What dwarf rootstock is best for a high density orchard?

[WTNUT]

I continue to think about planting a high density orchard. I like the idea of having one, but have a number of questions and issues. First, which rootstock. I don't think I want a trellis or support system. So does that really only leave G.30 Rootstock. I seem to think Bud 9 and G.11 need support. The next big issue for me is deer. I would almost certainly have to fence in the acre (assuming I start with an acre) to keep the deer out. I don't mind fencing in the acre, but what is the best way to maintain your ground cover in that acre? I suppose if the tree rows are mulched you could have grass or clover in between the rows which then needs mowed. Okay if I keep typing I will talk myself out of this AGAIN! Thoughts, ideas, suggestions?


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[greyphase]

From what I've read the following Geneva rootstocks are basically in the same size class as G30 which are considered semi-dwarf and free standing.
G202
G222
G969
G890
G210
Maya will be the guy who would know the ins and outs of high density orchards.

 

[wooduck]

We really like bud9 or g41 , both mature about the same size , and you never have to build a trellis but they will need a stake for life the reason trellis is built is overall probably cheaper with close spacing and branch training is easier with close wires , Lots of upsides if you want fruit fast , early bearing I'm of the age where the fruit has to come fast , easy pruning easy training easier to achieve complete spray coverage , much higher yield if take into consideration early years , easier picking, Downsides are high cost to plant it takes a lot of trees , higher labor initially , cost of trees with shipping can get be as low as under $10.00 when ordered in larger quantities .

We also have 700 plus trees on m26 its semi dwarf , Staked each one but ten years later they will free stand now ,, m26 were planted 12 feet between trees and 20 feet between rows , we top prune some now to control height to about 10 feet very hardy rootstock likes a lighter soil so may not be as good on clays

 

[chickenlittle]

Staking and trellis are just part of your decision making. How many varieties/trees and production do you want? What apple varieties do you want? How much maintenance, pruning, and spraying do you want to do? What is your soil? Any rootstock disease pressures that affect your choice- root rot? wooly aphids? suckering/fireblight? Are you buying grafted trees or grafting yourself? If grafting yourself, avoid virus sensitive rootstocks that might decline from having virus infected scionwood. Would you irrigate? If not irrigating, the semi-dwarf rootstocks would be better than dwarf at pulling in moisture through the roots when droughty. I think you need to know those answers and those answers will narrow you choice of rootstock.

Here is the latest Geneva rootstock comparison chart. http://www.ctl.cornell.edu/plants/GENEVA-Apple-Rootstocks-Comparison-Chart.pdf Anything in the M26 to M7 class probably won't need a stake but might benefit from it for a few years. G.30 is known for graft union breaks so staking it is a good idea. I have some young G.222 and G.890 trees that have been productive but I had to stake some.

If you don't want to baby the trees, you might be better off with the larger trees on rootstock compatible with your soil, B118, MM111, or MM106.

 

[WTNUT]

Chicken Little all very good points. Let me answer some of the questions. I have over 100 trees planted at the farm on B-118, M-111, and M7. As it stands those trees started as just a few to feed deer in foodplots. I now have 5 small orchards. I would like 3-4 heirloom varieties, but not sure which ones. I enjoy the maintenance and work with the most, BUT my work can present a problem with timing for spraying. Pruning and is not a problem. My soil is sandy loam generally good soil. My biggest concern is fireblight. I have not had problems with the other issues you list. I would like to graft them my self especially since there would be so many trees.


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[chickenlittle]

If you are only looking at a few varieties, you can choose them wisely for scab and fireblight resistant and most of your spraying need goes away. Since you have concerns about fireblight, it would be good to choose a rootstock that doesn't sucker and is resistant to fireblight. If it were me, I choose something from the Geneva series from G.222 or bigger.

I have a dozen or so on G.222 and it does sucker a little as indicated now on their chart. I'd probably use more G210 or G.890 if I were ordering mine now but G222 was more easily available when I ordered. Before getting set on one of the Genevas, look at Cummins, Treco, Willamette, and Copenhaven to see who carries which ones. If listed but out of stock, call and see if it will be available next year for someone ordering a 100 or 200. It could be spoken for going out several years. I'm not sure I've ever seen G.969 in stock although Cummins often lists a few grafted trees on it. The newer dwarf ones are most scarce.

If you aren't worried about drought, G41 and Bud9 would work fine with a conduit stake. I think you need good deer fencing for those.

 

[Maya]

If you are going to grow in a high density method, ie. tall spindle, and manipulate branches to keep them small and induce fruiting, I would suggest trellising them. I doubt you will get away with just a stake. They fruit too heavy and need more support.

I agree w/ Wooduck, B9 and g41 are good choices, I also like g16. I would caution if you are going to bud your own to make sure you have virus free budwood with the Genevas though. Overall I am most happy with B9. Least problems, and the root suckers are easy to pull.

 

[wooduck]

If contemplating g series rootstock be aware graft unions can be a little more brittle but will stabilize as the tree gets older , support is highly recommended , Another thought you can get massive production from an acre of high densities by year five . An old orchardist said to me once anybody can grow the damn things it takes a genius to turn them into money a plan will be needed . Do you have orchards in the area is there demand how will you develop a market more than likely the farmers market has several apple vendors, most small grocers have a supplier . What worked here for us is the specialized varieties most of ours are controlled releases but you don't need to go that route there are plenty of non patented varieties that will work but your market will dictate what will sell , Honeycrisp may lose some of its shine in the next few years lots of cheap apples are going to hit the supply chain soon . You don't want to sell apples for $16.00 bushel when wholesale specialty varieties sell for $60.00 bushel and up . Of coarse I'm assuming this project is about money if so plan carefully

 

[WTNUT]

Wooduck and Maya,

Thanks and thanks! I agree that a trellis system will be needed and really that isn't a problem. I was being a little sarcastic in the first post. I really don't have any orchards near by, but am not sure what my market is. I will say this the floor or bottom price for my market would be "deer apples". I will give some thought to my market this evening. While I do that what spacing do you recommend depending on the rootstock?


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