Stock Market is the bottom in?

[chickenlittle]

Tariffs are a lot like Ivermectin or cod liver oil. Each can be beneficial for a few things if dosed properly. There many other things they can't do but low doses probably won't cause serious side effects. But irresponsibly misusing huge doses will do permanent damage with lots of unintended consequences.

Stock market volatility is just the first sign of tariff damage. Bond markets made Trump blink but he's still convinced he's right. Treasury bonds aren't the safest haven any more. Interest rates will go up. Unemployment. Stagflation...except we get cheap gas and diesel without having to drill more. Business don't know how to invest in a way that Trump won't screw them in 2 days, 2 months, or 2 years. Xi isn't going call and beg for a deal. He sees Trump keeps blinking. He thinks he can rally the Chinese to fight Trump's aggression long enough to break Trump.

 

[Foggy47]

Because so-called "American" companies have moved overseas for dirt-cheap labor. Many of the cutting-edge companies that used to be here in the U.S.A. have moved operations to foreign countries for the afore-mentioned reason. And once those computer-driven machines were on other soil, did we really think they wouldn't steal the technology??? Years ago, I worked in a factory where they made aircraft engines, with sophisticated machinery. The companies that made those machines are offshore now, and the flood / race offshore was begun under Ronnie Reagan. He made a nationally-broadcast speech to the nation where he said, "We're going to change our economy from a manufacturing-based economy to a service-based economy." Deals were made by the Republicans in charge at that time to eliminate a lot of red tape that made it easier to set up shop in other countries for the dirt-cheap labor there.

People can claim all they want - but I watched it happen under Ronnie Reagan's watch. with Congressional republicans' help with the bills in congress that made it happen. Reagan championed a "globalization" of the economy ....... at the pushing of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce .... because those businesses wanted to shop the world for the cheapest labor. Sorry to all that believe it wasn't the Republican Party that shoved this on us here in the U.S.A. Facts are sometimes painful. I lived all of it - and watched it happen in real time. Some here aren't old enough to know the facts for real. Everything used to be made here - but that stopped when Ronnie Reagan sided with big business instead of the American workers. That's when I stopped voting strictly Republican - and why. They F-ed American workers over big-time.

There are lots of circumstances and reasons the American manufacturing was moved to asian sources. It happened over a number of different presidents and I agree that Regan was one of 'em. Labor and unions were no doubt a part of it. I well remember comparing costs of metal production here in the USA compared to China. There was no comparison....and many companies saw the handwriting on the wall.

Also energy costs are far higher in the USA than they were overseas. Then too....EPA, OSHA and many other standards are far lower overseas than in the USA. I remember seeing pics of aisan workers in shorts and bare feet that were casting molten metal. It was said that if one became injured on the job....they just would find another. Here....our workers were clad in fireproof suits and all the hazmat gear. Get hurt....and it may cost a fortune.

The USA was far higher cost in labor, insurance, benefits, grid power and other natural resources. I think in Regan's time.....it was somewhat obvious that the USA policies favored that we succeed in the race for the digital age.....and largely gave away our superiority in manufacturing in those times.....and we did fine with it. ....Tho (as usual) we went too far, and too long in this direction. It's past time we change course.

I think we have recognized this situation for 10 years or more....but nobody was DOING anything meaningful about it.....ENTER DJ TRUMP. Who has been saying the playing field was unfair for many, many decades. MAGA Donald.....MAGA.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Tariffs are a lot like Ivermectin or cod liver oil. Each can be beneficial for a few things if dosed properly. There many other things they can't do but low doses probably won't cause serious side effects. But irresponsibly misusing huge doses will do permanent damage with lots of unintended consequences.

Stock market volatility is just the first sign of tariff damage. Bond markets made Trump blink but he's still convinced he's right. Treasury bonds aren't the safest haven any more. Interest rates will go up. Unemployment. Stagflation...except we get cheap gas and diesel without having to drill more. Business don't know how to invest in a way that Trump won't screw them in 2 days, 2 months, or 2 years. Xi isn't going call and beg for a deal. He sees Trump keeps blinking. He thinks he can rally the Chinese to fight Trump's aggression long enough to break Trump.

Good post. Additionally this is one of the “problems” with capitalism and democracy. Our policies are at the mercy of elections. China doesn’t have that issue so they operate in a way that we essentially can’t. I applaud Trump for trying to break China. I hope they end up back in the dark ages when this is all said and done

 

[H20fwler]

China puts China first
England puts England first
France puts France first
Russia puts Russia first
Every country in the world puts their own interests first. Why is it so hard for some to grasp that America should put America first?

Many countries do not have the regulations for safety, environment and labor that we do…some of those rules are legit some are almost ridiculous. They do drive the cost of doing business here up trying to compete.
I personally am very skeptical of lobbyists and special interest groups courting favor with politicians. It breeds corruption and rots our political system, a very shady practice that has to many back door deals. Another reason we should have term limits on congress and senate just like we do presidents.

