What to buy....tractor, utv, other....?

[Natty Bumppo]

Crimpers are on the expensive side for me, but they can be an effective way to terminate WR if used properly.

Thanks,

Jack

Boy, you said it. I am doing a lot of winer rye as I try to build OM in food plots that were formerly forest. They are not easy to find here in the Northeast, and new ones are just insane...almost $4K just to roll over and kill some rye once or twice a year. Been thinking of a way to fabricate something myself. Maybe a small lawn roller with some angle iron welded on every 10" or so?

 

[yoderjac]

Boy, you said it. I am doing a lot of winer rye as I try to build OM in food plots that were formerly forest. They are not easy to find here in the Northeast, and new ones are just insane...almost $4K just to roll over and kill some rye once or twice a year. Been thinking of a way to fabricate something myself. Maybe a small lawn roller with some angle iron welded on every 10" or so?

They make sense for commercial farmers. A crimper is pretty much a fixed cost. When you amortize it over the many acres they farm for many years, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of gly and other costs. With some cover crops, you need to spray as well. The drill wants to see the rye on the ground. I've seen setups where the sprayer and crimper are connected in tandem so they can do both in one pass.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[JFK52]

Thanks for the response. I have RR ag soy beans no till planted when my farmer is all done with his fields. Usually mid May in Central Wisconsin. This year I am going to have him no till plant my RR Eagle northern managers mix forage soy beans at the same time. They go in smaller plots and help keep the browse pressure off my ag beans. The ag beans have more pod production as an over winter food source eventually. I will plan the termination of the winter rye to work into this planting schedule as they will get the Eagle beans this season.

 

[yoderjac]

Thanks for the response. I have RR ag soy beans no till planted when my farmer is all done with his fields. Usually mid May in Central Wisconsin. This year I am going to have him no till plant my RR Eagle northern managers mix forage soy beans at the same time. They go in smaller plots and help keep the browse pressure off my ag beans. The ag beans have more pod production as an over winter food source eventually. I will plan the termination of the winter rye to work into this planting schedule as they will get the Eagle beans this season.

If you are having a farmer do it, he may have the crimping equipment he can use. I would not really worry about it. A farmer is good at what he does. If he had no-till equipment, I'm sure he has a method that work well with his equipment.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Natty Bumppo]

They make sense for commercial farmers. A crimper is pretty much a fixed cost. When you amortize it over the many acres they farm for many years, it is a drop in the bucket compared to the cost of gly and other costs. With some cover crops, you need to spray as well. The drill wants to see the rye on the ground. I've seen setups where the sprayer and crimper are connected in tandem so they can do both in one pass.

Thanks,

Jack

Yeah, that makes perfect sense for the big time guys Jack. A $4K 5' crimper for a hobbyist foodplotter on a few acres makes less financial sense. I've actually had decent success just driving over the rye with my ATV or John Deere 990. But it would be nice to be able to do it right.

 

[Bill]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense for the big time guys Jack. A $4K 5' crimper for a hobbyist foodplotter on a few acres makes less financial sense. I've actually had decent success just driving over the rye with my ATV or John Deere 990. But it would be nice to be able to do it right.

Once the rye is mature or at least close a lawn roller should break the hollow stem with no angle iron. I used to use my cultipacker until I realized I was doing twice the work. Now I just let the front end loader ride about an inch off the ground as I'm drilling. Sure it bottoms out now and again but it makes quick work of the rye.

 

[kl9]

Yeah, that makes perfect sense for the big time guys Jack. A $4K 5' crimper for a hobbyist foodplotter on a few acres makes less financial sense. I've actually had decent success just driving over the rye with my ATV or John Deere 990. But it would be nice to be able to do it right.

Once the rye is mature or at least close a lawn roller should break the hollow stem with no angle iron. I used to use my cultipacker until I realized I was doing twice the work. Now I just let the front end loader ride about an inch off the ground as I'm drilling. Sure it bottoms out now and again but it makes quick work of the rye.

What model tractor do you have?


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[Bill]

What model tractor do you have?


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New holland TT75
75 hp 4x4. I actually negotiated it into the deal when I bought the farm. It was in the barn and I wanted it to stay.

 

[Bucktown]

Back to the equipment purchase question here....if you go the tractor route (which is the camp I fall into) I would go with 4wd and invest in fluid for the tires. Gives you much more working capacity and is much safer if you are negotiating hills and accounts for counter weight most guys wish they had when you add a loader. Keeps your center of gravity much lower and the tractor much more stable when working. My .$02.

