday my Grandfather made the same comment that the turkeys are hurting the grouse populations. I can't say I agree with that because our grouse numbers are at the highest they have ever been in my lifetime (and so are the turkeys). There are so many factor into that it is just hard for me to say one way or the other on how I feel. I think it is possible that they have some level of competition with the grouse and the deer for food and cover. You have done a ton of habitat work at your places and it is save to say turkeys will like it just like the deer.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I sometimes complain about turkeys just to have something to complain about. However, I do not really like them and favored the days when they were not in this area.
A few years ago, a very experienced and retired state forester told me that a flock of turkeys going through the woods is like a vacuum during low acorn years. There are very few acorns left for squirrels, for deer, and for oak regeneration. His land is the very first place where turkeys were released in our county.
Our deer are so flighty that still do not like turkeys around because of the noise. It is a different thing in other locations.
A few years ago, a very experienced and retired state forester told me that a flock of turkeys going through the woods is like a vacuum during low acorn years. There are very few acorns left for squirrels, for deer, and for oak regeneration. His land is the very first place where turkeys were released in our county.
Our deer are so flighty that still do not like turkeys around because of the noise. It is a different thing in other locations.
Native Hunter
5 year old buck +
AL, I was working with a guy in Tennessee the other day in an area just north of the Alabama line. He is an avid turkey hunter and was talking about how the turkey population had taken a serious decline in that area in recent years. He had read something put out by F&W and said they really didn't have any good answers. He thought it was because of the increase in predator numbers but said the F&W made it a point to say that they didn't think that was it. Of course, with the infiltration of predator loving hippies into these agencies in recent years, that is just exactly what I would expect them to say.
I agree with the others that it isn't going to hurt anything for you to harvest a gobbler. I can't say that I believe turkeys range out as much in the south as they do in the north, but from what you describe, there should be other toms around to do the breeding.
I will also say that in my area, turkeys are very particular about their habitat - much more so than deer. With a little work, you can coax deer to be almost anywhere, but it isn't as easy with turkey, unless you already have some aspects of the habitat that they like. The small 14 acre farm I recently bought is a turkey paradise, but my 100 acre farm only has a few stragglers in the spring. Both farms have a lot of deer for this area. I fully understand why this is just because I know the area very well.
Bottom line - hunt your gobbler and enjoy it.
Tap
5 year old buck +
I'm by no means a turkey expert but I do get to watch them daily for the last 20 years or so since they moved into the area.
Here are some observations I've had...
They seem to have a winter flock (and range) and a rest-of-the-year flock and range. And these areas can overlap. I must live in an overlap area. We have large wintertime flocks that have numbered as high as 103 birds three winters ago. That year, and most years, The wintertime flock is well established. They usually hang together tightly. "X" number of birds yesterday, the same number (and the same individuals) today and the same number tomorrow. This winter was slightly different, though. Instead of 1 large group, they were in smaller flocks of up to 30 each and they would interact with other flocks during the day. But eventually, the flocks would separate and go their own way.
Usually around now each year, the winter flock will break up and somewhat disperse. There will still be plenty of "resident" turkeys that remain but a lot of them seem to go elsewhere. But the ones that remain stay here. They don't range very far like some of the earlier posters have said. They are here and they stay here. They roost in the same trees every night. I watch them fly down to the same places from the same trees, have the same daytime patterns and eventually fly up to the same trees from the same "take-off zone" every evening. They are extremely predictable.
The resident males also hang out in somewhat established groups but they will split up a bit during mating time. A few years ago we had a group of 4 long beards that were inseparable. They were always together. I could identify them fairly well. One of them had a trait that his head was alway blue-ish in color. it didn't change colors when it got excited like "normal" gobblers heads do.
Those 4 gobblers tolerated each other quite well. Very little fighting, ever. But if another group of "strangers" were to show-up, it was like a turf war. It was on!
Jakes also hang out in gangs during the mating period and they will harass smaller groups of adult gobblers. I've watched a dozen or more jakes squabbling and bickering among themselves until a couple long beards show up, then the younger birds turn on the old men.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if gobblers hate each other or love each other. I've watched them rough-house playing a lot.
One of the more humorous things we see sometimes is a group of 3 or 4 gobblers chasing each other around hickory trees in my yard. Round and round they go. Non-stop for minutes at a time. It's hard to tell which one is 1st and which one is last. Then they peel off and run circles around another hickory. I reminds me of The Keystone Cops or 3 Stooges. It's hilarious.
Groups of gobblers are not afraid of foxes. Many times, I've watched a fox appear near a mixed flock and the gobblers would split off and "escort" the fox out of the area.
