What to plant after brassicas

[Bill]

I plant red clover at about 2-3 lbs per acre with my turnips. Doesn’t usually do much until spring but when it works my old brassicas turn into a clover plot.

 

[SD51555]

This fall I did a plot a little over half an acre of rape, turnips, and sugar beets (half throw n mow and it turned out awesome). I would like to plant, preferably throw n mow, something in the spring so that it does t go to weeds and plan to plant brassicas again in the late summer. Any suggestions out there? I’m in northern Indiana zone 5b

Those brassicas you grew are a low carbon nitrogen capsule. What is left is gonna let that nitrogen go in the spring and feed it to something. I'd be getting a clean seed oat out there early in spring to gobble up that nitrogen, before weeds do, and put some carbon back into your soil. Pick up with @4wanderingeyes plan to throw and mow (or drag) into it when you're ready to plant again in late summer.

 

[Rit]

Those brassicas you grew are a low carbon nitrogen capsule. What is left is gonna let that nitrogen go in the spring and feed it to something. I'd be getting a clean seed oat out there early in spring to gobble up that nitrogen, before weeds do, and put some carbon back into your soil. Pick up with @4wanderingeyes plan to throw and mow (or drag) into it when you're ready to plant again in late summer.

If you plant straight oats won’t you have an N deficiency for the brassicas come fall using TNM? Depending on the stage of termination Oats can have a C:N ratio of 70:1. That is going to tie up a lot of N that those brassicas will be looking for. I think you will want some legumes to bank N for those brassicas.

 

[Peplin Creek]

I think I am on year 5 or 6 of brassica's in the same plot. I do usually plant something different in the sprint though. clover or buckwheat, So far I haven't seen any major issues with it honestly. This year was maybe my worst year for bulbs.... Baseball size and not softball or bigger. they could have been planted too close together as well.

 

[SD51555]

If you plant straight oats won’t you have an N deficiency for the brassicas come fall using TNM? Depending on the stage of termination Oats can have a C:N ratio of 70:1. That is going to tie up a lot of N that those brassicas will be looking for. I think you will want some legumes to bank N for those brassicas.

Yep.

 

[Rit]

Yep.

That’s what I think I ran into letting my WR get to 5’ the past two years. It affected my radishes. Mature WR is somewhere around 80:1 C:N ratio. I will be experimenting this year with some cover crops to see if I can find the right balance that will allow my brassicas to thrive without adding N. I’ll also see what I can find that will terminate well just from mowing.

Things like buckwheat grow well and terminate easy but they don’t leave the residue needed for TNM. They don’t provide N but lower C:N ratios. Sun Hemp seems like a great cover crop that will help with N,P,K, and provide biomass. I believe I read that at 6’ tall sun hemp has the perfect C:N ratio. I know Pearl Millet will terminate when mowed low so that will provide biomass also but at a higher C:N cost. Once I figure out my mixes I’ll post them here or add them to my land tour thread for tracking purposes.

I have 3 plots that I’d like to have brassicas in this year followed with WR broadcast after the brassicas establish.

I also think that terminating last years WR earlier will help with the fall N requirements.

 

[SD51555]

That’s what I think I ran into letting my WR get to 5’ the past two years. It affected my radishes. Mature WR is somewhere around 80:1 C:N ratio. I will be experimenting this year with some cover crops to see if I can find the right balance that will allow my brassicas to thrive without adding N. I’ll also see what I can find that will terminate well just from mowing.

Things like buckwheat grow well and terminate easy but they don’t leave the residue needed for TNM. They don’t provide N but lower C:N ratios. Sun Hemp seems like a great cover crop that will help with N,P,K, and provide biomass. I believe I read that at 6’ tall sun hemp has the perfect C:N ratio. I know Pearl Millet will terminate when mowed low so that will provide biomass also but at a higher C:N cost. Once I figure out my mixes I’ll post them here or add them to my land tour thread for tracking purposes.

I have 3 plots that I’d like to have brassicas in this year followed with WR broadcast after the brassicas establish.

I also think that terminating last years WR earlier will help with the fall N requirements.

I haven't read the full lickcreek method so I can't say exactly what that was, but I think he was close if not spot on to something like this.

Perennial clover has become a cornerstone of my plots. I've been trying all kinds of stuff with it for many years. I'm very close to proving this out, and there are probably many that already have. If you plant a plot to white clover and rye in the fall, it should come up full blown clover with full blown rye in it come spring. In the north, rye is usually far enough along by June 1st that you can mow-kill it. It'll already be a pretty high carbon content by then, but not quite what dry mature straw may be. That surge in growth in spring will consume all the surplus N thrown off by the clover and along with allelopathy, stave off most later weeds.

By mow-killing it around June 1st, you can have the clover system work on breaking down that straw for the next 6-8 weeks, continuing the use of any surplus nitrogen to further prevent nitrogen using weeds from coming, at least not strong. Depending on location, sometime around mid-July to August 1st I'd broadcast brassicas right into the clover and mow a second time.

Whenever your brassica planting time, come back 3 weeks later and broadcast a partial to full rate of rye into your clover and brassicas. From there, you should be able to keep that cycle going in perpetuity. No nitrogen needed. Get your plot soil built up by the time you plant the clover, and just add some gypsum each year to feed your plot plant-ready sulfate. The diversity and balanced C:N blend of rye and clover will work great, and should prevent soil deficiencies that encourage pioneering weeds to take over.

Once you get this under control, you can start playing around with other forms of the high carbon spectrum to push tonnage, timing, and order of consumption.