 

[yoderjac]

Back to the equipment purchase question here....if you go the tractor route (which is the camp I fall into) I would go with 4wd and invest in fluid for the tires. Gives you much more working capacity and is much safer if you are negotiating hills and accounts for counter weight most guys wish they had when you add a loader. Keeps your center of gravity much lower and the tractor much more stable when working. My .$02.

If one gets a 4x4 tractor, a FEL is on order. I can't count how many tasks I've used the FEL for that I never planned when I purchased the tractor. When you get a tractor with a FEL, around here, they always load the rear tires.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

I never owned a utv or a quad but I have owned several tractors and there's no way that I could accomplish with a utv what I accomplish with a tractor.
I guess there are things each do better than the other but there are things a tractor can do that a utv will never do.
Easy choice...tractor. No brainer.

 

[yoderjac]

I never owned a utv or a quad but I have owned several tractors and there's no way that I could accomplish with a utv what I accomplish with a tractor.
I guess there are things each do better than the other but there are things a tractor can do that a utv will never do.
Easy choice...tractor. No brainer.

Tap,

I think you are right. There are clearly things a tractor can do that an ATV/UTV will never be able to do. They simply were not made for it. The real question is this. If one is working on a small scale, say just a couple 1/4 acre plots and knows they will never expand, say because they only have a small tract of land, given the throw and mow planting techniques lend themselves to most of what we plant to attract deer, is the cost of a tractor worth it?

ATVs and UTVs can also do things a tractor cannot. Things they were designed to do. So for folks working on the multi-acre per year scale, I think you are right, it is a no-brainer. And, if they don't have a fixed amount of land for plotting, most of us wish we had purchased a larger tractor than the one we got. However, for folks working on a small scale, it is not that clear that a tractor is necessary. If budget is not an option, the best answer is both!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

Tap,

I think you are right. There are clearly things a tractor can do that an ATV/UTV will never be able to do. They simply were not made for it. The real question is this. If one is working on a small scale, say just a couple 1/4 acre plots and knows they will never expand, say because they only have a small tract of land, given the throw and mow planting techniques lend themselves to most of what we plant to attract deer, is the cost of a tractor worth it?

ATVs and UTVs can also do things a tractor cannot. Things they were designed to do. So for folks working on the multi-acre per year scale, I think you are right, it is a no-brainer. And, if they don't have a fixed amount of land for plotting, most of us wish we had purchased a larger tractor than the one we got. However, for folks working on a small scale, it is not that clear that a tractor is necessary. If budget is not an option, the best answer is both!

Thanks,

Jack

I can compare this to a decision on chainsaws. I can do things with a larger saw that I can't do with a small saw, but not visa versa.

Things a UTV can do that a tractor can't...
Go somewhere faster and ride passengers. That's about it. They may be able to get into tighter areas, but if you compare a tractor of similar HP then there isn't much difference.

Things a tractor can do that a UTV can't...
Attachments. Front loader, forks, 3 point attachments by the dozens, belly mower, larger capacity sprayers, dump trailers, and I'm sure there's a lot more that can be added to this list.

I'm by no means a large scale, or even medium scale plotter. I own 31 acres and plot about 4 or 5 acres, but there's so much more to being a land owner/habitat manager than just plotting. My last 2 tractors have (had) front loaders (the previous tractors didn't) and I don't know how I lived without one.
Moving logs, making firewood, snow plowing, brush hogging/mowing, hauling rocks and gravel, grading, carrying tools and other gear, scooping and lifting...some of these things a UTV can do but not as well as a tractor.
Yeah, if I had the money and the barn space for both, I might consider having a UTV, but I don't have barn space or unlimited cash. But if it's an "either-or" decision, a UTV has to be the 2nd choice.

 

[yoderjac]

I can compare this to a decision on chainsaws. I can do things with a larger saw that I can't do with a small saw, but not visa versa.

Things a UTV can do that a tractor can't...
Go somewhere faster and ride passengers. That's about it. They may be able to get into tighter areas, but if you compare a tractor of similar HP then there isn't much difference.

Things a tractor can do that a UTV can't...
Attachments. Front loader, forks, 3 point attachments by the dozens, belly mower, larger capacity sprayers, dump trailers, and I'm sure there's a lot more that can be added to this list.

I'm by no means a large scale, or even medium scale plotter. I own 31 acres and plot about 4 or 5 acres, but there's so much more to being a land owner/habitat manager than just plotting. My last 2 tractors have (had) front loaders (the previous tractors didn't) and I don't know how I lived without one.
Moving logs, making firewood, snow plowing, brush hogging/mowing, hauling rocks and gravel, grading, carrying tools and other gear, scooping and lifting...some of these things a UTV can do but not as well as a tractor.
Yeah, if I had the money and the barn space for both, I might consider having a UTV, but I don't have barn space or unlimited cash. But if it's an "either-or" decision, a UTV has to be the 2nd choice.

