Tar River SAYA-507 No Till Drill

[Buckhunter10]

Well, today was round two of soybean planting. I experimented with top link adjustment and might have made some improvement. I also added 3 concrete blocks to the rear step plate for weight. I have found that when adjusting the top link to level the drill there is a fine line between leveling, coulter penetration and rear basket contact. The drill acts as a fulcrum, lifting the rear and removing down pressure to the openers. It is going to be interesting to see what my germination is going to look like, but it will not be a true representation, of single pass drilling, as it was a ongoing experiment.

I finished my field then tried to plant a long strip that consists of oats, clover and kale. That was a total bust. Next year I will terminate my rye earlier to give the roots more time to rot. In the fall when I sow rye in my soybeans I'm going to also sow diakon radishes. I've been doing this in other plots for a couple of years and my deer love them, and another plus is how they really penetrate deep and bust the soil, which will help drill penetration.

Now before you guys put yourself on suicide watch, please bear in mind I think my dirt is the worst case scenario. Its is heavy red clay with rocks, rocks, and more rocks. If you have decent dirt and moisture content I think it will no till beautifully. I know for a fact it drills beautifully in lightly till dirt. I planted in lightly till dirt last week, wheat, iron clay peas, and buckwheat and as of this morning it is popping up. My dirt is so hard groundhogs wont even stop and set up housekeeping. They just move into town where the asphalt and concrete is easier to dig in.

I have a couple of ideas to get rid of the closing fingers as they are as useless as VP Harris, our border czar. Agri Supply sells aftermarket cultipacker wheels which would add needed weight on the extreme rear of the drill and they will help closing the seed trench. The basket does a great job on tilled soil, but I think when no tilling in thatch it actually buoys up the drill because of its width, and two actual drive wheels would work better.

Awesome feedback. Thank you for taking the time sir.

 

[Foggy47]

Really good feedback, I am in SE Ohio - so we likely have similar soils (Appalachian region). That is also very interesting about the coulters wanting to ride higher - just curious, do think a top link adjustment could help at all?

The JD71 likely works so well due to the weight-to-opener distribution. That unit probably weighs 1800lbs and is concentrated on 3 openers vs. 10 via Tar River- just food for thought. This was one of my concerns with ordering my tar river (which hasn't arrived yet) when I compared it to 2 rows or other drills.

Thank you for sharing the feedback ACCMAN!

My thought was to run the drill through the standing vegetation ( reducing resistance on the ground via thatch for coulters and openers), and then rolling/cutting/crimping/spraying thatch after - anyone tried this with a tar river?

^ That is my plan as well - to drill a summer blend of seeds into standing rye and clover, before terminating the rye a few weeks later.

 

[Foggy47]

Just a head's up for anyone looking to buy a Tar River SAYQ 507 NT Drill. I saw one listed today in Facebook Marketplace at a dealer in Owatonna MN. IIRC the price was $5900. Just was listed two days ago. Hard to find right now.....so this would be worth looking into if you'r a buyer. (from the pic it could be a Kubota dealer?).

 

[ACCMan]

I tried drilling into standing oats, clover, and kale and it didn't work at all. The clay with all the living roots didn't give me any penetration. Hopefully it will work for you. I had 200lbs on the front and about 100lbs on the rear. My dirt is harder than a woodpeckers lips, and we've had rain.

 

[Foggy47]

I tried drilling into standing oats, clover, and kale and it didn't work at all. The clay with all the living roots didn't give me any penetration. Hopefully it will work for you. I had 200lbs on the front and about 100lbs on the rear. My dirt is harder than a woodpeckers lips, and we've had rain.

I been waiting for some reports on folks planting into heavy vegetation. Not sure if you had trouble with the vegetation or if it was the hard ground or a combination of both? My sand is easy to penetrate....but I have wondered how I will do in heavy rye. My concern is rye wrapping with that rear cage roller. I have about 300 lbs of cast weight on the front trays. No experience with hard ground. Wonder if getting rid of the front coulters would get more pressure on the openers for penetration? (dunno.....heard some say that on the Genesis drills)


EDIT: Was thinking about the suggestion to remove the "slicing" (front) coulters in last nights message above. Then thought about the misalignment issues (on my machine between the front slicers and the openers).....I had, when I got my drill. If they are misaligned this could cause more "float" to the blade by increasing surface area over multiple areas. I would think any weight you can add to those opener blades may help. Also adjusting the pre-load via the down-pressure spring adjustment holes too? (they have multiple adjustment holes). Is all your seed laying on top of the ground?