Unfair trade practices have cost the USA millions of jobs and made other countries wealthy. I for one do give a shit about where my tax dollars are going and being spent.
I don’t care if bringing business back to the USA will cost me a little more at the checkout counter if it strengthens our country, creates jobs here and makes our country more self sufficient.
I’m tired of cheap inferior Chinese products that could be made here better.

I’m 100% America First.

 

[bwoods11]

Tariffs are a lot like Ivermectin or cod liver oil. Each can be beneficial for a few things if dosed properly. There many other things they can't do but low doses probably won't cause serious side effects. But irresponsibly misusing huge doses will do permanent damage with lots of unintended consequences.

Stock market volatility is just the first sign of tariff damage. Bond markets made Trump blink but he's still convinced he's right. Treasury bonds aren't the safest haven any more. Interest rates will go up. Unemployment. Stagflation...except we get cheap gas and diesel without having to drill more. Business don't know how to invest in a way that Trump won't screw them in 2 days, 2 months, or 2 years. Xi isn't going call and beg for a deal. He sees Trump keeps blinking. He thinks he can rally the Chinese to fight Trump's aggression long enough to break Trump.

I think your prediction of high unemployment & stagflation will be wrong . I see the stock market as choppy for another 6 months ….

Then going up 20-30%. There’s 365 days in a year and if he announces a new trade deal for every country , he will have a positive announcement for 70+ days in the next year .

Let’s check back & see who is right!

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

There are lots of circumstances and reasons the American manufacturing was moved to asian sources. It happened over a number of different presidents and I agree that Regan was one of 'em. Labor and unions were no doubt a part of it. I well remember comparing costs of metal production here in the USA compared to China. There was no comparison....and many companies saw the handwriting on the wall.

Also energy costs are far higher in the USA than they were overseas. Then too....EPA, OSHA and many other standards are far lower overseas than in the USA. I remember seeing pics of aisan workers in shorts and bare feet that were casting molten metal. It was said that if one became injured on the job....they just would find another. Here....our workers were clad in fireproof suits and all the hazmat gear. Get hurt....and it may cost a fortune.

The USA was far higher cost in labor, insurance, benefits, grid power and other natural resources. I think in Regan's time.....it was somewhat obvious that the USA policies favored that we succeed in the race for the digital age.....and largely gave away our superiority in manufacturing in those times.....and we did fine with it. ....Tho (as usual) we went too far, and too long in this direction. It's past time we change course.

I think we have recognized this situation for 10 years or more....but nobody was DOING anything meaningful about it.....ENTER DJ TRUMP. Who has been saying the playing field was unfair for many, many decades. MAGA Donald.....MAGA.

Our standard of living is way different than those countries that are getting rich of of us with tariffs. And a good portion of that is because of the EPA, OSHA, and labor unions.

We don't have factories here with dormitories on the upper levels so you never have to commute to work, we don't get paid with company currency that can only be spent at the company store and we don't have safety nets to catch the employees jumping out the dorm windows to commit suicide.

Tragedies like the Triangle Shirtwaist fire don't exist in this country anymore. If you are injured on the job and it's the employers fault you're not kicked to the curb. You get compensated and the unsafe conditions are investigated and corrected.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

China puts China first
England puts England first
FranFra

China puts China first
England puts England first
France puts France first
Russia puts Russia first
Every country in the world puts their own interests first. Why is it so hard for some to grasp that America should put America first?

Many countries do not have the regulations for safety, environment and labor that we do…some of those rules are legit some are almost ridiculous. They do drive the cost of doing business here up trying to compete.
I personally am very skeptical of lobbyists and special interest groups courting favor with politicians. It breeds corruption and rots our political system, a very shady practice that has to many back door deals. Another reason we should have term limits on congress and senate just like we do presidents.

Unfair trade practices have cost the USA millions of jobs and made other countries wealthy. I for one do give a shit about where my tax dollars are going and being spent.
I don’t care if bringing business back to the USA will cost me a little more at the checkout counter if it strengthens our country, creates jobs here and makes our country more self sufficient.
I’m tired of cheap inferior Chinese products that could be made here better.

I’m 100% America First.

The idea that all Chinese products are cheap and inferior is wrong. If the products are made for an American company China will make them to whatever quality standard the American company wants. If they want cheap and inferior that's what the Chinese factory gives them.

On the other hand if the Chinese factory is making products for a Chinese company yeah the quality most likely won't be the same as American made.

 

[H20fwler]

The idea that all Chinese products are cheap and inferior is wrong. If the products are made for an American company China will make them to whatever quality standard the American company wants. If they want cheap and inferior that's what the Chinese factory gives them.

On the other hand if the Chinese factory is making products for a Chinese company yeah the quality most likely won't be the same as American made.

The idea that China is one of our biggest enemies is correct.
The idea that China is not to be trusted is correct.
The idea that China steals our tech is correct.
The idea that China spies on us is correct.
The idea that China makes knockoff American products and sells them all over the world is correct.
The idea that China sells the USA junk inferior steel and aluminum is correct.
The idea that China is not to be trusted EVER is correct.