Yep, if you are plotting multiple acres, it is a slam dunk decision, but if one is only dealing with a couple 1/4 acre food plots a year, and their primary use includes things like taking the kids to the pond to fish or out to stands to hunt or driving a quarter mile to the mail box each day or weaving between trees to retrieve a deer and making it easier to do a couple small food plots that would otherwise be done by hand, a tractor may not be the best choice.

Most of us, including me, look back at what we've done personally and thought, I wish I had bought this tool instead of that. Each situation is different. For example, I'm on poor soil and I pretty much wasted money on a 2-bottom plow that now sits because I know how much damage it can do to soil health. However, someone on rich bottom land soil that can recover quickly from abuse and is in RR farm country where gly-resistant weeds abound, may be better off with a 2-bottom plow rather than a sprayer with gly. While minimizing tillage is a good fit for my situation, I realize it may not be a good fit for others.

I'm just saying that what is a clear slam-dunk decision for you and I, my not be for all.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tap]

I can compare this to a decision on chainsaws. I can do things with a larger saw that I can't do with a small saw, but not visa versa.

Things a UTV can do that a tractor can't...
Go somewhere faster and ride passengers. That's about it. They may be able to get into tighter areas, but if you compare a tractor of similar HP then there isn't much difference.

Things a tractor can do that a UTV can't...
Attachments. Front loader, forks, 3 point attachments by the dozens, belly mower, larger capacity sprayers, dump trailers, and I'm sure there's a lot more that can be added to this list.

I'm by no means a large scale, or even medium scale plotter. I own 31 acres and plot about 4 or 5 acres, but there's so much more to being a land owner/habitat manager than just plotting. My last 2 tractors have (had) front loaders (the previous tractors didn't) and I don't know how I lived without one.
Moving logs, making firewood, snow plowing, brush hogging/mowing, hauling rocks and gravel, grading, carrying tools and other gear, scooping and lifting...some of these things a UTV can do but not as well as a tractor.
Yeah, if I had the money and the barn space for both, I might consider having a UTV, but I don't have barn space or unlimited cash. But if it's an "either-or" decision, a UTV has to be the 2nd choice.

Yep, if you are plotting multiple acres, it is a slam dunk decision, but if one is only dealing with a couple 1/4 acre food plots a year, and their primary use includes things like taking the kids to the pond to fish or out to stands to hunt or driving a quarter mile to the mail box each day or weaving between trees to retrieve a deer and making it easier to do a couple small food plots that would otherwise be done by hand, a tractor may not be the best choice.

Most of us, including me, look back at what we've done personally and thought, I wish I had bought this tool instead of that. Each situation is different. For example, I'm on poor soil and I pretty much wasted money on a 2-bottom plow that now sits because I know how much damage it can do to soil health. However, someone on rich bottom land soil that can recover quickly from abuse and is in RR farm country where gly-resistant weeds abound, may be better off with a 2-bottom plow rather than a sprayer with gly. While minimizing tillage is a good fit for my situation, I realize it may not be a good fit for others.

I'm just saying that what is a clear slam-dunk decision for you and I, my not be for all.

Thanks,

Jack

Th OP specifically talked about TSI and getting logs out of the woods. Definitely a better job for a tractor. I can haul 1,000 pounds of 8 foot logs on my forks. Ain't doin that with a UTV.

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[yoderjac]

Th OP specifically talked about TSI and getting logs out of the woods. Definitely a better job for a tractor. I can haul 1,000 pounds of 8 foot logs on my forks. Ain't doin that with a UTV.

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Yep, but there are many more folks reading and by page 3 of a thread, lurkers often have lost the details of the original post. I'm not suggesting your response was wrong in any way. I was just trying to broaden the context a bit... But I'd still like to own both!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Tree Spud]

Back to the equipment purchase question here....if you go the tractor route (which is the camp I fall into) I would go with 4wd and invest in fluid for the tires. Gives you much more working capacity and is much safer if you are negotiating hills and accounts for counter weight most guys wish they had when you add a loader. Keeps your center of gravity much lower and the tractor much more stable when working. My .$02.

On my kubota, they filled the rear tires with beet juice for ~$500 when I bought the tractor. Added about 600 lbs per tire and sure helps when carrying heavy loads in my FEL.

Th OP specifically talked about TSI and getting logs out of the woods. Definitely a better job for a tractor. I can haul 1,000 pounds of 8 foot logs on my forks. Ain't doin that with a UTV.