 

[ACCMan]

I been waiting for some reports on folks planting into heavy vegetation. Not sure if you had trouble with the vegetation or if it was the hard ground or a combination of both? My sand is easy to penetrate....but I have wondered how I will do in heavy rye. My concern is rye wrapping with that rear cage roller. I have about 300 lbs of cast weight on the front trays. No experience with hard ground. Wonder if getting rid of the front coulters would get more pressure on the openers for penetration? (dunno.....heard some say that on the Genesis drills)


EDIT: Was thinking about the suggestion to remove the "slicing" (front) coulters in last nights message above. Then thought about the misalignment issues (on my machine between the front slicers and the openers).....I had, when I got my drill. If they are misaligned this could cause more "float" to the blade by increasing surface area over multiple areas. I would think any weight you can add to those opener blades may help. Also adjusting the pre-load via the down-pressure spring adjustment holes too? (they have multiple adjustment holes). Is all your seed laying on top of the ground?

I'm getting seed in the ground, just not all of it. Removing the coulters would turn the drill into a minimum till drill, as the openers are not designed to bust the ground open without either a coulter slicing the ground first, or minimum tilling. When I sow rye into my beans in the fall I spread at least 100lbs/acre. Thats alot of roots growing that needs to die from spraying/rolling. I should know by this weekend what my germination is going to look like because we got 1 1/4" of rain yesterday, after a previous 1" in the beginning part of the week. One thing about the coulters, here all of the farmers use wavy coulters to break through and open this clay, and the and the TR coulters are smooth, which may be part of the problem. My JD71 has wavy coulters and they have no problem penetrating real deep. The next time I plant in heavy veg I may add more weight to the front.

One thing I would like to pass along my dealer shared. Make sure when you finish planting that you remove all of the seed from your drill. He has had several people that didn't ans squirrels chewed though the seed cups trying to get to the seed they can smell in the box. I bet the seed cups are not made of UV resistant plastic either, so if left stored in direct sunlight I bet the seed cups will crystalize and crack. I would at least put a tarp over the machine to keep the sunlight away from the cups. I bet replacing them could be very costly, if you can even get them with the supply issues we are facing. I just thought I would pass that along.

 

[Foggy47]

So....I just got done posting about a solution I am working on.....for the small seed box delivery on the SAYA drills. I put the info up on Facebook....as there is a good following there on this product. Check the Tar River SAYA 507 and 505 Drill site.

I show some pics and some text on how I intend to route the rear (small) seed box to a location behind the double disk openers....where they will not be buried so deep.....and will be packed by the rolling basket and those spring loaded plates. I think this will result in better germination for the small seeds. I plan to refine this in the next few days and will post better pics upon doing so. I think there are several owners here.....that may have an interest in this effort.

 

[ACCMan]

So....I just got done posting about a solution I am working on.....for the small seed box delivery on the SAYA drills. I put the info up on Facebook....as there is a good following there on this product. Check the Tar River SAYA 507 and 505 Drill site.

I show some pics and some text on how I intend to route the rear (small) seed box to a location behind the double disk openers....where they will not be buried so deep.....and will be packed by the rolling basket and those spring loaded plates. I think this will result in better germination for the small seeds. I plan to refine this in the next few days and will post better pics upon doing so. I think there are several owners here.....that may have an interest in this effort.

That is great and I'm very interested and will be in for the journey to make the drill better.

 

[buckdeer1]

I found that if you put moth balls in an old stocking and put in your seed bins usually mice won't bother

 

[Turkish]

I can’t for the life of me understand how a no-till drill can work without a dedicated press wheel behind each seed tube. The basket and flappers have always been a head scratcher for me.

 

[Foggy47]

I can’t for the life of me understand how a no-till drill can work without a dedicated press wheel behind each seed tube. The basket and flappers have always been a head scratcher for me.

That rolling basket seem to do a pretty fair job of fluffing the soil and stir and pack.....at least in my sandy loam. The flaps do smooth things somewhat......tho I do have concerns as I will operate in heavy rye straw soon. There is always room for improvement. Not sure if a two inch wide wheel with a small ground patch will do much better....but they have been around longer. The jury is out...and I’m trying to keep an open mind.

Worst case scenario would be to run over the areas planted with a cultipacker or roller crimped......and save ten thousand dollars for a little extra time. I can’t seem to pull the trigger on a more expensive drill at least at this point. The SAYA delivers allot of bang for the buck


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[SWIFFY]

Turkish I get what youre saying, I kind of feel the same way. But youre creating a small, small trench, some of which seals shut immediately after you pass thru. If there is an opening that isnt closed, its still going to seal shut as soon as it gets precipitation. Your seed is technically underground and it has a large area of soil/seed contact.

Its probably not perfect but when you look at what can be accomplished by broadcasting, this is checking off A LOT more boxes.

