Which apple tree varieties have done well with little spray?

[sandbur]

One series of comments from Nickolai has him thinking he can grow apples/crabs slightly beyond their zone by top working them on to hardy rootstock(native crabs for us?) He wants the main stem to be crab and even about 6-8 inches of each branch. He felt winter can kill more easily where the branches leave the stem.

Also some comments about winter die back of new growth and he felt that leaving a hardy crab branch on the tree can suppress fall growth of the other limbs. Thus more time to harden off and less die back. True or just conjecture?

 

[sandbur]

^^^I doubt any of us here can either confirm or deny whether that's true.

It got me to thinking that I am going to look over my seedlings this fall and mark any with apples less than .75 inch in apple size. They will be top worked.

Some of my clefts from this spring have shown great growth, especially those on the swamp crab and wild seedlings.

A few have either herbicide burn or environmental stress. I suspect drift from when the corn field was sprayed on my rental acres.

 

[Rally1148]

I have been doing some reading on the Canadian prairie apples and those that are used in Alaska. It sounds like most of those have crab blood in them.
Bernie Nickolai has some comments on growing about 200-300 apples near Edmonton. He feels that the winter sun damages the trees and sets them up for other disease and a shorter lfie span. There seems to be quite a bit of information on fireblight resistance, but not so much on CAR for these trees. Bernie has comments on rootstock. He also likes the idea of painting the trunks white.

Somewhere there was a comment about removing limbs to a 2 foot height from the ground. The new crab apple grafts that I ahve inthe ground are soing to have less removal of lower limbs, especially on the south and southwest sides.

In Michigan, I'm not too worried about cold hardiness. I'm less than 150 miles from Lake Michigan, so we get a BIT of a warming effect. Granted, I'm not going to grow apples that are only rated for zone 6, but I'm usually ok for plants that are zone 5. I'm mainly worried about diseases, which I now am looking at as related to the cold hardiness (i.e. if they are less stressed in the winter, they will be healthier in the spring).
Do you have a link to that stuff?


Thanks for the info, guys!

 

[sandbur]

Do a search for Bernie Nickolai. I might be able to pull up the links a bit later. There was also some good information on the NAFEX forum where someone had talked to Bernie.

 

[sandbur]

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/nafex/2010-July/041032.html

http://www.appleman.ca/korchard/clair.htm

http://members.shaw.ca/BNikolai/apple_notes.html

http://icangarden.com/document.cfm?task=viewdetail&itemid=1283

 

[sandbur]

Buried in this newsletter are comments about topworking onto the frame of a native or hardy crab. http://icangarden.com/document.cfm?task=viewdetail&itemid=1283

 

[sandbur]

Discussion involving Walden Hieghts nursery, hardiness contributing to disease, and rootstock for zone 3.

http://groworganicapples.com/phorum/read.php?12,360,360

 

[Rally1148]

Discussion involving Walden Hieghts nursery, hardiness contributing to disease, and rootstock for zone 3.

http://groworganicapples.com/phorum/read.php?12,360,360

That saved me about 5 days worth of digging! Thanks!

 

[sandbur]

That saved me about 5 days worth of digging! Thanks!

What were you going to dig?

 

[Rally1148]

What were you going to dig?

The google machine!

I just meant that it would have taken me a while trying to find all that stuff.

 

[sandbur]

The google machine!

I just meant that it would have taken me a while trying to find all that stuff.

I thought you were getting ready to transplant some apple trees!

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Stay away from gold rush. Checked my apple trees today and the Gold rush is chewed up with CAR! Liberty, enterprise an Arkansas black are going strong with no signs of disease

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Our Goldrush looks fine, but we don't have any cedars or junipers anywhere near our camp. CAR needs either of those as the alternate host for the disease to complete it's stages. I also read that Goldrush can get some CAR and not have it ruin the tree. I guess areas with lots of red cedar would have greater CAR problems.

 

[Rally1148]

Our Goldrush looks fine, but we don't have any cedars or junipers anywhere near our camp. CAR needs either of those as the alternate host for the disease to complete it's stages. I also read that Goldrush can get some CAR and not have it ruin the tree. I guess areas with lots of red cedar would have greater CAR problems.

That's what I had assumed. The funny thing is, I found the first (and only) 2 cedars on my property a few days ago. I was going to keep them just for the sake of diversity, but now I'm pondering whether or not to cut them down or relocate them. I've got plenty of spruce seedlings to use as screening, so they are expendable.

Stay away from gold rush. Checked my apple trees today and the Gold rush is chewed up with CAR! Liberty, enterprise an Arkansas black are going strong with no signs of disease

I've got 2 goldrush grafted (this year) on the property, where I found those 2 cedars. They're a few hundred feet away.
Now in our "orchard" we've got white cedar within a hundred feet of some trees, but they don't seem to be effected too heavily.

What is your surrounding habitat like with regards to cedars? Lots? Little?

 

[sandbur]

White cedar does not carry CAR.

 

[Rally1148]

White cedar does not carry CAR.

That would explain the relative lack of it on my trees.

 

[wiscwhip]

That would explain the relative lack of it on my trees.

Eastern Red cedar is actually a junpier. Western red cedar and White cedar(what we call Arborvitae) are members of the thuja family. Still not sure why it is called "cedar apple rust" because "juniper apple rust" doesn't sound as good?:confused:

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Bur and Whip are exactly correct. ^^^^^^ White cedar isn't a true cedar, but a member of the Thuja family like they said. Members of the juniper family are what you need to be on the lookout for.

If I were planting apple trees and had 2 or 3 red cedars on the property, I'd cut 'em down - especially if you have the spruce growing as you said. Not easy to do if you're surrounded by red cedar.

 

[wiscwhip]

Not easy to do if you're surrounded by red cedar.

Or if they are some of the only conifers that you have on your property. Many guys lack conifers and anything is welcome in situations like that.

 

[Rally1148]

Or if they are some of the only conifers that you have on your property. Many guys lack conifers and anything is welcome in situations like that.

Which to me is kind of mind boggling. I'd say that a solid 50% of my property, the part that isn't swamp, is spruce or pine. They're super easy to transplant, and grow relatively quickly. If there any real reason that people cedars over spruce?