Mating is brutal. There are times that it looks like the gobbler might kill the poor hen. After he gets off her, she may lay there for a minute and I wonder if she's dead, but she always gets herself together, gets up and walks off.
Masturbation is very common among gobblers of all ages. If you ever watch a gobbler kind-of hunched-up with tail low and wings fluttering a bit, he is in the act of "it".
As far as nesting sites goes, I've seen them nest just about anywhere from more open woods to hayfields to transitional cover.
Hens do not like to expose poults when they are very young. We have tons of turkeys here, but I seldom see the babies until they get a little older.
And the early age that poults can fly well enough to get up into trees is amazing. They are extremely young when they can begin to fly.
Here are some observations I've had...
They seem to have a winter flock (and range) and a rest-of-the-year flock and range. And these areas can overlap. I must live in an overlap area. We have large wintertime flocks that have numbered as high as 103 birds three winters ago. That year, and most years, The wintertime flock is well established. They usually hang together tightly. "X" number of birds yesterday, the same number (and the same individuals) today and the same number tomorrow. This winter was slightly different, though. Instead of 1 large group, they were in smaller flocks of up to 30 each and they would interact with other flocks during the day. But eventually, the flocks would separate and go their own way.
Usually around now each year, the winter flock will break up and somewhat disperse. There will still be plenty of "resident" turkeys that remain but a lot of them seem to go elsewhere. But the ones that remain stay here. They don't range very far like some of the earlier posters have said. They are here and they stay here. They roost in the same trees every night. I watch them fly down to the same places from the same trees, have the same daytime patterns and eventually fly up to the same trees from the same "take-off zone" every evening. They are extremely predictable.
The resident males also hang out in somewhat established groups but they will split up a bit during mating time. A few years ago we had a group of 4 long beards that were inseparable. They were always together. I could identify them fairly well. One of them had a trait that his head was alway blue-ish in color. it didn't change colors when it got excited like "normal" gobblers heads do.
Those 4 gobblers tolerated each other quite well. Very little fighting, ever. But if another group of "strangers" were to show-up, it was like a turf war. It was on!
Jakes also hang out in gangs during the mating period and they will harass smaller groups of adult gobblers. I've watched a dozen or more jakes squabbling and bickering among themselves until a couple long beards show up, then the younger birds turn on the old men.
Sometimes it's hard to tell if gobblers hate each other or love each other. I've watched them rough-house playing a lot.
One of the more humorous things we see sometimes is a group of 3 or 4 gobblers chasing each other around hickory trees in my yard. Round and round they go. Non-stop for minutes at a time. It's hard to tell which one is 1st and which one is last. Then they peel off and run circles around another hickory. I reminds me of The Keystone Cops or 3 Stooges. It's hilarious.
Groups of gobblers are not afraid of foxes. Many times, I've watched a fox appear near a mixed flock and the gobblers would split off and "escort" the fox out of the area.
Mating is brutal. There are times that it looks like the gobbler might kill the poor hen. After he gets off her, she may lay there for a minute and I wonder if she's dead, but she always gets herself together, gets up and walks off.
Masturbation is very common among gobblers of all ages. If you ever watch a gobbler kind-of hunched-up with tail low and wings fluttering a bit, he is in the act of "it".
As far as nesting sites goes, I've seen them nest just about anywhere from more open woods to hayfields to transitional cover.
Hens do not like to expose poults when they are very young. We have tons of turkeys here, but I seldom see the babies until they get a little older.
And the early age that poults can fly well enough to get up into trees is amazing. They are extremely young when they can begin to fly.
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IkemanTx
5 year old buck +
Would you consider doing a thread talking about your strategies for turkeys?
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Corbin.clay
5 year old buck +
I just started considering turkeys in my management plan. I started a thread so feel free to include what you guys do for turkeys as well.
ALwoodsman
A good 3 year old buck
Thanks for the replies. I hope you all are right because I took him out yesterday!
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Someday isle
5 year old buck +
Pulled camera cards today. We never w have our security no turkey on camera in a year. I also saw one turkey track alongside a creek bed. I've never been much of a turkey hunter with only two to my credit - and one of those a friend and I jumped and shot him like a big quail. Missouri has plenty of turkeys so I expect that we'll see my re of them as our Habitat work continues. We are going try our hand a hunting them this spring though.
Boll Weevil
5 year old buck +
Happy to share what I've done.
I started out with a primary goal of creating a "turkey factory" and focused on nesting and brood rearing. If you remember the movie Honey I Shrunk the Kids...this must be what it's like for little turkeys. When they hatch they're only about the size of a golf ball; the hen's watchful eye and camouflage is their only defense. A key objective was to help them get past those first several weeks at "ground level" until they could hop up in little trees/bushes and eventually fly to escape ground predators.