All that said... it still seems silly that they cant put some packing wheels on instead of those Mickey Mouse flaps... I dont understand it either.

 

[ACCMan]

I am looking at replacing the basket with packing wheels. This morning I remove the basket axle plastic cap that has the grease zerk in it. If you don't fill the cap with grease, just pumping a couple of squirts in a year does nothing. The axle ends appear to be six sided, like a nut, which baffles me why they would do that versus just a round axle. That adds a wrinkle to replacing the basket. I did discover that a John Deere 71 drive/closing wheel is the correct size to match the basket diameter, so that is a little progress.

I have bit the bullet and ordered wavy coulter discs to replace the bubble coulter discs, so one MOD at a time I guess.

 

[Foggy47]

I am looking at replacing the basket with packing wheels. This morning I remove the basket axle plastic cap that has the grease zerk in it. If you don't fill the cap with grease, just pumping a couple of squirts in a year does nothing. The axle ends appear to be six sided, like a nut, which baffles me why they would do that versus just a round axle. That adds a wrinkle to replacing the basket. I did discover that a John Deere 71 drive/closing wheel is the correct size to match the basket diameter, so that is a little progress.

I have bit the bullet and ordered wavy coulter discs to replace the bubble coulter discs, so one MOD at a time I guess.

Really liking the idea of the JD press wheels to pack the seeds and operate the drive Seems like a solid plan This morning I came up with a plan to alter my SAYA 505 to drop seeds directly behind the double disk openers or alternately reconnect to where they are currently located.....in just a few minutes time.
I’ve got my computer in the shop for another day so it’s gonna have to wait a day or two....but I think this will be a good mod for many others.....and it is similar to the way Great Plains distributes their small seed box. Stay tuned....pics and parts will follow in a new thread.

Imagine, if you will, the seed delivery of the Great Plains drills, and those big, beautiful JD press wheels on a $6000 no till SAYA drill......almost like the Twilight Zone. Yikes!

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[Foggy47]

I did not get very good results with my small seed box last year.....as I feel the small seed box will drop the seeds into the same v-slot as the large seed box. This bury's these small seeds too deep. I looked at the Great Plains / Landpride Drills and they more or less scatter the seeds BEHIND the disks atop the soil that is disturbed by the double disk openers....and it is simply packed into that soil by the wheels that follow the drill. Folks seem happy with these drills, so I figured I would give this a try.

Today I attached the hardware for ONE ROW as a trial fit. It will work super....IMO. I used a 1/4" bolt and nylock nut to attach to the hole found int the casting on the back of the opener housing. Perhaps I will use the carriage bolts that are intended for use with the Everbuilt clamps below.....but today I simply used bolts I had and they will work fine.

So....here is what I did to allow my SAYA 505 to deposit the seeds much like the GP/LP drills. Materials were bought from Home Depot. Enough EVERBUILT 1 5/8" Tension Bands for each opener. (find these in the fence department). Then in the electrical department get the CARLTON 1 1/4" Schedule 40 90 degree Rigid PVC conduit - with a bell end. Cut off the bell end and then cut the remaining part into two pieces. (for those of you guys from Kentucky.....that means one 90 degree conduit piece will make TWO parts for two rows - grin). The parts for a 5 Foot Saya cost me about $25 and I suppose for a 7 footer will run $35 or so. (Plus the bolts)

Now I can run my small seeds through the current Saya receiver and dump the seeds into the v-slot formed by the openers.....or deposit these small seeds BEHIND the slot in the soil worked by the openers and then cover these small seeds with the rolling basket and spring plate assembly as found on the Tar River SAYA product. Here are the pics.....easy mod / affordable too.

 

[ACCMan]

Good job, I also like your attached level.

 

[Foggy47]

Good job, I also like your attached level.

That level allows an instant check on what I am doing. Works pretty slick....and I can work my hydraulic top link and check the changes made. I do need to move it to the other side tho....as that is the door I use on my tractor....and it will make lees waling....grin.

At this point those drill tubes are just friction fit onto the 1 3/4" plastic tube. They seem quite tight....but I may add some clamps to them if required.

 

[Bearhtr67]

I just purchased a Tar River saya 507. I've heard that some quick hitches won't work. What one have you guys had success with?

 

[somich]

I just purchased a Tar River saya 507. I've heard that some quick hitches won't work. What one have you guys had success with?

I just bought a 505 and lift it with a speeco quick tach. I'm going to replace the top spacer sleeve with a longer one, the bolt for the hook catches on the bracket. Other than that it just needed the lower pins set in the other hole and it drops right in.

 

[goldenlab]

Has anyone had to move the 3pt hitch brackets in order to hook up to their tractor?