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The OP stated TSI, ground prep, hauling heavy loads, mowing, etc. With a UTV, mowing means another gas driven engine. Turning ground over can be a real challenge with a UTV depending on your soil type and condition. About the widest disc you could use is 50". These small discs are light and may require multiple passes. Adding weight to these can be a real problem as they bounce a lot and your weights come loose.

Add some chain hooks to your from FEL bucket and you'd be amazed at the stuff you can move. A tractors ground clearance is far better also and from a snow removal perspective, you are only going to move so large of a pile of snow with a UTV before you can't push/pile anymore.

 

[Tap]

Th OP specifically talked about TSI and getting logs out of the woods. Definitely a better job for a tractor. I can haul 1,000 pounds of 8 foot logs on my forks. Ain't doin that with a UTV.

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Yep, but there are many more folks reading and by page 3 of a thread, lurkers often have lost the details of the original post. I'm not suggesting your response was wrong in any way. I was just trying to broaden the context a bit... But I'd still like to own both!

Thanks,

Jack

No problem Jack.
I've been known to morph a thread occasionally. But in this case I was sticking to the original topic. It was an "either-or" choice by the OP. I think we'd all like to be fully equipped with machines, implements, and tools. I wish I had a bunch of stuff that I can't afford. But, like most guys on here, I'm not rich. So UTV or tractor? I think most of us will get more bang for our buck with a utility tractor.

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[cavey]

I love having my 4 wheeler to zip around on but I have beaten it to death "trying" to do stuff with it... Most of us have tried the atv approach - I have a tiny offset disk for it that I paid more for than I could have bought a used 10 foot one on transports. My vote would be for a tractor, right tool for the job kind of deal. You will save so much time allowing you to do other stuff; an atv is an inefficient waste of time (you work with what you have I get that but) when you look at what even a small tractor can do in a much shorter period of time it becomes a no brainer. - I now own a skid steer thanks to stuffing a log through the windshield and door of the once rented Skid Steer. It has been one of my best buys and beats the hell out of the atv. My plan now that the skid steer is paid off is to get a less expensive older tractor with enough hp to run a decent sized tiller. I have scrounge up enough old implements to do what I need often for free or scrap prices that I hope only to use my atv on the smallest of trails.

If you can manage it - A tractor .. you wont regret it

One other option which might save you money (though a bit inconvenient) is just to rent a tractor periodically.

 

[yoderjac]

I love having my 4 wheeler to zip around on but I have beaten it to death "trying" to do stuff with it... Most of us have tried the atv approach - I have a tiny offset disk for it that I paid more for than I could have bought a used 10 foot one on transports. My vote would be for a tractor, right tool for the job kind of deal. You will save so much time allowing you to do other stuff; an atv is an inefficient waste of time (you work with what you have I get that but) when you look at what even a small tractor can do in a much shorter period of time it becomes a no brainer. - I now own a skid steer thanks to stuffing a log through the windshield and door of the once rented Skid Steer. It has been one of my best buys and beats the hell out of the atv. My plan now that the skid steer is paid off is to get a less expensive older tractor with enough hp to run a decent sized tiller. I have scrounge up enough old implements to do what I need often for free or scrap prices that I hope only to use my atv on the smallest of trails.

If you can manage it - A tractor .. you wont regret it

One other option which might save you money (though a bit inconvenient) is just to rent a tractor periodically.

We have the 4x4 DK45 with cab and FEL as well as a small Ford 1300 for smaller jobs but we have about 20 acres we plant an maintain distributed across the farm. For some tasks I wish the DK45 was a DK65 instead. For other, the little Ford is perfect and much more efficient. I also have an older Kawasaki Prairie that I got primarily for hunting and deer retrieval. It has a Great Day's deer loader on the front and I rigged a large utility box and basket on the rear for transporting stuff. I end up using it for a lot of work though. I use it to transport ladders and stuff for deer stand and camera maintenance, planting trees, grafting, maintaining trees, and all kinds of similar tasks.

The last time I took the Prairie in for maintenance, they wanted more to get it up to snuff than it is worth. I think I am simply over loading it and asking it to do more than it was designed to do. I decided to have the minimum work done to keep it operating and started to look into replacing it with a Honda UTV. I have not pulled the trigger on that yet and it may be a while before I do.

This just goes to emphasize your point that pushing any piece of equipment beyond what it was designed to do will increase maintenance cost and reduce the lifespan. I'm not even dragging a disk or doing planting tasks with it. I did do some spraying with it but I could see how much stress 25 gal of water was putting on the suspension. I ended up buying a carryall from TSC and installing the boomless ATV sprayer on it. The ford does an even better job than the ATV for boomless tasks since it holds a constant speed and the weight is nothing for the ford.

Thanks,

Jack