During this time they are absolutely bug eating machines so I wanted to create areas that were easy for the poults to move through, havens for insects, and where the hen had good visibility as the lookout. Here's a few things that I believe have contributed greatly to poult production and survival on my place:
1) Burn hedgerows and fencerows periodically to knock back the woody stuff and encourage native plants and grasses. I also now have quail in these places where they weren't before.
2) Discourage fescue where you can; it's just too thick a "vegetative maze" for little turkeys to navigate easily.
3) Strip disk hard field edges and they'll sprout in forbs and grasses that poults can use, but with cover where they can hide. They'll also use these areas for dusting.
4) Establish clover wherever you can and encourage whatever volunteer clover is already growing. In early summer I've parted clover and it is absolutely slam full of crickets but still easier for little turkeys to navigate.
5) The little guys can't scratch; burn areas in stands of bigger timber get rid of the thick mat of pine needles and leaves. It'll resprout in good stuff and make bugs and seeds more accessible.
I've watched hens and their brood stay in these areas literally ALL DAY. I'll go about my days work and there they are at 815am. I come back to get a bite to eat and they haven't moved 80 yards from where I saw them earlier. Same in the afternoon, and when it gets hot they'll just be loafing in shadier spots. In these type areas the hen is comfortable standing guard, poults can move/feed freely, and escape cover is only a few feet away.
I know we've had good hatches in my area the last couple of years but I just could not believe the droves of little turkeys I saw or got pictures of as the summer went on. Even if a hen only had a chick or 2 make it out of the egg, if she can get them through the next several weeks their chance at surviving skyrockets. By the time fall rolled around in the 3rd year of management, I was seeing multiple flocks of 3 or 4 hens and 20-30 jakes/jennies.
Speaking of my own learning with regard to the slow and incremental rebound, I totally underestimated the importance of just 1 or 2 birds raising a brood to the jake/jenny stage. It took years of work and Ma'Nature cooperating but I now appreciate just how difficult it is to get a clutch or 2 hatched out; it's a really BIG deal. In the past I figured a flock of 6-8 hens could surely produce enough little turkeys to sustain the population but considering predation, nest robbers, poult mortality, hunting, I now know better.
Attachments
Boll Weevil
5 year old buck +
Other specific things done to help:
1) Creating nesting areas by felling cedar trees. Especially along edges where sunlight penetrates, the "skeletons" form a sort of trellis for all manner of vines and grasses to grow up, through, and around.
2) I've lost count how many skunks, armadillos, coons, yotes and possums we've killed. What seemed to yield a little better outcome is focused predator control immediately adjacent your nesting areas. I'm blessed to have a fairly large tract to manage and it would be impossible to rid the property of every nest predator. I can however work to remove egg snatchers from those areas where I know hens are likely to nest.
3) I don't shoot hens...they're at the core of the baby turkey factory. Sure it makes for more competition in the spring but with a large population of hens, there's a far better chance of replacing annual mortality (or even growing your local population).
1) Creating nesting areas by felling cedar trees. Especially along edges where sunlight penetrates, the "skeletons" form a sort of trellis for all manner of vines and grasses to grow up, through, and around.
2) I've lost count how many skunks, armadillos, coons, yotes and possums we've killed. What seemed to yield a little better outcome is focused predator control immediately adjacent your nesting areas. I'm blessed to have a fairly large tract to manage and it would be impossible to rid the property of every nest predator. I can however work to remove egg snatchers from those areas where I know hens are likely to nest.
3) I don't shoot hens...they're at the core of the baby turkey factory. Sure it makes for more competition in the spring but with a large population of hens, there's a far better chance of replacing annual mortality (or even growing your local population).
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yoderjac
5 year old buck +
All spot on techniques for managing for turkey! Poult survival is king when it comes to increasing turkey populations!
Thanks,
Jack
I don't think killing a mature gobbler will hurt your turk pop. But I wish more ppl would consider the health of any game animal(s) first. It's nice to see contributors and not so many consumers!!! But of course, if you're on this website, you're a contributor! Thumbs up!!
ghilliehunter
5 year old buck +
Bill Weevil,
Couldn't agree more on reducing nest raiders.
Couldn't agree more on reducing nest raiders.
IkemanTx
5 year old buck +
My dad had some Rio Grandes get loose on his place at the end of their poult phase three years ago. Storm busted up the coop. The area is in their native range, but they hadn't been in the immediate area for 30-40 years. They got down to 6 or 7 birds that first year, but there's a decent flock of them now. They didn't stay on his place, choosing to roost a couple miles away. The intention was to raise them for meat and look prettier than a domestic, but a surviving population isn't a bad turn of events. I would have never guessed a captive hatched egg would have made it in the wild. That goes to show how resilient they can be.
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