 

[Northwoods Whitetails]

How are you planting this? Thanks

We will drill it in. Or one light tiller pass to stir the top layer up and seed then cover the big seeds with a small drag or disc. Pack the plot and spread the small seeds and repack

 

[White Birch Farm]

Frosty Berseem or Fixation Balsana would be two of the best options available in the clover world if you plan to terminate them mid-summer. The reason being, both can be frost seeded, germinate and put out forage faster than most other clovers, and can tollerate a very wide range of soil conditions. Not to mention, both are extremely desirable to deer.

Below is frosty with rye and radish just a few weeks after a fall planting. It withstood extremely heavy pressure for months with no problems.

 

[eclipseman]

I haven't read the full lickcreek method so I can't say exactly what that was, but I think he was close if not spot on to something like this.

Perennial clover has become a cornerstone of my plots. I've been trying all kinds of stuff with it for many years. I'm very close to proving this out, and there are probably many that already have. If you plant a plot to white clover and rye in the fall, it should come up full blown clover with full blown rye in it come spring. In the north, rye is usually far enough along by June 1st that you can mow-kill it. It'll already be a pretty high carbon content by then, but not quite what dry mature straw may be. That surge in growth in spring will consume all the surplus N thrown off by the clover and along with allelopathy, stave off most later weeds.

By mow-killing it around June 1st, you can have the clover system work on breaking down that straw for the next 6-8 weeks, continuing the use of any surplus nitrogen to further prevent nitrogen using weeds from coming, at least not strong. Depending on location, sometime around mid-July to August 1st I'd broadcast brassicas right into the clover and mow a second time.

Whenever your brassica planting time, come back 3 weeks later and broadcast a partial to full rate of rye into your clover and brassicas. From there, you should be able to keep that cycle going in perpetuity. No nitrogen needed. Get your plot soil built up by the time you plant the clover, and just add some gypsum each year to feed your plot plant-ready sulfate. The diversity and balanced C:N blend of rye and clover will work great, and should prevent soil deficiencies that encourage pioneering weeds to take over.

Once you get this under control, you can start playing around with other forms of the high carbon spectrum to push tonnage, timing, and order of consumption.

This is interesting. Do you think this would work in NY? Also, if you broadcast your brassica into a standing clover field and then mow, would the clover just bounce right back and shade out the small germinating brassicas?

 

[eclipseman]

Frosty Berseem or Fixation Balsana would be two of the best options available in the clover world if you plan to terminate them mid-summer. The reason being, both can be frost seeded, germinate and put out forage faster than most other clovers, and can tollerate a very wide range of soil conditions. Not to mention, both are extremely desirable to deer.

Below is frosty with rye and radish just a few weeks after a fall planting. It withstood extremely heavy pressure for months with no problems.View attachment 23005

where are you purchasing these seeds and at what seeding rates are you using?

 

[SD51555]

This is interesting. Do you think this would work in NY? Also, if you broadcast your brassica into a standing clover field and then mow, would the clover just bounce right back and shade out the small germinating brassicas?

I'm not sure. I've switched my plots to medium white to provide a little less competition vs a ladino. Hot summer sun may slow down that clover, depending on what it is. Brassica seed is cheap enough, I'd say it's worth trying this year, or at least a test strip. I won't even mow mine. It's getting thrown right into a giant hodge podge of stuff that will either be browsed away, or finished growing by the time those brassicas need sunlight.

Mixed plantings can be tricky, but we'll never learn if we don't try. I've seen cover crop videos where farmers have grown oats and DER in standing corn for 60 days before harvest, and it stayed alive and did well after the crop was off.

 

[eclipseman]

I'd do a crimson clover and oats mix.

I am in the same boat as the OP and had a question for you. Typically in the north country if you plan on planting clover in the spring you frost seed it but I'm guessing this wouldn't work with the oats so would you frost seed the clover and then a little further into spring when it is no longer freezing and such that is when you throw the oats and maybe cultipack them in which should hurt the small growing clover? OR do you just wait and plant them both at the same time later in the spring before other weeds and such start growing?

 

[scott44]

I am in the same boat as the OP and had a question for you. Typically in the north country if you plan on planting clover in the spring you frost seed it but I'm guessing this wouldn't work with the oats so would you frost seed the clover and then a little further into spring when it is no longer freezing and such that is when you throw the oats and maybe cultipack them in which should hurt the small growing clover? OR do you just wait and plant them both at the same time later in the spring before other weeds and such start growing?

I guess it depends on how the plot looks come spring time, I've had plots look really bare and all I did spray, broadcast the seed and cultipack it. If thare's a lot of weeds/ grasses coming up I'd spray it and lightly disc it braodcast the oats cultipack then braodcast the clover and cultipack again. I usually am terminating this come late Aug. first of Sept to plant cereal grains. I've never had real good luck frost seeding crimson clover but I've had good luck with med red.

A couple pics of a brassica plot the next spring where it was eaten to the ground and I just broadcast the oats/clover and cultipacked it no tillage.

 

[eclipseman]

I guess it depends on how the plot looks come spring time, I've had plots look really bare and all I did spray, broadcast the seed and cultipack it. If thare's a lot of weeds/ grasses coming up I'd spray it and lightly disc it braodcast the oats cultipack then braodcast the clover and cultipack again. I usually am terminating this come late Aug. first of Sept to plant cereal grains. I've never had real good luck frost seeding crimson clover but I've had good luck with med red.

A couple pics of a brassica plot the next spring where it was eaten to the ground and I just broadcast the oats/clover and cultipacked it no tillage.

I am in NY and before it snowed again last week I was able to see the ground. it is 99% a dirt patch with remnants of brassica stalks. So just as long as I get the seed going before the weeds come back, I should be ok I think.

 

[White Birch Farm]

where are you purchasing these seeds and at what seeding rates are you using?

Welters Seed. Rates depend on whether you are mixing them or not. Reccomended monoculture rates are on Welters site and the seed bag tags.