 

[Angus 1895]

I remember a deal about counterfeit leupolds.

Some one, maybe more , claimed they tracked better and held zero better than the real ones. 24 hour campfire is where I read about it.

 

[buckvelvet]

Anyone have FRGE that shot up to 62% gain this morning before coming back down? We know we got some insiders like Foggy that has the same portfolio as Pelosi.

 

[jsasker007]

I've heard that Pelosi checks with Foggy before she buys anything.

 

[Foggy47]

I've heard that Pelosi checks with Foggy before she buys anything.

Fake News / Russian Disinformation / Soros is funding the rumor.

 

[wooduck]

The idea that all Chinese products are cheap and inferior is wrong. If the products are made for an American company China will make them to whatever quality standard the American company wants. If they want cheap and inferior that's what the Chinese factory gives them.

On the other hand if the Chinese factory is making products for a Chinese company yeah the quality most likely won't be the same as American made.

Corporations in the states are the ones screwing the USA ,, they order cheap made they get cheap made ,, dont ever think that China cannot compete in quality ,, USA corps are selling the cheap stuff because that is what makes stockholders more money ,, our own capitalism feeds the cycle ,, Heavy manufacturing will never be in the USA again ,, Look at any tooling shop in the USA every machine tool being used today is foreign made been this way almost 40 years now ,, The robot systems are all from over seas

 

[Foggy47]

Anyone else remember the products that were labeled “made in Japan” from back in the 50’s. At that time most Japanese products were cheap, easily broken and absolute junk. How about some of those early model Datsun and Toyota pickup trucks and cars? Horrible products that the paint would fall off and there’d be rusting out after a year of service. But, Japanese quality programs changed things immensely and in the 80’s and 90’s began showing our auto industry (for example) how they could build great products. I think the same can be said for China with just a bit more time. The USA has been sucking hind tit since these times……and unless we take some drastic actions we will continue our path to the bottom. MAGA

EDIT: In the 1970's I worked for a company called Elixir Industries that made and sold a wide range of products to the Recreational Vehicle and manufactured housing markets. In my part of the world....we sold nearly all that galvanized roofing that would go on the early model mobile homes. We also imported a number of other products. Millions of pounds annually of 30 gauge galvanized roofing (with a G90 coating no less). We would bring barge loads of large steel coils that originated at National Steel in Japan.....and we would roll-form it and assemble 3' wide panels into a single roof sheet all rolled up. I think American made steel was about 25% higher at that time.....and we were the low-cost supplier. So many things were going off shore in those times and beyond.....all due to lower wages, benefits, insurance, power costs, and regulation. Also.....the USA labor didn't have enough people to do all that needed to be done. At the same time the Information and digital age was upon us......and as said.....the US chose the digital revolution. Likely a smart play in those times......but as always.....we went too far.

I remember hiring "warm bodies" though the employment office.....and hoping 1 out of 3 might "stick". At that time (early 70"s) production was wild....and not enough labor could be hired......Then came the Arab oil embargo and OPEC......and OSHA and HUD programs, etc. Party was over.

 

[jsasker007]

Our country for the most part has become soft and lazy. Gonna be hard to get back on track especially with all of the technology that creates lazy people. Times are different for sure. It used to be that people would honor verbal contracts and a handshake meant something. Those days are gone in my opinion. The vast majority of today's youth has no idea what hard work is.

 

[BenA]

Make our prison system inmates work. Setup manufacturing there. Add in quality control that aren't inmates.

 

[Turkish]

Corporations in the states are the ones screwing the USA ,, they order cheap made they get cheap made ,, dont ever think that China cannot compete in quality ,, USA corps are selling the cheap stuff because that is what makes stockholders more money ,, our own capitalism feeds the cycle ,, Heavy manufacturing will never be in the USA again ,, Look at any tooling shop in the USA every machine tool being used today is foreign made been this way almost 40 years now ,, The robot systems are all from over seas

Do you hold any stocks?

 

[wooduck]

Do you hold any stocks?

Yes i do in american companys and have been an active stock holder for 40 plus years

 

[Foggy47]

Just spent a few minutes with google to see what pay and expenses are in China. Basically seems like most wages and expenses may be 1/4 or less of that in the USA. Tho....it has been rising faster than the USA.

Information Technology

Scientific research and technical services

Financial activities

Health care and social work

Supply of electricity, gas, steam and air conditioning

Culture, sports and entertainment

Education

Transportation, logistics and storage

Mining and quarrying

Wholesale and retail trade

Leasing and business services

Manufacturing

Construction

Water, sewerage and waste management

Fishing, agriculture and forestry

Accommodation and food

https://wagecentre.com/work/work-in-asia-and-oceania/salary-in-china. <------- Edit: The copy and paste was all screwed up. Do a search and read some interesting data here:

AVERAGE SALARY IN CHINA BY INDUSTRY*​

 

[Bill]

Make our prison system inmates work. Setup manufacturing there. Add in quality control that aren't inmates.

"Unicore federal prison systems". I couldn't compete with them in the electronic component world and they, not China, destroyed US furniture companies.